NY NY - Ellery, Rte 17, WhtFem 30-37, UP15489 193UFNY, GSW, poss from Canada or Europe, note, clothes, Dec'83

[Giuc0]

I remember Kerkow and that hijacking.

She's an interesting possibility. She's got those same high wing-like eyebrows. Moles can develop as we age, especially if there was a pregnancy as the autopsy suggests.

My issue is inability to find more about her. I have no idea where to start my research. Because we need to find more about the strength and qualities of her ties with France and Switzerland.

Also, when we try to match MPs, we have to be careful about the size clothing described in DN page:

Clothing: She was wearing a white V - neck camisole (inexpensive) that was found to have been made in Carpi, Italy and non exportable, a green, brown, red checked trench coat (expensive), reversible to olive drab wool, size 40 (this size is unavailable in Canada and USA, must be European, possibly Italian, as their sizes follow a different scale than European sizes), blue gray wool crew neck pullover, plaid wool skirt (handmade) various shades of brown blue and red.

RBBM and italics by me.

So, the angle of disappeared from South America can't work. Canadian First Nations can't work either because of clothing scale.
If our lady wore clothing size in North American scale, the Canada First Nation & the FBI wanted by the US wo any European ties would had worked.

Italian size scale is different: a French 38 size is an Italian 40 size. Source: a bathsuit bought in Italy when I was a teenager.
Now, with Zara, Mango and such, you have all the different scales on the tag.

We also have to be careful because a size 38 in those days is now a 36 size nowadays.
Same number, but different measures.

On the top of that, with a brand X, you wear a 36 size and with another brand, you wear a 40 size. So, it doesn't necessarily tell about a lady's build.
I have no clue if it worked like this in the '70s and '80 though.

I don't know exactly what scale followed South American ladies clothing size in those days. But nowadays, South American ladies clothing size follow the American scale.

Italy boarder is at 20km from France (my aunt lives there currently) and Ticino in Switzerland is nearby the Italian lakes. Ticino canton official language is Italian, so finding clothing in Italian size in Ticino canton is within reasonable possibilities.

I think that the best way to rule in or out a potential match is: "Is the person would have access to European sized clothing without hassle?"
Because in those days, you couldn't easily buy Canada clothing on EBay or whatever Internet shop.

For the blood group and ethnic probabilities, I am not comfortable at relying on them as we can get many, many false negative.
My mom pops in my mind (she's A+), and she is of Northern Africa descent.
I think that if blood group is not said in a potential match record, I won't speculate on it because it is rifed with wrong possibilities!

I think that this small detail can avoid us plenty of blatant rules-out.

 

[Giuc0]

Algeria uses the European clothing size scale: Pantalon - Slim à ceinture tissu - Noir
It's a link from an Algerian shopping site, so you can have a clue about the usual size scaling available. Not asking you to buy their clothes, nope!

As Algeria belonged to France until 1962, it's logical that when buying clothing, she'd easily found clothing of European size.
Italian sizes is much more doubtful.

 

[Giuc0]

About Kerkow: How Coos Bay’s ‘All-American girl’ became a daring skyjacker, then disappeared into 1970s underground
She lived in Paris, then said to her bf she was going to Switzerland to never been seen again.

She was a member of Black Panthers Algiers, Algeria.

Traveling to Canada with a fake passport, going to Italy to buy clothing is within the reasonable range of possibilities.

 

[Giuc0]

@Bit of hope I made a break before going back to the case.
By having a break, I could come up with the detail about clothing scale size, which also ruled out plenty of my own hypothesis.

Having a break with a pet case is ok.
By having a break for a brain cell refresher, you can come up with new leads.

You don't have to give up when you're exhausted, stressed, with a plate way too full...

You are perfectly within your right to have a break because you are overwhelmed.
Let call this break "a case holidays" if you like it.

Having a holiday because you feel overwhelmed ≠ giving up.

When you are on holidays from your job, does it mean that you completely quit your job?
Answer: not at all.

You take holidays for recharging your brain cells battery and when you are back to your job, you are fully productive.


Same with our UID JD. You are entitled to have a break, and breaks are mandatory for sleuthing efficiently.

I've completely understand that you've lost your patience with me because you were overwhelmed.
I thanked you because you expressed your needs without blowing a gasket (US expression), or losing your temper in Europe.
After your message, the "Thank you, BOH" was because I was grateful to you, without any irony.
I hate requesting something implicitely, and I thanked you because that's exactly how I felt towards you: thankful for expressing your needs and your respect.

When you apologised, I was actually jaw dropped, wondering "Why does BOH apologise to me? I don't understand Oo"

Never forget I love you for doing what you do!

As we say in France, you've already preached a converted
It means you were trying to convince me about your thesis.... I was already agreeing with you :-D
So, you were into a job... you already accomplished :-D

If I have a problem, am angry at you... I'd told you directly.

If I were ironic, I would had put a negative emoticon.

If I leave the sentence blank, it is a simple thank you without needing to write a whole 240-pages novel ;-)
Writing a novel for thanking you is, as we say in France, killing a bee with a boxing glove (an expression meaning using disproportionate ways for achieving your goal).

 

[Giuc0]

The more I think about our lady and similar cases, the more I believe that clothing scale size is a detail making or breaking a potential match.
Especially for women, as clothing size scales are very heterogenous for ladies.
I haven't seen such a huge difference with men clothing scale sizes, but I can be completely wrong and it stands being corrected.


For example, if a Caucasian female 30-40 UID autopsy says that "wisdom tooth antemortem removed" while a 45yo Caucasian MP female has her whole wisdom teeth on her dental chart = major inconsistency which rules out our potential match.

Similar reasoning applies for women clothing scale: if our potential match has never travelled beyond USA and Canada while our UID wears clothing with European/Italian clothing size scale, it disproves our potential match. You can comfortably rule her out.

OTOH, if our potential match wanted by the FBI is known have ties with Europe and Middle-Eastern countries, then it's a potential rule-in.


This reasoning works well for pre-Internet cases, before mid-2000.

It can work for current cases, but with plenty of pitfalls nowadays.

 

[Giuc0]

BOH, I found the lady you have brought up and is wanted by the FBI.
DONNA JOAN BORUP | Federal Bureau of Investigation

My problem with this possibility is : "Borup has ties to Pennsylvania, New Jersey, North Carolina, and Canada"
RBBM

The issue is that the clothing size scaling doesn't match at all: Borup would wear American size clothing.

Our UID wears European, possibly Italian, clothing size.

Donna Borup - KeyWiki

Although she was active against apartheid, she was not known to travel outside of Americas and Cuba.


Two Women ‘Terrorists' Still Evade Justice Decades Later: FBI
She is believed to be hiding in Central America.

May 19th Communist Organization - Wikipedia
Except Borup, all rioters are now serving their sentence.

Terrorists Bombed the Capitol Building in the Early '80s. Why Don't More People Know About It? | Washingtonian (DC)
Colored Borup photo taken in 1981.

 

[Bit of hope]

BOH, I found the lady you have brought up and is wanted by the FBI.
DONNA JOAN BORUP | Federal Bureau of Investigation

My problem with this possibility is : "Borup has ties to Pennsylvania, New Jersey, North Carolina, and Canada"
RBBM

The issue is that the clothing size scaling doesn't match at all: Borup would wear American size clothing.

Our UID wears European, possibly Italian, clothing size.

Donna Borup - KeyWiki

Although she was active against apartheid, she was not known to travel outside of Americas and Cuba.


Two Women ‘Terrorists' Still Evade Justice Decades Later: FBI
She is believed to be hiding in Central America.

May 19th Communist Organization - Wikipedia
Except Borup, all rioters are now serving their sentence.

Terrorists Bombed the Capitol Building in the Early '80s. Why Don't More People Know About It? | Washingtonian (DC)
Colored Borup photo taken in 1981.

I can go along with that...also I never found any evidence that this woman had children.

 

[Giuc0]

Which adds as an element for a rule-out.
Now, looking at Yellow Notices on Interpol by citizenship and Female search operators.

In countries using European size scale for women, or very similar.

 

[Giuc0]

Yellow Notices are a dead end

 

[Melt71]

What about an American or Canadian that lived in Europe as an expatriate for a period before returning home and therefore European UID and clothing. But would show as a local MP not on any overseas MP site?

 

[Giuc0]

Could work :-D but the issue is that the current databases for this are clearly a dead end

 

[Giuc0]

The Charley Project database with "Female" and "Circumstances: Europe" gave me 13 results.

No result is probative for our JD: they are either missing after 1983, either not the right race, too young or too old. Or age, race, missing year together don't match.

Doe Network was also a dead end.

Yesterday, I combed the Belgium police site for missing persons, but to no avail.

I wish I were able to comb police databases in Swedish, Danish, German, Portughese and Baltic languages but alas! It's beyond the scope of my abilities.

I can comb the Spanish police public database for missing persons and the alerts from SOS Desaparecidos (the Spanish association).
The SOS Desaparecidos website is not exactly user-friendly for chronological database search: they allow you to search by province, but I have been unable to search by year.

 

[Bit of hope]

The Charley Project database with "Female" and "Circumstances: Europe" gave me 13 results.

No result is probative for our JD: they are either missing after 1983, either not the right race, too young or too old. Or age, race, missing year together don't match.

Doe Network was also a dead end.

Yesterday, I combed the Belgium police site for missing persons, but to no avail.

I wish I were able to comb police databases in Swedish, Danish, German, Portughese and Baltic languages but alas! It's beyond the scope of my abilities.

I can comb the Spanish police public database for missing persons and the alerts from SOS Desaparecidos (the Spanish association).
The SOS Desaparecidos website is not exactly user-friendly for chronological database search: they allow you to search by province, but I have been unable to search by year.

I searched about every European missing persons site in the past. For now I will search the Swedish site again, because they could have added people in all of this databases since my search.

 

[Bit of hope]

Just a possible...
Solbritt Johansson
Missing from Sweden. I'm not looking very very narrow right now. Some words have a translation that wouldn't win the best translation price...but alas it's from Swedish to Dutch to English. Sadly no stats.

Disappeared on October 11, 1968. Age at disappearance: about 20. Resident of: Bollebygd. Last seen in: Gothenburg. description: Solbritt was probably last seen around 6 p.m. on October 11, 1968 at St. Sigfridsplan in Gothenburg, where she was waiting for a lift to Bollebygd. Earlier that day, she had gone to Gumpert's bookstore on Södra Hamngatan in Gothenburg to buy books, before the course started at Wendelsberg Folk High School in Mölnlycke, where she was going to study. Solbritt worked at the infection house <??> in Gothenburg. She was also involved with young people who used drugs and therefore moved to Haga, where many young people were present. She was very involved with these young people and was therefore called the "angel of drugs". The drug suppliers and retailers in the area did not appreciate her commitment and efforts to sober up youth. One person told police that he was present when Solbritt died of an overdose and was then driven to a river where her body was dumped. This information has not been verified. Solbritt's cohabiting and hubby abused drugs and it has been speculated that he had to do with her disappearance. Several witnesses claimed to have seen Solbritt in the years since her disappearance, but this too has not been verified.

This file is made on May 22, 2020.

 

[Giuc0]

I searched about every European missing persons site in the past. For now I will search the Swedish site again, because they could have added people in all of this databases since my search.

Combing the Spanish official database for missing persons .: Error 403 :.
The English version doesn't work well, I'm ok with Spanish.
It is quite a recent site, no more than 5 years from now.
Similar to NamUS but for Spain.

AFAIK, it was not available yet when we started working on our JD.

As soon as I have finished scouring the Spanish official database, I'll look at the lady you suggested me.
Works for you?

 

[Giuc0]

Just a possible...
Solbritt Johansson
Missing from Sweden. I'm not looking very very narrow right now. Some words have a translation that wouldn't win the best translation price...but alas it's from Swedish to Dutch to English. Sadly no stats.

Disappeared on October 11, 1968. Age at disappearance: about 20. Resident of: Bollebygd. Last seen in: Gothenburg. description: Solbritt was probably last seen around 6 p.m. on October 11, 1968 at St. Sigfridsplan in Gothenburg, where she was waiting for a lift to Bollebygd. Earlier that day, she had gone to Gumpert's bookstore on Södra Hamngatan in Gothenburg to buy books, before the course started at Wendelsberg Folk High School in Mölnlycke, where she was going to study. Solbritt worked at the infection house <??> in Gothenburg. She was also involved with young people who used drugs and therefore moved to Haga, where many young people were present. She was very involved with these young people and was therefore called the "angel of drugs". The drug suppliers and retailers in the area did not appreciate her commitment and efforts to sober up youth. One person told police that he was present when Solbritt died of an overdose and was then driven to a river where her body was dumped. This information has not been verified. Solbritt's cohabiting and hubby abused drugs and it has been speculated that he had to do with her disappearance. Several witnesses claimed to have seen Solbritt in the years since her disappearance, but this too has not been verified.

This file is made on May 22, 2020.

From what I've seen, her circumstances point out that she died nearby where she disappeared.
Even without a body, she is more likely than not unidentified in Sweden.

Our JD didn't have any sign of having a drug history on her autopsy, while your MP was well known for being into drugs.

 

[Bit of hope]

From what I've seen, her circumstances point out that she died nearby where she disappeared.
Even without a body, she is more likely than not unidentified in Sweden.

Our JD didn't have any sign of having a drug history on her autopsy, while your MP was well known for being into drugs.

She wasn't into drugs, she helped young people to stay or get of drugs. Several witnesses claimed to have seen Solbritt in the years since her disappearance, but this too has not been verified.

 

[Giuc0]

She wasn't into drugs, she helped young people to stay or get of drugs. Several witnesses claimed to have seen Solbritt in the years since her disappearance, but this too has not been verified.

So, it was a lost in translation moment.

Where were these sightings placed? What year more or less?

Do we know if she had given birth or not?

After what you've just told me, I need more information before ruling her in or out.

 

[Bit of hope]

I was hoping Chi l'a visto added older cases, I checked, they didn't. Then I looked into Italian people missing abroad. Couldn't find a anybody who would match. Besides a journalist who went missing in Libanon, but she had a totally different nose.

 

[Bit of hope]

So, it was a lost in translation moment.

Where were these sightings placed? What year more or less?

Do we know if she had given birth or not?

After what you've just told me, I need more information before ruling her in or out.

I don't know more, she went missing in 1968....she could have had a livetime after that...with all sorts of things happened.