Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #1 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[Reannan]

Here is some more information about the basement they are digging in:

"Investigators believe that the basement, which housed a wood shop and art-storage space at the time of Etan’s disappearance, was also a known meeting place for sexual liaisons at the time.
In the 1990s, the basement housed the Leslie/Lohman Gay Art Foundation, which later became the Leslie/Lohman museum, and it is currently used as the museum’s storage space."

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/19/f-b-i-renews-search-for-etan-patz-in-soho-basement/

 

[norest4thewicked]

I am not really sure if Ramos had anything to do with that building or not.... I just can't find any reference to it, and I don't recall ever reading anything associated with that location and Ramos. One of the news reports I saw on TV tonight, said something along the lines of "that basement was 'known as an area for sex'". WHAT??? That caught my interest because that can mean a lot of different things... truck stops are known for hook-ups for gay sex.... certain street corners for heterosexual sex... - certain locations for swingers... WHAT WAS THAT BASEMENT known for?? And.... why was it not searched more thoroughly when Etan went missing? Did anyone else see a news report about the basement being 'known as an area for sex'? I will try to find a link. I KNOW I heard it because I poured salsa on the counter instead of on my fajita!

Yeah...that sounds pretty bizarre and you would think that LE would have considered that area as a potential spot for Etan just because of that nasty coincidence.

 

[passionflower]

Here is some more information about the basement they are digging in:

"Investigators believe that the basement, which housed a wood shop and art-storage space at the time of Etan’s disappearance, was also a known meeting place for sexual liaisons at the time.
In the 1990s, the basement housed the Leslie/Lohman Gay Art Foundation, which later became the Leslie/Lohman museum, and it is currently used as the museum’s storage space."

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/19/f-b-i-renews-search-for-etan-patz-in-soho-basement/

whoa!:what:

 

[epiphany]

The new investigation is also reexamining the decades old assumption that Patz was abducted by convicted pedophile Jose Ramos...

Today's probe, which was reopened by Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance in 2010, began with an interview of Miller.

Based on that interview, law enforcement sources said, a dog was brought to the scene as a warrant was drawn up. The cadaver dog got a positive hit for possible human remains. The warrant was served and the preparations for digging began.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/fresh-search-etan-patz-york-boy-vanished-33/story?id=16171740#.T5C4W45ivs0

 

[norest4thewicked]

Here is some more information about the basement they are digging in:

"Investigators believe that the basement, which housed a wood shop and art-storage space at the time of Etan’s disappearance, was also a known meeting place for sexual liaisons at the time.
In the 1990s, the basement housed the Leslie/Lohman Gay Art Foundation, which later became the Leslie/Lohman museum, and it is currently used as the museum’s storage space."

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/19/f-b-i-renews-search-for-etan-patz-in-soho-basement/

Well then...I guess we now know the kind of sexual liasons that they had there...

 

[passionflower]

What do we know about the perp they are looking at now?

 

[wfgodot]

What do we know about the perp they are looking at now?

All I've seen are his name, his age, the fact he's not under arrest, that the police are in contact with him, that he has always been cooperative, that he was a friend or acquaintance of the Patz family in 1979, and that Etan was allowed to help him in his wood shop, to clean things up, etc., and for which he was paid a dollar each time.

 

[passionflower]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...hool-in-1979/2012/04/19/gIQAbfzGUT_story.html

sorry if this was posted before.

 

[epiphany]

Here is some more information about the basement they are digging in:

"Investigators believe that the basement, which housed a wood shop and art-storage space at the time of Etan’s disappearance, was also a known meeting place for sexual liaisons at the time.
In the 1990s, the basement housed the Leslie/Lohman Gay Art Foundation, which later became the Leslie/Lohman museum, and it is currently used as the museum’s storage space."

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/19/f-b-i-renews-search-for-etan-patz-in-soho-basement/

We at the Leslie-Lohman Museum of Gay & Lesbian Art would like to extend our deepest sympathies to the Patz family regarding the disappearance of their son Etan on May 25, 1979.

With the news of the reopening the investigation due to new information, the FBI is conducting a thorough investigation of Etan’s disappearance, and although there is an annex storage space to the Museum on Prince Street where Etan was last seen, at the time of his disappearance the space had no affiliation with the Museum.

However, we will provide our full cooperation to the FBI to help them achieve resolution to this case.

http://www.galleristny.com/2012/04/...-search-we-will-provide-our-full-cooperation/

 

[wfgodot]

This was an interesting tidbit from the Village Voice link I posted earlier; the info was first pubished in the New York Post; however, the VV reporter couldn't confirm it through its own sources:

The New York Post reports that after being presented with the scent evidence, Miller asked investigators "what if the body was moved?" However, our source could not confirm that report

.
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/04/etan_patz_disap.php

 

[Kat]

In 1979, did the police know the wood shop/art storage basement was indeed a location where sexual liasons took place?

If so, why did they not dig then - they'd considered it. Were they really so trusting to let Etan's parents alibi for the family friend, without taking further action other than their word?

I know that the general feeling about child kidnappings then was that strangers were the likely suspects. But what we're seeing today just boggles me.

WFG I'm not so sure that LE didn't investigate OM based on what the parents reportedly said about him.

There is a video backthread where former LE is speaking to local news (I bumped the link for the video at the bottom of the link) and that former LE was in the apartment soon after Etan went missing.

What I'm taking from all the articles I read today and some I read from back in the 80's (located Ramos' address from back then but didn't read most of the archived articles) is that OM was on the suspect list. In fact, there were quite a few on that list. But, only Ramos' name has been published before now because he was the lead suspect.

(My own thoughts: Which makes sense if you look at this case cirumstantially he looks guilty, a judge thought so too)

But, back to the basement and the search prior. This former LE said that the search warrant (and I'm thinking also the affidavit for the warrant) would name exactly why they would be searching here now.

He said IIRC that they did search this building at first but a new concrete floor had been poured. They wanted to take it up.

OM reportedly said that he had just poured that floor and if they did that they would have to pay for it.

Then there was a general discussion of having enough information to obtain a warrant to remove that concrete floor in that basement based on what info they had at the time and that it would have to be a warrant issued to the owner of the bldg etc...

Which to be honest, makes sense. We see that now. If there isn't enough probable cause they can't get a warrant. They just can't. Not to go in and destroy someone's property based on a hunch.

He also said that there more than likely was new information that lead to this digging, which IMHO was probably uncovered when the case was reopened. It looks to me like they've been going over all the case files with a fine tooth comb. KWIM?

I also read an article today and IIRC it was one you posted WFG (from the village voice? might not have been though) LE has conducted interviews this week in that neighborhood and it was reported in an article that it was Etan's Mother who directed LE in OM's direction.

Just my take on things as of right now. Could always change when we get more info. All JMHO.

 

[wfgodot]

SoHo '79 - good context about the neighborhood at the time of Etan's disappearance:

Amid Inquiry, SoHo Recalls a Less-Fashionable Past (New York Times)

 

[PaperTigers]

I'm excited by the news. I've long been interested in this case, and never thought the day would come with a significant lead like this! I'm just wondering how they could've missed that building, given how thorough they were, supposedly, in searching the area soon after Etan's disappearance. Did the source provide the tip, coming out of nowhere recently?

 

[epiphany]

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/04/etan_patz_disap.php

One of those leads came from Patz's mother, Julie, who told authorities they should speak with Miller.

After speaking with Miller, law enforcement officials took "scent pads" -- which allows investigators to "collect scent evidence from hard to access places" without destroying any other evidence, like fingerprints -- to the basement of the building at 127 Prince Street, where Miller had a workshop at the time of Patz's disappearance.

The scent pads from the basement were then taken to a cadaver dog, who got a "hit," which indicates human remains are -- or were -- somewhere in the basement.

 

[passionflower]

Additionally, sources say the "target" of the investigation is a neighborhood handyman named Othneil Miller, 75, who would often pay Patz a few dollars to help him out around his shop.
BBM...........other victims???
when I think wood shop, I think of saws, coffin etc.

 

[wfgodot]

I also read an article today and IIRC it was one you posted WFG (from the village voice? might not have been though) LE has conducted interviews this week in that neighborhood and it was reported in an article that it was Etan's Mother who directed LE in OM's direction. .

Thanks. Hadn't seen the specific thing on the poured concrete; did read something about new drywall going up just after the disappearance. Don't think it was the VV articles though that said the mother pointed the finger. I saw a Wall Street Journal article above that indicated that the parents had vouched for Mr Miller.

ETA
WRONG AGAIN AM I! You're right. epiphany just posted above the specific sentence from the Voice blog.

 

[Kat]

I saw that tidbit too that you posted above WFG. If that was indeed said that would be enough to get a warrant. and pronto IMHO.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Lisa Cohen could not answer my question
3 years ago.
Because the answer was not in her book.
She never had the opportunity to interview the "handyman"

 

[Kat]

Thanks. Hadn't seen the specific thing on the poured concrete; did read something about new drywall going up just after the disappearance. Don't think it was the VV articles though that said the mother pointed the finger. I saw a Wall Street Journal article above that indicated that the parents had vouched for Mr Miller.

So sorry! My apologies also to the member who posted this link backthread as well.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/fbi_da_searching_soho_building_55Zi00yZZdehVQrhqYsoPM

Investigators recently interviewed Patz’s mother Julie, who told them they should talk to Miller, of Quincy Street in Brooklyn.

 

[passionflower]

Could Miller after 33 years of getting away with his crime (if he did it) at his age start to say 'odd' things that lead to the tip? gut feelings of LE?