Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #1 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[wfgodot]

A good thorough recounting of the case and the day's activities here, at CNN International:

Feds scour basement where Etan Patz met carpenter, sources say

 

[Reannan]

One more post before I go to bed and try to forget about this case for a while... does the child in the picture from the SoHo Playgroup in the 1970's IN THE BASEMENT they are currently tearing apart, not look like Etan?? Am I crazy? I honestly welcome your opinions... that is why I am posting the comparison....

 

[wfgodot]

Since we're discussing - and rightly - the lessons learned in the intervening years since Etan disappeared and the unlikelihood of involvement in this crime by those participating in the gallery space, the real taboo still looms: that we have also learned, since 1979, that family involvement is the most likely factor when children disappear.

I certainly don't think that that was the case here. But it's curious - if understandable - that we've sort of tip-toed around even a general discussion of that topic in the Patz case. If the case occurred today? I think most would first look at the family.

 

[wfgodot]

One more post before I go to bed and try to forget about this case for a while... does the child in the picture from the SoHo Playgroup in the 1970's IN THE BASEMENT they are currently tearing apart, not look like Etan?? Am I crazy? I honestly welcome your opinions... that is why I am posting the comparison....

Yeppers, it does resemble him.

 

[carole]

One more post before I go to bed and try to forget about this case for a while... does the child in the picture from the SoHo Playgroup in the 1970's IN THE BASEMENT they are currently tearing apart, not look like Etan?? Am I crazy? I honestly welcome your opinions... that is why I am posting the comparison....

BBM

No you aren't crazy!! I thought the same thing when I saw the picture.

 

[i.b.nora]

Soho in the late sixties and into the seventies was home to a broad mix of people. There were dozens of young artists types because that is where they could rent huge loft spaces to serve as both studio and home. Where the artists live is where many galleries started moving to.

The Stonewall Riots in Greenwich Village took place on June 27, 1969. The Gay Pride Movement was basically born at that time. Some gay folks made their homes in Soho. They weren't skulking around in basements in 1979.

Soho attracted artsy types, actors, dancers, painters, musicians, filmmakers and photographers among others. There was a large Sicilian/Italian population with their 'clubs', that still resided in Soho at that time. It was an exciting place to be, before all the upscale people moved in.

Just some personal thoughts on the area at about that time.

 

[carole]

Since we're discussing - and rightly - the lessons learned in the intervening years since Etan disappeared and the unlikelihood of involvement in this crime by those participating in the gallery space, the real taboo still looms: that we have also learned, since 1979, that family involvement is the most likely factor when children disappear.

I certainly don't think that that was the case here. But it's curious - if understandable - that we've sort of tip-toed around even a general discussion of that topic in the Patz case. If the case occurred today? I think most would first look at the family.

When my now 39 and 31 year old sons were young, it was all about stranger danger. Now we know that so many abductions are by people known by the family/children. And yes, even quite often, family.

I'm sure the family was looked at to some degree. But there were two credible witnesses who saw Etan on his way to the bus stop that day which seemed to rule family out.

 

[epiphany]

Soho is just south of Greenwich Village-in 1979 the Village already had a vibrant gay community. There would be nothing slightly odd about any LGBT owners providing space to a parent-led cooperative playgroup in Soho even back then. That area of Soho was an artists community.

 

[wfgodot]

Soho in the late sixties and into the seventies was home to a broad mix of people. There were dozens of young artists types because that is where they could rent huge loft spaces to serve as both studio and home. Where the artists live is where many galleries started moving to.

The Stonewall Riots in Greenwich Village took place on June 27, 1969. The Gay Pride Movement was basically born at that time. Some gay folks made their homes in Soho. They weren't skulking around in basements in 1979.

Soho attracted artsy types, actors, dancers, painters, musicians, filmmakers and photographers among others. There was a large Sicilian/Italian population with their 'clubs', that still resided in Soho at that time. It was an exciting place to be, before all the upscale people moved in.

Just some personal thoughts on the area at about that time.

Yes, even in dear old Kansas, I followed SoHo and the Village via a pal's subscription to the Soho Weekly News and both of our subs to the Village Voice. Fascinating subject, the changes in a neighborhood over the course of the years in a major city.

 

[karen7868]

Could Miller after 33 years of getting away with his crime (if he did it) at his age start to say 'odd' things that lead to the tip? gut feelings of LE?

BBM. Wow, my first thought was "death bed confession" perhaps by Miller?????

I mean, they have swarmed this place, so they must have a credible lead.

I am getting caught up on this case after seeing it reported on dailymail and Nancy Grace. I was 10 years old at the time so I don't remember hearing about this; however, I do remember the milk cartons. I only heard Ramos mentioned, so this is the first I am reading about this Miller.

So incredibly sad for the parents IF this man IS making a deathbed confession and they now realize he has gone free all these years after vouching for him since he was a family friend.

Oh my, off to get caught up now. Prayers for Etan and his family.

 

[epiphany]

Investigators have long eyed the basement with curiosity because it can be accessed from the street on the boy's route to school. At the time, the space was being used as a workshop by a neighborhood handyman who was thought to have been friendly with Etan.

FBI investigators have interviewed the man several times over the years. Investigators questioned him again recently, and as a result of those discussions decided to refocus their attention on the building, according to the law enforcement official.

The official spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. Two other law enforcement officials also confirmed that an FBI dog had indicated the scent of human remains in the space.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/national_world&id=8628881

 

[karen7868]

:woohoo:

One more post before I go to bed and try to forget about this case for a while... does the child in the picture from the SoHo Playgroup in the 1970's IN THE BASEMENT they are currently tearing apart, not look like Etan?? Am I crazy? I honestly welcome your opinions... that is why I am posting the comparison....

Sure looks like him to me. This one also (5th child from left). So, are these pictures taken in the basement they are now searching? It looks narrow, possibly like the 13' mentioned in MSM, along with the "brick" walls that have been covered with drywall they are tearing down.

 

[carole]

:woohoo:

Sure looks like him to me. This one also. So, are these pictures taken in the basement they are now searching? It looks narrow, possibly like the 13' mentioned in MSM.

View attachment 21671

It might be the same spot, or maybe the basement was separated into several spaces, but it is the same building.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

BBM

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Etan was an only child. I tried googling but couldn't find anything one way or the other.

Etan's parents had 2 other children when Etan went missing on Friday, May 25. 1979. A boy that was older than Etan and a girl, I think 2 years old at that time. The Father of Etan is a photographer. He produced his own son's Missing Posters. The parents for 33 years have stayed in the home they lived in with Etan - keeping the same phone number - Etan knew it by heart.

Knowing the parents can see and hear this commotion - from their home on the third floor where Etan's Mother watched from the balcony as he walked to the bus stop that day. And the realization he has possibly been so close to home for 33 years. They never moved in hopes Etan would come home. I only hope they cannot hear the jack-hammers. My heart breaks.

 

[helpful]

It feels somehow wrong to say that I "hope" it is a six-year-old child's body that has lain buried in the basement of a building for 33 years, but honestly, I do hope for the sake of his family that Etan has been found.

How awful if he's been this close to home for all these years.

(And if there is a body and it turns out to belong to a person who isn't Etan, I am glad that another family's wondering will end soon.)

 

[helpful]

Since we're discussing - and rightly - the lessons learned in the intervening years since Etan disappeared and the unlikelihood of involvement in this crime by those participating in the gallery space, the real taboo still looms: that we have also learned, since 1979, that family involvement is the most likely factor when children disappear.

I certainly don't think that that was the case here. But it's curious - if understandable - that we've sort of tip-toed around even a general discussion of that topic in the Patz case. If the case occurred today? I think most would first look at the family.

If I recall correctly from my reading, Etan's father was pretty thoroughly vilified by the investigative team for a period in a "we know you did it" fashion.

 

[meganx3xo]

Since we're discussing - and rightly - the lessons learned in the intervening years since Etan disappeared and the unlikelihood of involvement in this crime by those participating in the gallery space, the real taboo still looms: that we have also learned, since 1979, that family involvement is the most likely factor when children disappear.

I certainly don't think that that was the case here. But it's curious - if understandable - that we've sort of tip-toed around even a general discussion of that topic in the Patz case. If the case occurred today? I think most would first look at the family.

At one point tonight, I think I remember reading an article or maybe an excerpt from Lisa Cohen's book that some members of LE did think the Patz were suspicious. I'm not sure what changed the mind of LE, but when I read that they FULLY cooperated with police- I believe Julia even underwent hypnosis to see what else she could remember from that morning. I was also extremely impressed that they never moved, kept the same phone number, and kept a written record of every single phone call they received relating to Etan.

IMO they behaved how parents with missing children "should" behave- cooperate fully, do what LE asks, be honest, etc.

 

[karen7868]

Hate to say this but could Ramos and Miller of been 'friends"?
They both knew Etan?

I bet they did know each other. For one, we know the Patz family knew this Miller guy, and the babysitter hired to walk Etan to school during the bus strike was dating Ramos. They were both handymen. Odds are they did know each other and sadly both probably were accomplices.

Sadly I read the babysitter's son was sexually abused by Ramos and grew up a troubled man and committed suicide. Ramos apparently used women to get to their sons. Monster.

 

[MsFacetious]

We have seen cases where the HRD dogs were able to detect the remains after 30 years, even when moved.
They believe Jean Zapata's body was moved more than once. The first dogs found a scent in 2004, she went missing in 1976.

http://forthemissing.blogspot.com/2010/02/jean-zapata.html

The 36-year-old Madison woman and mother of three disappeared in 1976, but the case only returned to the spotlight in December 2004.

December 2004: Cadaver Dogs Search Former Home
Two cadaver dogs searching the basement of Jean Zapata's former home and indicated hits of human remains. A human hair was taken from the site, police said.

August 2005: Cadaver Dogs Search Storage Locker
Two cadaver dogs separately indicated hits of decomposing human remains at a Sun Prairie storage locker that Eugene Zapata had rented.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

One more post before I go to bed and try to forget about this case for a while... does the child in the picture from the SoHo Playgroup in the 1970's IN THE BASEMENT they are currently tearing apart, not look like Etan?? Am I crazy? I honestly welcome your opinions... that is why I am posting the comparison....

One of the reasons Ramos was of interest - on his person were photos of young boys. No photo of Etan but all boys in the photos had a similar look to Etan.