Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #1 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[wfgodot]

I really hope they do find his remains so his family can finally lay him to rest. I'm betting Miller killed him.

I'm still thinking Ramos. If a Ramos-Miller link is definitely established, I'd think that the two of them might have had roles - Miller could have lured Etan; Ramos could have killed him. The basement space at 127B Prince Street was very convenient for this purpose IF, as I say, Ramos and Miller were acquainted.

 

[karen7868]

Here is more info on OM http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/shock_break_in_etan_case_FR9QcBXeKGjWteilQrV9gJ

I wonder if they have used the cadaver dogs in OM's home, if it is the same home he was living in 1979 since he asked what if the body had been moved?

Did he kill him at his home and move it to the basement?

Sounds like his daughter doesn't have much to do with him. Wonder why? Did they sense evil? Did they provide him with a false alibi?

I also wonder what state his health is in since he had a stroke 2 yrs. ago.

 

[RoseTree]

Well, in Ramos' 90% confession he did say that he let him go, surely he wouldn't have just let him go out in public though- Etan could have ID'd him! I wonder if he delivered him to Miller.

 

[9InchNails]

Wow, even french newspapers are covering the search!

I hope they finally find Etan's remains, it's been 33 years and his parents must be exhausted...

For those who can read french : http://www.liberation.fr/depeches/2...3-ans-apres-la-disparition-d-un-enfant_813172

 

[citylady]

A few things to add about the neighborhood in 1979 as I spent quite a bit of time there. A dear friend of mine was a co-owner of FOOD, the restaurant on the ground floor of 127 Prince which was a hub of neighborhood activity as it was one of the first and only places serving healthy food at the time. I had several friends who worked there over the years so I would eat lunch there quite a bit.

In 1979, the area was alot emptier still, it was mostly artists in lofts, their galleries and the kind of light industry that had previously occupied those lofts. My husband lived in SOHO at the time (just before we were met) and I've often heard that it was so quiet down there that his dog and two dog friends would make the rounds to the restaurant kitchen doors to be fed, that it was so neighborhoody that they could actually wander around in this way and then return to pick up my husband at his job, all within a few blocks of 127 Prince.

Unfortunately, this lack of foot traffic could have helped whomever abducted Etan.

A few more comments and things I have gleaned:

I was at a meeting yesterday afternoon with several gay men in their 50s and 60s who vividly remembered the search for Etan. They said that police had been all over the Christopher Street (gay) area for months and had questioned HUNDREDS of gay men in 1979-80. Sadly, as other posters have so eloquently pointed out, it was before most people understood that pedophilia was not related to homosexuality. So if gay sexual assignations HAD been taking place in that basement (and none of the gay men or FOOD employees I spoke to remembered anything like that) it was certainly on the radar of the police investigation at the time.

The police refusal to dig up the basement floor needs to be seen in the context of the dire financial situation that the city was in in 1979. NYC had come close to bankruptcy, city services had been pared to the bone and crime was rampant in whole sections of the city (the South Bronx was a burned out shell, for example).

Thank you for reading and I hope it is okay to post my memories and conversations here as a lifelong New Yorker, in hopes that they might help the discussions.

 

[wfgodot]

Great post, citylady, and thanks for it.

 

[Mjskit]

The place being searched was once a CARPENTERS shop. Think of the dangerous machinery that could have been there. In 1979 the safety features we see today were not a part of the equipment. It is possible, IMO, that Etan was killed by being curious and turned on a deadly machine. Ramos could have lured the child, molested him?, was caught by Miller. While Miller chastized Ramos Etan wandered to the machines and....
Miller may have covered it up - feeling responsible because
1. Etan would have felt safe going in the workshop because he was there the night before.
2. His machinery was responsible.
3. His employee lured Etan there.
4. He was black and the child was white. Racial tension at that time was still high.

Ulitimately, in this theory, Ramos would be the one I would go after for murder. If he hadn't lured Etan he would have been safely at school.

 

[wfgodot]

Newest AP release - nothing dramatic, just updating the procedures:

NEW YORK (AP) — Investigators carried rubble from a basement excavation site in lower Manhattan on Friday while searching for clues in the 1979 disappearance of a 6-year-old boy.

Utility workers with jackhammers and saws helped chip away an area around aging pipes, then law enforcers wearing workmen's gloves carried out the basketball-size chunks of rubble and carefully placed them in refuse bins. The material will be sifted and then taken elsewhere for testing.
---
FBI spokesman Tim Flannelly said it was "one lead of many."

"We're out here 33 years after his disappearance, and we're not going to stop," he said.
---

lengthy article here: Jackhammers used in search for missing NYC child (AP/WDTN)

 

[Mendara]

I do not think Ramos and Miller worked together there is no way Ramos would have not ratted him out earlier or point the finger after all the heat came down on him about Etan. Miller was a family friend, perps of child killers and molesters almost always are friends, neighbors etc. Etan would have gone willingly with Miller even for a minute. He really wanted to walk to the bus stop he may have even told miller that he would be the next day, I don't think he would have gone with someone like Ramos if his mom warned him to walk right to the bus stop, but miller yes he would have. Mo

 

[Rougelatete]

This article suggests some kind of relationship between Ramos and Miller but doesn't specify how they knew each other.

The dig is taking place in a small basement room that belonged to Othniel Miller, now 75, and which was also frequented by the case's longtime prime suspect Jose Ramos.

I find it interesting that the latest search of the basement followed two interviews of Miller but that Ramos is still considered to be a person on LE's watch list for the abduction of Patz. I wonder if Ramos did indeed kill Patz and Miller helped him cover it up. It would be unusual, but not unheard of. I also find it odd that Miller doesn't have any past crimes-against-children convictions. You'd think that if he had something to do with the disappearance of Patz, he'd have something in his past like Ramos does.

The new investigation is also reexamining the decades old assumption that Patz was abducted by convicted pedophile Jose Ramos. Ramos, now in prison for an unrelated case, was never charged with Patz's abduction.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/etan-patz-dissapeard-steps-home/story?id=16180332#.T5GU53gqPoA

 

[carole]

I do not think Ramos and Miller worked together there is no way Ramos would have not ratted him out earlier or point the finger after all the heat came down on him about Etan. Miller was a family friend, perps of child killers and molesters almost always are friends, neighbors etc. Etan would have gone willingly with Miller even for a minute. He really wanted to walk to the bus stop he may have even told miller that he would be the next day, I don't think he would have gone with someone like Ramos if his mom warned him to walk right to the bus stop, but miller yes he would have. Mo

BBM

I wonder if Miller didn't bait Etan about walking to the bus stop by himself. Etan's mother said Etan had the dollar Miller had given him and was going to stop and buy a soda on the way to the bus stop. I think Miller may have suggested that he and Etan could go together to get the soda and that was the reason Etan was so adamant about walking by himself that morning - they had plans.

MOO

 

[wfgodot]

Another AP update via CBS emphasizes the resolve shown by those in NYC in getting this case solved:

---
The law enforcement activity forced the temporary closure of some businesses on the block, including the fashion boutique Wink, on the ground floor of the excavated building.

"It's insignificant," owner Stephen Werther said of the lost business. "It's retail. There's always another day for us to make a living. This may be the family's last chance to find out what happened to their son."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57417875/basement-excavation-underway-in-etan-patz-case/

 

[karen7868]

The police refusal to dig up the basement floor needs to be seen in the context of the dire financial situation that the city was in in 1979. NYC had come close to bankruptcy, city services had been pared to the bone and crime was rampant in whole sections of the city (the South Bronx was a burned out shell, for example).

Thank you Citylady. Very informative. I was wondering about the refusal to dig up the concrete. So the city would have been made to have the concrete repoured?

I am just thinking how times are now that LE wouldn't have thought twice about digging up concrete if there was a chance of finding a missing child.

So, the city would have been responsible to replace it? I believe what you are saying so don't get me wrong. It just doesn't seem fair, but we are talking 33 years ago when things were a lot different.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Miller is said to be cooperative with the investigation - it could even be him that provided the tip, some new recollection or thought that made them think to do this. If others had access to the basement, he may not be involved.

 

[epiphany]

Snipped

Miller had befriended the boy, and would give him a dollar or two for helping out around the shop, sources said, adding that Miller is the "target" of their probe.

Investigators knew about him after Etan went missing, but did not consider him a suspect until recently.

Snipped

Miller also had what cops believed at the time was a credible alibi, sources said.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/basement-dug-up-in-etan-patz-search-ncx-20120420#ixzz1sbPOFAyY

 

[epiphany]

Special odor-absorbing pads were placed in the room, capturing the scent of human remains -- even decades old -- that police cadaver dogs were able to detect.

Investigators then twice interviewed Miller before obtaining a warrant and beginning the dig.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/etan-patz-dissapeard-steps-home/story?id=16180332#.T5GV_45ivs0

It appears to me that first, investigators got a cadaver hit on basement concrete floor, and they "then" interviewed O Miller.

 

[wfgodot]

New (online in last 20 minutes) L.A. Times article:

---
"We do have good probable cause to be here," Tim Flannelly, the special agent in the FBI's New York office, told reporters at the scene of the search Friday.
---
Police have said the search could go on several days, but the FBI official said anything was possible. “If we’re in the back of the basement and we find some evidence, this could grind to a standstill,” he said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-etan-patz-20120420,0,2988278.story

The Bureau's sounding pretty cocky about the good chances of resolving this.

 

[Mendara]

I hope this all is NOT political. Isn't there a new DA ?

 

[snowhiteo]

Hi I have been lurking on this site for a while now, and I joined a couple of months ago, but this will be my first post. Ever since I read that Etan had an 8 year old brother, I have been wondering why wasn't the brother walking with him to the bus stop. 8 years old, he probably would have been in the second or third grade, did he go to another school for some reason, or did he maybe have something like a doctors appointment that day or something?? Just wondering. Not that I think the family had anything to do with Etan's disappearance, because in this case I don't, I have just been wondering about this tiny little detail. If Etan knew he would be alone, and told someone like Miller, that would explain things.

 

[tlcya]

:welcome5: snowhiteo