Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #1 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[epiphany]

IMO, there were simply too many recent positive indicators to not excavate the basement of that building. Technology has advanced. And having new eyes examine an old landscape (case) often leads to fresh discoveries.

 

[wfgodot]

Well, at least we have a new person of interest and stain of interest this week.

 

[i.b.nora]

Do we know for sure that the basement space had finished or semi-finished walls in 1979? I was under the impression that the walls at that time were the original brick walls of the building.

Or as some news reports say perhaps the original walls were cinder block? Those buildings are old. I doubt very much they are cinder-block.

Was the Playgroup in this same basement space? Or was it just a work space for Mr. Miller? Or, did he leave and the Playgroup took over?

 

[Kat]

I looked back a couple of pages at all the articles and if this one is there I apologize if I missed it.

It's from a radio station.

http://www.wlsam.com/Article.asp?id=2440643&spid=

When Cy Vance was running for Manhattan District Attorney, he and his opponents were approached by Stan Patz, the father of missing child Etan Patz, and asked to re-open the case, help the family get closure and bring to justice the person who kidnapped and murdered the 6-year-old boy in 1979.

Vance made a commitment to Patz: if he was elected he would re-examine the case. He did so shortly after he was elected, meeting multiple times with Patz and former federal prosecutor Stu Grabois, who had devoted much of his career to the Patz case.

In January 2010 the case took on new life. Dormant since the former Manhattan DA, Robert Morgenthau, opted not to present evidence against one suspect to a grand jury, it got a fresh look by a team of prosecutors and an FBI agent assigned to it. Old interviews were reconsidered, old evidence re-examined, and a fresh round of interviews with subjects of the original investigation began.

The rest of the article is a rehash of recent news.

 

[carole]

Do we know for sure that the basement space had finished or semi-finished walls in 1979? I was under the impression that the walls at that time were the original brick walls of the building.

Or as some news reports say perhaps the original walls were cinder block? Those buildings are old. I doubt very much they are cinder-block.

Was the Playgroup in this same basement space? Or was it just a work space for Mr. Miller? Or, did he leave and the Playgroup took over?

I believe there was sheetrock added to the walls sometime after 1979. The sheetrock, I think was removed this week.

The playgroup was, as I understand, in the same basement area before Miller came along. The playgroup had found a permanent home before he used it as a work space.

 

[epiphany]

Do we know for sure that the basement space had finished or semi-finished walls in 1979? I was under the impression that the walls at that time were the original brick walls of the building.

Or as some news reports say perhaps the original walls were cinder block? Those buildings are old. I doubt very much they are cinder-block.

Was the Playgroup in this same basement space? Or was it just a work space for Mr. Miller? Or, did he leave and the Playgroup took over?

At the time of Etan's disappearance, the walls were exposed brick.

When Etan disappeared, the collective playgroup had moved and OM was using that space.

The original floor was concrete, not dirt:

An earlier version of this article misstated the type of floor in the SoHo basement in 1979. It was concrete, not dirt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/21/nyregion/etan-patz-search-methods-explained-by-experts.html

 

[Donjeta]

Re-posting from yesterday:

“He [OM] said he wasn’t there; he had some sort of alibi, and it sort of checked out,” said the person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation was continuing. That alibi was supported in part by a coworker, the person said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/21/n...ince-street-basement-and-an-old-handyman.html

is the co-worker JS?

 

[Kat]

According to this blog (which I found following a link backthread from a member's post that included a link to Soho Memories and an entry about the playgroup).

Etan lived at 113 Prince Street (this was not in the blog but it is his address and where his parents currently still reside according to media reports)

In the blog:

The ORIGINAL Whole Foods, at 117 Prince Street between Greene and Wooster, was opened by Charles Rosenblum in 1970 and closed on April 1, 2000.

This address is located between Etan's home and his path towards the bus stop that day.

Then we have another address:

And let’s not forget Dean and DeLuca. In 1973, Giorgio DeLuca, son of an Italian food importer, opened The Cheese Store at 120 Prince Street (now the site of Olive’s), where he sold a wide selection of domestic and imported cheeses previously not readily available in the US, and then in 1977, DeLuca, along with two partners, Joel Dean and Jack Ceglic, went on to open Dean and DeLuca, the gourmet food superstore across the street and converted The Cheese Store into a sandwich shop.

Which according to maps is located within the same block as Etan lived. I would assume that 120 Prince street being an even address was located on the opposite side of Prince Street than Etan's home at 113 Prince. The Dean and Deluca shop being described as opened on the opposite side of the street in 1977 would have been walked past by Etan in 1979? Possibly? On his way to school that day?

The address for Dean and Deluca in 1979 would have been:
http://www.deandeluca.com/Aboutus/Default.aspx?id=190&selItemId

DEAN & DELUCA introduced its first café at 121 Prince Street

The restaurant Food (see my post on Food here) opened in late 1971 at 127 Prince Street at the corner of Wooster.

The address of the basement that is being searched now is 127B Prince Street.

(WFG do you remember how many floors were in that building? just curious)

http://sohomemory.com/tag/food-restaurant/

From this blog entry you get a picture of the bldg. (it will show up at the bottom of this post, I'm posting it) It says you can see the entry for the soho playgroup to the side of the restaurant Food. Etan would have walked past this on his way to school that day.

The entrance to FOOD on Prince at Wooster. In the lower-left corner of the photo you can also see the entrance to SoHo Plagroup.

So it was an entrance directly to the basement that you walked down from the sidewalk yes?

Now. LOL. I really really *stink* at making maps. Can someone make one please? Etan's destination that day was the corner of Prince and W. Broadway.

TIA if anyone is up the the task

Opps forgot a link sorry! http://sohomemory.com/tag/dean-and-deluca/

 

[epiphany]

is the co-worker JS?

Only my speculation that JS may be OM's co-worker who supported OM's alibi that he wasn't there that morning.

 

[Kat]

Gotta go run errands, be back later WS friends!

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

Link to SoHo Playgroup Memory Project.

Possibly in basement until 1980.

http://sohomemory.com/2011/01/12/the-soho-playgroup/

I attended the SoHo Playgroup from 1972, around when it opened in the Prince Street space, until I was old enough to enter kindergarten at P.S.3 (no such thing as pre-K back then!). My sister also attended, from around 1974-1977. Cynthia was the teacher there the entire time we attended, and I think it stayed open for a few more years, until around 1980.

Oh found something else... Sister of Etan attended the group.

She said that Etan’s parents were part of the cooperative at times and that their daughter, Shira, was in the group. She did not know if Etan participated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/20/nyregion/amid-etan-patz-investigation-soho-recalls-the-old-neighborhood.html

 

[epiphany]

So it's only a little over a decade ago that OM said they could tear up the concrete floor?
Possibly giving a lot more meaning to his recent question about body being moved:

More than a decade ago, Mr. Miller invited the police to come in and examine the basement, suggesting that they could tear up the floor if they wanted, but that they would have to pay to replace it, a person involved in the inquiry at the time said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/20/n...ch-for-remains.html?pagewanted=2&ref=nyregion

 

[Cancan]

We grew up in and around NYC (I was born in 1969) and this case and Holly Ann Hughes were what my mother would cite whenever we wanted to push the boundaries, go somewhere alone, visit a friend she didn't know. I hope so desperately that the Patz family gets some closure. I can't imagine what the last 33 years must have been like.

 

[citylady]

Great sleuthing everyone. I have found another small detail after following up with a friend and colleague connected to the Leslie Loman Foundation/Museum:

There was an ongoing drawing class in the basement in 2012 (part of the Leslie Loman Foundation offerings) according to this friend/colleague from the poetry world who was enrolled in the class. A day or two before this story broke on Thursday, the drawing class members were informed (by email and/or phone, couldn't quite make that part out) that a "leak" had been discovered in the basement so it wouldn't be meeting this week.

My friend/colleague is very freaked out and upset, he too is a native NYer who remembers the case vividly. He has spent a lot of time in that basement in the past few years, as the Leslie Loman folks have also lent the basement space for poetry workshops and other offerings to other non-profit art organizations, especially gay and transgendered ones.

Even worse, he also believes that two weeks ago he may have seen the scent jars - he described glass jars with pads in them spaced evenly through the part of the basement he was in. When he asked the intern who was working the door what they were, the intern said he/she didn't know but thought they were part of some installation for the LL Gallery.

I don't know if this post even plays by the rules - I would prefer that he come on himself and be verified etc. but so far he is not really up to it. So, this post is MY OPINION ONLY and please edit or remove if inappropriate.

 

[i.b.nora]

I think its a great post, citylady! Nothing like a 'scent jar' installation piece.

And, great information, imo.

 

[i.b.nora]

Also, based on some the early reports, the Playgroup had had leaks and/or floods, so that doesn't seem out of the ordinary exactly. And, a great excuse to keep people out without telling them what was up.

 

[arielilane]

http://afteretan.com/index.html
On the morning of May 25, 1979, six-year-old Etan Patz kissed his mother goodbye on the sidewalk outside his parents’ downtown Manhattan loft and set off for his school bus stop, walking the two short blocks on his own for the very first time. But he never made it to school that day, and he never came home.
Etan Patz, the most famous missing child since the Lindbergh baby, became quite literally the poster child for a new movement, in a case that would change our cultural landscape forever. Thirty years later May 25th will be recognized as National Missing Children's Day, as it is every year, in Etan's honor.

 

[karen7868]

Don't know if anyone will find this of interest, but I came across this 1972 video made by the owners of FOOD. About 1/3 into the video is shot inside the restaurant and could possibly give you a feel of what life was like back then.

The restaurant's owner, Gordon Matta-Clark was the one that made the video and if you google his name and then images, you will find several photos. The video is black and white and starts out with what appears of one of the owners, Carol Goodden, shopping for fish for the restaurant.

The video is 43 minutes long and at around 8 minutes in is when it starts to record inside the restaurant.

The two Matta-Clark brothers both died in the mid 70s, one of suicide and Gordon Matta-Clark died of pancreatic cancer in 1978.

http://www.ubu.com/film/gmc_food.html

 

[arielilane]

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/gallery?section=news&id=8627814&photo=8

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

Even worse, he also believes that two weeks ago he may have seen the scent jars - he described glass jars with pads in them spaced evenly through the part of the basement he was in..

I tried to see what they may look like. Gooogle does not give good results since March 1 or whenever they changed their policies. Not for me anyways. Used to be able to find anything on first try. Now the results have little to do with the search terms.

I am sorry for your friends that you mention.. having a hard time with this. I guess LE could just not blurt out that the class will be canceled due to an investigation. Maybe after they got down there someone could have reached out - make sure the current basement group is OK.