Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #1 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[Shelby2]

I have no information at this time about exactly where the parents were at the time Etan went missing. Don't school's call home when a child does not arrive at school. Even back in the early 70's? Where was his sister... didn't they go to the same school?

I don't mean to upset anyone that emphasizes with the parents in this case. But coming from a fresh perspective I would want to know answers to these questions.

I find it darn strange that it is the "very first time Etan is allowed to walk to school on his own"... not the second day or the the third... the very first day.. What exactly was the babysitter told the night before... exactly what time was the babysitter told of this change in plans.....why change that pattern... and why was the sister not glued to her brother's side? If they were so concerned previously why not insist the two children walk together? Especially his very first day without a babysitter.. to walk him...the brother and sister did nto go to the same school?

I would also add that staying in the same place could also be because you are hiding a body and if you move you can't watch over the place where the body is. The parent's can literally see the place where they are digging.

I went to school in the 70's, no parents were not called by the school, and parents were not required to call the school if a child would be late or absent.

 

[wfgodot]

I went to school in the 70's, no parents were not called by the school, and parents were not required to call the school if a child would be late or absent.

Extremely o/t, but I've been meaning to ask: did you choose your avatar just because it's cool, or because it's cool and also appeared on the front cover of Joy Division's first album, "Unknown Pleasures"?

Okay, back to topic.

 

[Shelby2]

Extremely o/t, but I've been meaning to ask: did you choose your avatar just because it's cool, or because it's cool and also appeared on the front cover of Joy Division's first album, "Unknown Pleasures"?

Okay, back to topic.

Because I'm cool and I love Joy Divison! (and that album)

 

[wfgodot]

Because I'm cool and I love Joy Divison! (and that album)

Big fan ever since purchasing the 7" single of 'Love Will Tear Us Apart.'

 

[jobid]

I wondered about the babysitter too... here is what I found:

A six-week school bus strike had just ended; the buses were scheduled to resume service that day. During the strike, the Patzes had hired a woman to walk Etan to school, but now that the buses were back, Etan pleaded with his parents to let him walk the two blocks to the bus stop by himself.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/etan_patz/index.html

I also remember reading that the sister slept in, was sick, or something like that - the reason she wasn't with him.

 

[RoseTree]

I have no information at this time about exactly where the parents were at the time Etan went missing. Don't school's call home when a child does not arrive at school. Even back in the early 70's? Where was his sister... didn't they go to the same school?

I don't mean to upset anyone that emphasizes with the parents in this case. But coming from a fresh perspective I would want to know answers to these questions.

I find it darn strange that it is the "very first time Etan is allowed to walk to school on his own"... not the second day or the the third... the very first day.. What exactly was the babysitter told the night before... exactly what time was the babysitter told of this change in plans.....why change that pattern... and why was the sister not glued to her brother's side? If they were so concerned previously why not insist the two children walk together? Especially his very first day without a babysitter.. to walk him...the brother and sister did nto go to the same school?

I would also add that staying in the same place could also be because you are hiding a body and if you move you can't watch over the place where the body is. The parent's can literally see the place where they are digging.

I think that when we see pictures of Etan, we see a very young, perhaps preschool aged child. He looks about 4 to me in these pictures. I have a four year old, so I'm not too far off I don't think. However, Etan was six. Still way too young to walk to school alone, especially by today's standards. However, my newly seven year old neighbor walks three blocks to the bus stop alone. While I don't think I would do it, it's still common practice.

 

[RoseTree]

I can't believe people are pointing fingers at Etan's parents. A known child molestor who was closely associated with the woman employed to walk him to school, who admits attempting to molest Etan on the day he disappeared, who knew the list of the child's bus stops off by heart years later, who preferred young boys similar to Etan's type, and who has been found legally responsible in a civil court....and people are accusing the parents?

Boy, this really is a sign of the times. Back when Etan disappeared communities rallied round the parents of a missing child and tried to help. Nowadays people stand back and whisper behind their hands. Its guilty till proven innocent in this day and age.

So true. I think that we are forgetting that this case has been fine.tooth.combed. Am I wrong, wasn't Stan under a bit of suspicion for a while?

I don't suspect for even a microsecond. They embody the image of parents longing 33 years for their lost boy, hoping for peace, afraid in uncertainty.

 

[i.b.nora]

I have no information at this time about exactly where the parents were at the time Etan went missing. Don't school's call home when a child does not arrive at school. Even back in the early 70's? Where was his sister... didn't they go to the same school?

I don't mean to upset anyone that emphasizes with the parents in this case. But coming from a fresh perspective I would want to know answers to these questions.

I find it darn strange that it is the "very first time Etan is allowed to walk to school on his own"... not the second day or the the third... the very first day.. What exactly was the babysitter told the night before... exactly what time was the babysitter told of this change in plans.....why change that pattern... and why was the sister not glued to her brother's side? If they were so concerned previously why not insist the two children walk together? Especially his very first day without a babysitter.. to walk him...the brother and sister did nto go to the same school?

I would also add that staying in the same place could also be because you are hiding a body and if you move you can't watch over the place where the body is. The parent's can literally see the place where they are digging.

There have been a couple of good magazine articles posted on this thread previously.

Here is one from 2009: http://nymag.com/nymag/features/56441/

What Happened to Etan Patz
Thirty years ago, the 6-year-old boy disappeared from a Soho street. His father is now convinced he knows who killed Etan. But will the Patzes ever get a chance to learn the whole truth?

* By Lisa R. Cohen
* Published May 3, 2009

wfgodot also posted a link to a Vanity Fair article, I believe, a very early one and a very informative one. Maybe someone has the link handy?

 

[wfgodot]

I have no followed this case at all.. Have couple questions..

1. Was it moms or dads poly inconclusive?

2. have dogs ever searched the family home? cadaver?

[Stanley Patz] took three polygraph tests, two of which showed deceptive responses; on the second test, his polygraph indicated a deceptive reaction to the question of whether he had had contact with Etan since his disappearance.

Vanity Fair, June 1991, 141, second column

http://edwardklein.com/june_1991_VF_the_long_search_for_etan_patz2.pdf

Not sure about the second question.

Also, regarding Etan's babysitter, who had previously walked with him to the bus stop and as well had a relationship with Jose Ramos:

She was given a lie detector test and asked, among other things, if she had ever been in a car with Etan Patz and Jose Ramos at the same time. She said no. The results of her polygraph indicated deception.

(same source as above; 152, second column)

 

[Cappuccino]

Btw, the BTK killer passed his polygraph and the innocent husband of one of his victims failed. Just so no one gets too excited about polygraph results.

 

[wfgodot]

I would never take one and view them as a tool used by LE to speed one's path to a jail cell, innocent or guilty.

Still - an interesting result.

 

[AnaTeresa]

There's a reason polygraphs are inadmissible as evidence. Incredibly finicky. It entirely depends on the administrator, the construction of the questions, etc. I don't put much stock in them.

 

[wfgodot]

There's no way anyone in the family could have been involved and I think any insinuation otherwise is vile and insulting.

snip snip

That's certainly vitriolic.

I was 25 when he disappeared. At the time, the family were certainly suspected by many.

I followed the case through TV news, by reading the New York Times, the SoHo Weekly News, and the Village Voice et al.

It is never "vile and insulting" when a child disappears to look, at least, at every possibility.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

There have been a couple of good magazine articles posted on this thread previously.

Here is one from 2009: http://nymag.com/nymag/features/56441/

What Happened to Etan Patz
Thirty years ago, the 6-year-old boy disappeared from a Soho street. His father is now convinced he knows who killed Etan. But will the Patzes ever get a chance to learn the whole truth?

* By Lisa R. Cohen
* Published May 3, 2009

wfgodot also posted a link to a Vanity Fair article, I believe, a very early one and a very informative one. Maybe someone has the link handy?

It occured to me that Ramos would know the bus stops because his girlfriend lived there.. I get the feeling Ramos could not give key evidence to prove he was with the child..... it is almost like Ramos wanted to be the killer... to be famous for that... bu he isn't... he's so crazy it is anybody's guess... surely he could have described the clothing.. a birthmark... that would really nail it.. he admits to molesting him.. but not murder... he crosses the line but can't bring himself to admit to even himself he killed the child... no forensic evidence to link him.. it seems...

 

[Kat]

Has anyone ever seen the woman's name that was hired to walk Etan to school during the bus strike?

I haven't seen it over the years but I surely could have missed it because I never paid much attention to her in the past.

But, she *might* be the key IMHO.

Not that she did something to Etan but where did she live? Was it close to Etan? If so, who else was she close to in the neighborhood? Close enough to say "oh by the way, I'm not walking Etan to the bus stop anymore...or...etc.." KWIM?

Because she walked him to the bus stop during the strike. The first day that he walked to school by himself is the day he disappeared.

So I can see why investigators honed in on Ramos as prime suspect. He had the means to know that possibly. But there could be other people that also knew that if they had contact with this woman. I'm not saying she is responsible I'm saying I would like to know more about her is all.

In another article that I forgot to bookmark (but it may be here on the thread) LE is looking for other people who worked for OM as well. I wonder how many people have worked for him at the time Etan went missing?

I'd love to have a gander at the 50 page document that a FBI agent recently wrote calling it the Patzifesto after starting from scratch and looking at this case.

all JMHO

 

[wfgodot]

Has anyone ever seen the woman's name that was hired to walk Etan to school during the bus strike?

Nancy Kermode.

(Btw, in my post #635 above, the info about Kermode's polygraph is actually on page 152, second column.)

 

[Another New Yorker]

Because she walked him to the bus stop during the strike. The first day that he walked to school by himself is the day he disappeared.

Just to reduce confusion:

She walked Etan to the school during the strike.

The bus stop was much closer, which was why he thought he could walk it alone.

 

[Kat]

Thanks Another New Yorker! My mistake

Thanks WFG I found this when I googled her name, I'm saving it to see how the article jibes with other info over the years.

http://edwardklein.com/june_1991_VF_the_long_search_for_etan_patz2.pdf

I scanned it and it does talk about Shira, his sister a bit.

ETA: of for pete's sake! disregard I googled before you finished and all I saw was BTW and not the rest of your post WFG. Sheesh, I need to take a break! Sorry!

 

[epiphany]

I've seen only one possible or probable new person of interest. And it's not family members nor the babysitter. MOO

 

[wfgodot]

I've seen only one possible or probable new person of interest. And it's not family members nor the babysitter. MOO

Would that be Mr. Othneil Miller?