Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #1 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[Mrs. Holmes]

Yes, and Ramos (a known, convicted pedophile who liked boys who looked like Etan) was dating a woman (she told authorities that she broke up with him because he had molested her son - she believed he had gotten involved with her just so that he could do so) whom the Patzes were paying to walk Etan to school during a 2-month long bus strike.
Years later, Ramos recited every stop on Etan's bus to an informant in prison.
The first day that the buses were running again, Etan disappeared while walking alone to the bus, a distance of less than 2 blocks, in a straight line.

The day that Etan disappeared was the first day that Ramos's girlfriend was not walking him to school.

Ramos would obviously have known that his girlfriend was not going to be going to her 8AM job that morning, and there are reports that he had met Etan.

Therefore, it is not much of a stretch to believe that a known pedophile would lurk along the route of a child he was attracted to when he knew that child would be there.

All that remains is the introduction of opportunity, in the form of Etan having been unexpectedly allowed to walk the route alone, and you have an impulsive crime.

Since it appears that Ramos MAY have done some odd jobs for Miller and MAY have had a key to his basement shop, which was along Etan's route, and was in a place with which Etan was familiar, and where he felt safe (from attending or visiting play group and helping Miller there), it isn't much of a stretch to believe that Ramos, who was able to entice boys into his bus without any trouble, could call Etan down into the basement, after which point anything could have happened, and Ramos could have disposed of Etan's body any number of ways that did not entail burying him in the floor (such as putting him out for the garbage - how much did he weigh? Fifty pounds?).

There is some mystery here, but not too much, I'm afraid.

Very possible. It is kind of a horrible six degrees of seperation situation. At any given time how many people link you to a child predator? Miller could have also known Etan would be alone the next day if he actually was with the child for a period of time the night before? Etan could have mentioned it if he was excited. Was this in the presence of another adult.. that Miller was with Etan?

So far Ramo's victims lived. What if and this is a big what if.. Miller was the type of predator that kills? If reports are correct and there are actually two stains in that shop basement area... well what other children went missing in that neighbourhood .... while Miller was there?

 

[epiphany]

Miller's lawyer, Michael Farkas, issued a statement on Monday saying Miller and his family had been "undeservedly dragged through the mud during this ordeal."

"The Miller family remains deeply saddened by what happened to young Etan Patz, and by the fact that he still has yet to be located," Farkas said. "Mr. Miller, however, bears no responsibility for this tragedy, and wishes only to live happily and unmolested with his family into his old age."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/23/us-usa-newyork-boy-idUSBRE83M13C20120423

 

[DLT88]

Look, at the risk of being out of line here, and knowing that I have exactly three posts on this board, that I only joined to be able to supply concrete facts and clear up some misconceptions, and that the FBI is taking up right now and going back home with their toys, I think this comment, and others you have made in this vein, is way out of line.

This poor kid disappeared thirty-three years ago.
He would be 39 now.
He was declared legally dead twelve years ago.

He is dead.

He is not coming home.

He is not going to be found (though some traces of his body may be).

These poor people have been through H-E-•-•.

They are elderly now, and will go to their graves with their sadness, but their lives, and those of their children and grandchildren must go on.

Also, enough with the celebrity movie-location nonsense.
New York is not a movie set.
It is these people's home, and the home of millions of other people, who really do not care a whit about whether this or that place was in some movie or TV show, or whether some actor ate there, or, even, to be clear, whether that actor is eating at the next table over right now.
It is also the world center of media, which means constantly encountering streets closed by wise-guy 20-year-old gaffers and best-boys with walkie-talkies trying to prevent them from walking down their own streets because of some show they're filming, as well as having the press descend any time anything "interesting," like this investigation, occurs.

The Patzes have, I am sure, had it with all this press nonsense.
You may not understand what it is like to have reporters calling, ringing your doorbell, and accosting you on the street every time you go out to get a bagel, but it is the sort of thing that could drive a person insane.
And remember, this child is dead.
The press is not there to try to help finding a "lost" 39-year-old.
They are there to sensationalize this family's loss and make money from it, which, if you will observe, is something this family itself has never done.

I believe that the Patzes have behaved honorably and gracefully throughout this entire unending episode of 33 years, and to this day I grieve for their loss.

I apologize if this post violates this board's conventions, but I just couldn't keep quiet anymore.

I totally agree. I well remember when Etan Patz disappeared and the story was alive for a very long time. I never forgot this little boy. Everytime the family had some kind of clue their son was out there, they went for it. It breaks my heart that they never moved or changed their phone number for the slim chance that their son might make it back home one day.

 

[Cancan]

I totally agree. I well remember when Etan Patz disappeared and the story was alive for a very long time. I never forgot this little boy. Everytime the family had some kind of clue their son was out there, they went for it. It breaks my heart that they never moved or changed their phone number for the slim chance that their son might make it back home one day.

Me too. I was 10 when he disappeared and through high school I would hear, "remember what happened to Etan Patz" any time my parents thought I was putting myself in danger. (And then it became, "remember what happened to Jennifer Levin.")

I remember the newscasts. I remember the headlines, the interviews. There's no way anyone in the family could have been involved and I think any insinuation otherwise is vile and insulting.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Miller's lawyer, Michael Farkas, issued a statement on Monday saying Miller and his family had been "undeservedly dragged through the mud during this ordeal."

"The Miller family remains deeply saddened by what happened to young Etan Patz, and by the fact that he still has yet to be located," Farkas said. "Mr. Miller, however, bears no responsibility for this tragedy, and wishes only to live happily and unmolested with his family into his old age."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/23/us-usa-newyork-boy-idUSBRE83M13C20120423

The blood stain could have been there at anytime years before or since. So it really tells us nothing. Obviously LE would have sensitivity to the family and let them know they did not find any actual human remains when they were digging. The fact that they found bones of some kind of animal is creepy.

It was an unfortunate choice of words for Miller's lawyer to use the word umolested in that statement.

 

[carole]

Me too. I was 10 when he disappeared and through high school I would hear, "remember what happened to Etan Patz" any time my parents thought I was putting myself in danger. (And then it became, "remember what happened to Jennifer Levin.")

I remember the newscasts. I remember the headlines, the interviews. There's no way anyone in the family could have been involved and I think any insinuation otherwise is vile and insulting.

BBM

I agree with you completely.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

[/B]

BBM

I agree with you completely.

I would like to think that too. Sadly we do see alot of cases where one of the parents ends up involved. Until we have more evidence we never really know.

 

[Another New Yorker]

Ramos had a bus? School bus? Drove a city bus?

Later on he bought a used schol bus in Georgia and drove around to Rainbow Gatherings in it. He carried a stash of toys and would entice little boys onto the bus. He is in jail now for molesting two of them, but Heaven only knows how many others there were as he drove around the country.

What happened that was different?

In my personal (valueless) opinion, I would say that in the cases that are known, Ramos planned his attacks and had everything prepared to go smoothly.
If he was waiting that day along Etan's route, expecting to just catch a glimpse of him, and instead found him alone and acted impulsively, then he may have been caught without a plan to end the attack smoothly (ie: "kid missed school, can't just turn up back at his campsite or apartment as though nothing happened, and now the whole neighborhood's out looking for him - How do I get out of this?").

If we assume Etan was killed... Is Ramos connected with more missing children?

We will probably never know.
The guy was roaming the country in a school bus, enticing children on board.
He only got caught a few times, and he squirmed out of all but one of those.
It seems he probably did a lot more than he's been tried for.

 

[Another New Yorker]

If reports are correct and there are actually two stains in that shop basement area... well what other children went missing in that neighbourhood .... while Miller was there?

I've cut myself so many times over the years that if you tested my basement, it would probably light up like a slaughterhouse.

The stains are totally meaningless.

 

[necco]

I've cut myself so many times over the years that if you tested my basement, it would probably light up like a slaughterhouse.

The stains are totally meaningless.

Yep. Not to mention that it was used by a playgroup full of kids who might have accidents and get sick. And it was a workshop which probably would have had copper and iron. And over 100 years of people in and out.

I'd be suspicious if luminol didn't get a hit.

 

[epiphany]

Farkas' client took a walk with the Feds to the basement, apparently without an attorney, where either there or during a subsequent interview, he asked investigators the now infamous question. Had OM had an attorney, he may never have blurted out that question; he may never have accompanied them to the site, etc.

In any event, due to the nature of the leaks, Farkas had to blast both the leaks and swing back at the anonymous sources as reported by NY media.

IMO, his client was being hit hard by NY media, and he had to swing back. Regardless of my opinion of the case, I respect his attorney for doing so.

 

[carole]

I would like to think that too. Sadly we do see alot of cases where one of the parents ends up involved. Until we have more evidence we never really know.

BBM

We have 33 years of the investigation to consider. Etan's parents were investigated. Never once did LE have any reason to blame the parents for Etan's disappearance. The parents have nothing to do with his disappearance - there is no evidence to find that incriminates them.

When parents have been found to be involved in their missing/murdered child, it becomes apparent quite early in an investigation - not 33 years later.

 

[necco]

Farkas' client took a walk with the Feds to the basement, apparently without an attorney, where either there or during a subsequent interview, he asked investigators the now infamous question. Had OM had an attorney, he may never have blurted out that question; he may never have accompanied them to the site, etc.

In any event, due to the nature of the leaks, Farkas had to blast both the leaks and swing back at the anonymous sources as reported by NY media.

IMO, his client was being hit hard by NY media, and he had to swing back. Regardless of my opinion of the case, I respect his attorney for doing so.

I don't fault the lawyer for swinging back. I fault the lawyer for using that particular word... unmolested. That was just thoughtless and cruel when there are so many other synonyms the lawyer could have used.

 

[carole]

I've cut myself so many times over the years that if you tested my basement, it would probably light up like a slaughterhouse.

The stains are totally meaningless.

BBM

I know what you mean about your basement!!

I told my husband a couple of weeks ago we to be careful, if one of us goes missing we may be in trouble!! I found a blood stain about the size of the tip of my index on the refrigerator and neither one of us has a clue how it got there.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

Very interesting article here with many details.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Patz-told-brother-advances-men-vanished.html

It seems LE had a search warrant for this basement at the time of Etan's dissappearance. Apparently Miller did a sudden renovation by adding a new cement floor just days after Etan went missing.

Also that basement was the "Play Place" at the time Etan went missing. Very easy to get a child down there as apparently him and his sister played there.

This article stated they found possible blood on drywall down there.

I find it shocking that LE told this reporter that Miller became aroused when looking at pictures of the missing child. It is the Daily Mail so take it with a grain of salt.

A "Play Place" of this sort. While well meaning would never be considered these days. Parents took turns watching over the children in shifts. Talk about a predator's dream. Kind of like a daycare drop off center that anyone could come and go from. No background checks on who was over seeing the children.

Sad... I live in a place... a small town where kids play up and down the streets freely... like I did as a child.. without a care in the world...no supervision... except a parent looking out the window as they cook dinner... but in the big city where I came from that does not happen these days.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

I have no information at this time about exactly where the parents were at the time Etan went missing. Don't school's call home when a child does not arrive at school. Even back in the early 70's? Where was his sister... didn't they go to the same school?

I don't mean to upset anyone that emphasizes with the parents in this case. But coming from a fresh perspective I would want to know answers to these questions.

I find it darn strange that it is the "very first time Etan is allowed to walk to school on his own"... not the second day or the the third... the very first day.. What exactly was the babysitter told the night before... exactly what time was the babysitter told of this change in plans.....why change that pattern... and why was the sister not glued to her brother's side? If they were so concerned previously why not insist the two children walk together? Especially his very first day without a babysitter.. to walk him...the brother and sister did nto go to the same school?

I would also add that staying in the same place could also be because you are hiding a body and if you move you can't watch over the place where the body is. The parent's can literally see the place where they are digging.

 

[epiphany]

I don't fault the lawyer for swinging back. I fault the lawyer for using that particular word... unmolested. That was just thoughtless and cruel when there are so many other synonyms the lawyer could have used.

Yes, his attorney had many other words to choose from, yet intentionally selected that one. I believe he's saying to the media, my client did not molest that child, so do not continue molesting my client. Even a "newspaper of record" published a bold leak yesterday; Farkas responded by using a bold choice of word.

 

[T4Tide]

The unimaginable also happened the first time Leiby Kletzky was allowed to walk to his home.

 

[Mrs. Holmes]

The unimaginable also happened the first time Leiby Kletzky was allowed to walk to his home.

Wow no priors nothing.....

Murder of Leiby Kletzky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

interesting they say how rare stranger abuduction is... in 20,000 cases none were by strangers...

 

[Cappuccino]

I can't believe people are pointing fingers at Etan's parents. A known child molestor who was closely associated with the woman employed to walk him to school, who admits attempting to molest Etan on the day he disappeared, who knew the list of the child's bus stops off by heart years later, who preferred young boys similar to Etan's type, and who has been found legally responsible in a civil court....and people are accusing the parents?

Boy, this really is a sign of the times. Back when Etan disappeared communities rallied round the parents of a missing child and tried to help. Nowadays people stand back and whisper behind their hands. Its guilty till proven innocent in this day and age.