Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #2 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[epiphany]

Metal sidewalk doors usually open in NYC during early morning hours since shipments (stock) are arriving and being carried down into the store's basement. These metal sidewalk doors (a type of sidewalk vault) are/were common with the smaller store fronts. Growing up in the city, we were warned not to run or walk on them even when they are closed or locked (accidents, etc.).

 

[wfgodot]

A sidewalk vault - another term for a type of basement opening onto street. I think 127B Prince Street had that sort.

 

[epiphany]

A sidewalk vault - another term for a type of basement opening onto street. I think 127B Prince Street had that sort.

I am not positive, but I believe so. Not commonly referred to as sidewalk "vault" in NYC unless, perhaps, by store-owners, city planners, etc.

 

[Steely Dan]

I don't know what will happen with the landfills or dumps; I read a Huffington Post article that said they're looking into searching possible sites used in the 70's for trash picked up along the route which included the abduction/murder site. I do hope they'll be excavating the bodega building's basement, though! I would imagine it's possible there could be forensic evidence down there even after all this time.

Yeah, I think those are long shots.

I want Etan's parents to have closure, but this feels very John Mark Karr to me, especially since the anniversary of Etan's disappearance was yesterday. It would be amazing if there was closure to this case after all these years, though.

JMK wasn't even in Boulder when the murder on JonBenet occurred, at least this guy was physically in the area.

 

[epiphany]

Police typically compile details about murders and the victims that are not revealed to the public, and that was true in the Patz investigation, said former FBI agent Ken Ruffo, who worked on the case from 1982 to 1987.

“His parents shared with us confidential information that would only have been known by Etan or his sister,” he said.

“I’m hoping [Hernandez] did say something. If he’s got specific details, then you’ve got something to hang your hat on and feel better about.”

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...n_secret_ug3keSiZtxNplgwwWUVDsM#ixzz1w7F7zLo8

 

[NocturnalLady]

I know that everyone says child molesters can't be cured, will molest/kill again, and that sort of thing. And stats tend to back it up. But if a young Hernandez was soon to begin a regimen of meds - maybe he freaked when he realized what he'd done* and sought medical help - and stayed faithfully on his meds, he may be the exception that proves the rule, i.e., tests the rule.

* or says he's done

That's what I was thinking too. Maybe the meds & psychiatric care he got was able to keep him in check??

 

[epiphany]

That's what I was thinking too. Maybe the meds & psychiatric care he got was able to keep him in check??

Could be, and if so, perhaps, there was no sexual assault (auditory and visual hallucinations).

Will be interesting to learn dates of diagnoses (if accurate) and when prescribed treatment/medications began for:

-bipolar
-schizophrenia
-HIV
-cancer

 

[wfgodot]

So - show of hands on this. How many think Jose Hernandez in fact did kill Etan Patz?

I'll vote that he did, with the usual caveats that until we know more, etc. etc. But I vote yes.

 

[osadelnorte]

So - show of hands on this. How many think Jose Hernandez in fact did kill Etan Patz?

I'll vote that he did, with the usual caveats that until we know more, etc. etc. But I vote yes.

I won't say I'm 100% sure, but I feel the same way you do.

 

[wfgodot]

It doesn't look like we're doing a booming business at the polls here. I'm just curious as to what you guys think. It very well could go either way, whether or not he was involved, at this point, I think.

 

[NocturnalLady]

So - show of hands on this. How many think Jose Hernandez in fact did kill Etan Patz?

I'll vote that he did, with the usual caveats that until we know more, etc. etc. But I vote yes.

I think that he did. (But it's PEDRO, not Jose. I know you know that & it was just a mistake. Just don't want people getting confused.)

I never thought Jose Ramos did it. I thought he was someone who COULD HAVE done it but I just didn't think he did. With Hernandez I just have that feeling that this is the right guy.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Does anyone know if we will be seeing any of the video of the confession? What about medical reports? Interviews with family members, bodega workers etc? I am not familiar with the information release laws in NY.

 

[wfgodot]

I think that he did. (But it's PEDRO, not Jose. I know you know that & it was just a mistake. Just don't want people getting confused.)

I never thought Jose Ramos did it. I thought he was someone who COULD HAVE done it but I just didn't think he did. With Hernandez I just have that feeling that this is the right guy.

Either my best friend's brother - another Jose - entered my mind right then, or Jose Ramos (shudder) forced his way into my consciousness.

Yes, me too on not thinking it was JR. It was close to a good fit, but something always suggested that, though he is a child predator, he's not a killer. (I did think, though, that maybe he'd taken Etan and sold him.)

 

[snowhiteo]

I think it is highly possible that PH is responsible, but there is also a high possibility that he is lying. Something that bugs me is even if PH is telling the truth and he stopped Etan as he was walking in front of the bodega and enticed him down to the basement, it just seems like one of the kids or adults at that busstop would have been looking in that direction and had seen Etan walking down Prince St. and then pause in front of that basement entrance, because I am sure PH had to at least talk to him for a few minutes to convince him to go down there with him. That bodega is directly across the street from where the bus stop was. I have read that kids and adults said that Etan never made it to the bus stop, and I also read that that was the first day the bus was running again, and the bus driver made it there extremely early, at 8 am, and only 6 kids got on, when there was supposed to be 24. But in that same report, one mother supposedly waited until 8:20 at the stop, and she saw no sign of Etan, not sure if she got there late with her child, or if she was there looking out specifically for Etan, maybe his mother had told her he would be walking by himself, and asked her to look out for him??

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

So - show of hands on this. How many think Pedro Hernandez in fact did kill Etan Patz?

I'll vote that he did, with the usual caveats that until we know more, etc. etc. But I vote yes.

I will say either Pedro or a person that has not been named a suspect in this case ever. Possible a person whose name would be recognized - but not thought of as a suspect. Or a person {like Pedro} never heard of by public. I never thought it was Ramos. Never thought it was Miller either. Pedro is best of the 3 - I will say 80% + probability of Pedro.

 

[sherlockh]

I believe he did it. He already confessed many years ago, and he is not just some nut from another state. He lived in the area and worked near the bus stop from where Etan disappeared. Now the police will have to come up with a detailed reconstruction showing it was possible for Hernandez to do what he claimed he did. Then there is the 'evidence' of his earlier confessions in church and to family members, and that is about all there is I am afraid. I don't think they will find any physical evidence. If the reconstruction works out and he knows some private details then I think it will be enough to convict him.

Worshiper Recalls Admission by Patz Suspect Decades Ago

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

Does anyone know if we will be seeing any of the video of the confession? What about medical reports? Interviews with family members, bodega workers etc? I am not familiar with the information release laws in NY.

Usually the media is quick with FOIA requests regarding high profile cases such as this. Media has quoted LE at times. And been on scene to photo events at times. If official documents were available - media outlets would have made them available. My guess - someone made a Privacy Request regarding this entire case long ago - and it was granted. None of the search warrants were made public - the first document I have seen is the arrest warrant for Pedro. Which is really different for this case. So they may start answering the FOIA requests now that they have a viable suspect. If they give him a Federal Trial {for some reason} no cameras in court - just drawings. Super private. Par for the course for this case. Maybe years from now there will be a transcription of his confession made available.

 

[curl_in_progress]

I'm going with no, at this point. (More like 80/20 because PH could be telling the truth.) Etan left home at 8. He would have been close to the bus stop around 8:05. There would have been kids and parents out there at that time. Someone would have seen him close to the bodega.

Two things stated by PH are just too convenient for me.

1.) That they will not find a body. Someone mentioned up thread that Jose Ramos also said the same thing about not finding Etan.

2.) PH claims he lured Etan with the promise of a soda. How convenient is it that a soda is the same item that Etan wanted to purchase before getting on the bus? Why didn't Etan stop in the bodega for that soda and get it? He had the money ready to do so. If PH spent time talking to Etan and was able to figure out that he wanted a soda, they would have had to spend time having that convo and again, someone would have seen them. There was at least one adult out there. And we know that adult knew Etan well enough to know that he should have been on that bus. She even waited for him to show up after the bus left. So she certainly would have seen him approaching the bodega and talking with a strange man.

ETA: Now that I'm seeing that only SIX of TWENTY-FOUR kids made it on the bus, I'm even more skeptical of no one seeing Etan near the bodega. No way (imo) did Etan make it to the bus stop where PH could have lured him away as he allegedly claims. There would have been 18 more kids and maybe a few more adults out there either still walking to the bus stop or turning around and going back home once they realized they had missed the bus. IF PH intercepted Etan, he did it long before Etan got close to the bodgea and his bus stop. Probably outside of his (PH's) apartment, which I believe was closer to Etan's home than the bodgea/bus stop.

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm completely 50/50.

On the one hand, he was on the spot at the time, he has mental problems which at some point seem to have made him violent, hence his ex getting a barring order, and he's apparently spoken about it several times over the years.

On the other hand, if he was living in the area at the time this was all over the news and he has mental problems, he could have had a dream or a delusion that he'd done it, and the way its come up again just as the case is again all over the news creeps me out a bit. Its all a little reminiscent of Ryan Ferguson and the dream confession.

I don't think his confession should be enough to convict him, there needs to be some corroboration.

 

[Steely Dan]

So - show of hands on this. How many think Jose Hernandez in fact did kill Etan Patz?

I'll vote that he did, with the usual caveats that until we know more, etc. etc. But I vote yes.

It's tough but I feel like 51% to 49% that he didn't do it. That's based on what I know now. As far as knowing about the soda, I think that was common knowledge of the case. I think early on the parents said he wanted to get a soda with the dollar he'd earned the day before.

If he did do it then it may have gone down like this;

Etan comes in for a soda, but they don't have the flavor he wants. So PH tells him they have it in the basement. JMO

It just seems odd that the case became big news again and they were digging up areas and coming up empty. It would seem embarrassing to walk away empty handed.

On the other hand. I can see that because it became big news again that someone came forward.