NY - Former President Donald Trump charged with 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records, Apr 2023

[JerseyGirl]

Lawyers for Donald Trump, Michael Cohen square off in fight for credibility in criminal case

Donald Trump's indictment lawyer Joe Tacopina and Michael Cohen's lawyer Lanny Davis argued about each side's crediblity in the pending criminal case.

www.usatoday.com

The Justice Department declined to charge Trump when Cohen pleaded guilty to campaign-finance violations and tax evasion. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s predecessor, Cyrus Vance Jr., also declined to charge Trump.

Vance declined to discuss his decision, but told NBC's "Meet the Press" prosecutors in the Southern District of New York asked his office to stand down while they investigated. Vance said he was "somewhat surprised" when federal authorities didn't pursue Trump after Cohen pleaded guilty.

But by then Vance said his office was investigating the Trump Organization, which led to two guilty verdicts for parts of the company and the conviction of chief financial officer Allen Weisselberg. Vance said he and his office fought for Trump's financial documents through two U.S. Districts, two federal appeals courts and the Supreme Court, which all "found no evidence that politics was motivating our actions.”

Cohen has testified under oath at a House hearing about how he arranged the payments at Trump’s direction. Prosecutors said in his court records he acted at Trump’s direction. And Cohen said he received monthly checks for a year to reimburse him for arranging the payments, some of which were signed by Trump.

 

[JerseyGirl]

His lawyer defends him? Shocking.

But what did this same lawyer say before Trump was his client?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/23/politics/kfile-joe-tacopina-stormy-daniels-campaign-finance-2018/index.html

Former President Donald Trump’s defense attorney repeatedly speculated as a legal pundit that Trump’s alleged affair with Stormy Daniels likely happened and that the $130,000 payment made to Daniels days before the 2016 election could be seen as an in-kind campaign contribution, contradicting his recent legal and public defense of Trump.

Joe Tacopina, a defense attorney representing Trump in the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office investigation of Trump, made the comments in 2018 as a prominent legal commentator – years before he would ultimately represent the former president in the case that may indict Trump.

Trump's Team Blasts His Lawyer as 'Dumb' 'Loudmouth'

Joe Tacopina “pisses off others with his antics, but he’s a blunt object that Donald Trump wants, apparently,” one source says

www.rollingstone.com

During a recent appearance, Tacopina tried to grab a piece of paper held by the MSNBC host during the heated exchange. Tacopina also defended Trump’s denial of paying off *advertiser censored* star Stormy Daniels to keep her quiet about an alleged affair, albeit in a somewhat unique way: Insisting that the denial wasn’t a lie as it wasn’t made under oath.

“A lie to me is something material, under oath, in a proceeding,” Tacopina said. Melber explained that he wasn’t asking whether Trump perjured himself, just if the statements were true or false. Tacopina said: “It’s not a lie because it was a confidential settlement. So if he acknowledged that he would be violating the confidential settlement.”

And some five years before Tacopina represented Trump, he said on CNN that, if the facts in the hush money scandal were as Daniels described, he thought the alleged payoff could be considered an in-kind campaign contribution, meaning it would have needed to be disclosed on campaign finance forms, which it was not. This omission could well be at the crux of Bragg’s attempt to get Trump on a felony charge.

Framing his comment as a hypothetical, Tacopina said on CNN at the time it could be legally risky for Trump, “because this could be looked as an in-kind contribution at the time of the election. This is a real problem. And they both, and I’m telling you this, the reason we’re here I strongly believe is because of the words of both Michael Cohen and Donald Trump.”

Tacopina has since called the Daniels’ payment “plain extortion” and argued it wasn’t a problem with campaign finance law.

Tacopina tells Rolling Stone that he did not change his mind. Instead, he says, his previous comments were qualified as a hypothetical, whereas his current opinion follows having learned the case’s facts. “It was a hypothetical question asked by a T.V. host and I answered by twice qualifying my answer with ‘if those are in fact the facts!!’,” Tacopina says.

 

[Stunned]

The irony is, these sort of people are the first to wave the American flag, defend all police regardless of their actions, and say things like "you do the crime, you do the time!" i.e. respecting our judicial system. But now their <modsnip> ex-president is the one who did the crimes, so lets throw every ethical thing out the window. Wow wow wow. How low can these people go?

I guess we are about to find out, unfortunately. IMO

 

[FLmom777]

NY has state income taxes, tax returns, tax code, tax here tax there everywhere a tax tax, don't get me started.

But those wouldn’t be his records from the IRS.

 

[Emma Peel]

To establish a conspiracy charge, prosecutors must show that Trump and his co-conspirators agreed to commit the crime of false business reporting and/or campaign finance violations and took steps toward carrying out that crime.

In the Cohen case, among the counts Cohen was charged with, the prosecution alleged that Cohen and others (from National Enquirer and individuals from the Trump campaign) conspired to make the "hush" payments and conceal them from the public and regulators - a criminal conspiracy. Cohen ultimately pleaded guilty to the other charges and did not go to trial on the conspiracy charge.

IMO, that Pecker and Cohen and one other unnamed all testified in front of the GJ just prior to Trump's indictment ... raises the potential that conspiracy charges were considered for this new Trump indictment.

 

[Emma Peel]

But those wouldn’t be his records from the IRS.

No, they'd be records from New York State Department of Taxation and Finance.
If it is found business records were intentionally falsified and false info was reported to NYS in order to avoid paying the correct NY tax ... then (I'd expect) the charge would be tax evasion of NYS taxes.

(IIRC, for certain items, NYS could be obligated to notify IRS of discrepancies that likely would affect the IRS return for same tax reporting cycle.)

 

[Telltale]

I do think that every other adjacent party that touched the money in this situation pleading guilty (and with Cohen accepted jail time) despite being well-off well-connected people who could have fought, and had a lot to loose - does say something.

It would, in my opinion, take some rather amazing gymnastics for Trump not to be aware of the (legally pled to) crimes committed by his circle, employees and affiliates to cover up at least two alleged affairs. Now the man had a lot of money going everywhere and there were a lot of other people with their own agency banking on his win. So maybe he could have been oblivious? Still, harder to believe when he signed the reimbursement checks.

Also, in my opinion, if you break down his alleged actions in this incident - none of this seems out of charecter for him. In his history you could probably find not only an established pattern of behaviour but a direct quote from Trump himself, admitting to or praising similar behaviour.

I think people who are making a big deal about the decision not to go after Trump when Cohen pled guilty are forgetting that all went down in 2018. Trump was the actual sitting president at the time.

It's unprecedented to indict a former president on felony charges. Let alone the unfathomable legal/safety/security/etc cluster that hauling in a sitting president would have caused. I highly doubt the decision was made on the strength of the evidence.

 

[Lilibet]

Wouldn't they? I mean, where I live, I must file a federal return (which my state has access to and the numbers must match). Then, my state income tax return specifically asks me to transfer certain numbers from my federal form to the state form (and that's all the different parts of the form - 1040, Schedule A, B, C, etc - whatever I'm filing).

In the old days, they wanted a physical copy of my federal return; today they just coordinate with the IRS and share the records so that I can't lie to the state...

IMO. I bet NY's system is a lot like California's (every state I ever lived in had this procedure, but I'm sure there is variation - maybe Florida is different)

Florida doesn’t have state income tax, along with a number of other states like Texas and South Dakota. But that wouldn’t affect this case, of course, since it’s NY. So the NY state tax return would require info from the federal return AFAIK.

7 States With No Income Tax

These seven states impose no income tax on residents, but moving there may not save you money.

www.investopedia.com

 

[SouthAussie]

But those wouldn’t be his records from the IRS.

I am pretty sure that DT's state tax returns weren't handed over until February 22, 2021.
NY State had been trying to get them since 2019. But DT appealed and appealed. Eventually he was ordered to hand them over.
His accounting firm, Mazars, handed them over "within hours" of the Supreme Court ruling.

Whereas his federal tax returns were eventually handed over in December 2022.

State tax returns: article dated Feb 2021

Supreme Court Denies Trump’s Final Bid to Block Release of Tax Returns (Published 2021)

The former president’s accountants will give New York prosecutors the financial records he has spent years trying to shield.

www.nytimes.com

Federal tax returns: article dated Dec 2022

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/30/politics/donald-trump-tax-returns-released/index.html

 

[Sillybilly]

I am pretty sure that DT's state tax returns weren't handed over until February 22, 2021.
NY State had been trying to get them since 2019. But DT appealed and appealed. Eventually he was ordered to hand them over.
His accounting firm, Mazars, handed them over "within hours" of the Supreme Court ruling.

Whereas his federal tax returns were eventually handed over in December 2022.

State tax returns: article dated Feb 2021

Supreme Court Denies Trump’s Final Bid to Block Release of Tax Returns (Published 2021)

The former president’s accountants will give New York prosecutors the financial records he has spent years trying to shield.

www.nytimes.com

Federal tax returns: article dated Dec 2022

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/12/30/politics/donald-trump-tax-returns-released/index.html

Thank for that SA. I've been wondering about the Statute of Limitations that the defence will probably try to argue.

Sleuthing on the NY Statute of Limitations, I think it's possible the DA may be relying on when they were able to obtain the documents vs when the actual crime is alleged to have occurred.

Not knowing what the actual charges might be, but taking a leap:

Excerpt from: Legislation

8. an action based upon fraud; the time within which the action must
be commenced shall be the greater of six years from the date the cause
of action accrued or two years from the time the plaintiff or the person
under whom the plaintiff claims discovered the fraud, or could with
reasonable diligence have discovered it.

 

[Mama-dukes]

Me as well. Not a Trumper per se but am motivated enough at this time to attend protests and rallies in support of him.

Yes that should b fun let make him the next president again and then put him in jail lol

 

[MyBelle]

DA Bragg will not be condemned by the majority of MSM no matter what happens. JMO.

Why would MSM condemn DA Bragg? So far, the man has come across as extremely professional.

 

[RANCH]

Why would MSM condemn DA Bragg? So far, the man has come across as extremely professional.

Yes that's right.

 

[RANCH]

Thank for that SA. I've been wondering about the Statute of Limitations that the defence will probably try to argue.

Sleuthing on the NY Statute of Limitations, I think it's possible the DA may be relying on when they were able to obtain the documents vs when the actual crime is alleged to have occurred.

Not knowing what the actual charges might be, but taking a leap:

Excerpt from: Legislation

8. an action based upon fraud; the time within which the action must
be commenced shall be the greater of six years from the date the cause
of action accrued or two years from the time the plaintiff or the person
under whom the plaintiff claims discovered the fraud, or could with
reasonable diligence have discovered it.

That's civil law. This is a criminal case. JMO.

SECTION 213

Actions to be commenced within six years: where not otherwise provided for; on contract; on sealed instrument; on bond or note, and mortg...

Civil Practice Law & Rules (CVP) CHAPTER 8, ARTICLE 2

 

[SouthAussie]

That's civil law. This is a criminal case. JMO.

SECTION 213

Actions to be commenced within six years: where not otherwise provided for; on contract; on sealed instrument; on bond or note, and mortg...

Civil Practice Law & Rules (CVP) CHAPTER 8, ARTICLE 2

The state tax returns (and supporting documentation) that were handed over were from January 2011 to August 2019.

NYS started the action (to get the tax returns) in late August 2019.

Trump Taxes: President Ordered to Turn Over Returns to Manhattan D.A. (Published 2019)

A judge rejected the president’s argument that he was immune from criminal investigations.

www.nytimes.com

 

[RANCH]

The state tax returns (and supporting documentation) that were handed over were from January 2011 to August 2019.

NYS started the action (to get the tax returns) in late August 2019.

Trump Taxes: President Ordered to Turn Over Returns to Manhattan D.A. (Published 2019)

A judge rejected the president’s argument that he was immune from criminal investigations.

www.nytimes.com

Okay. Thanks.

 

[MyBelle]

The state tax returns (and supporting documentation) that were handed over were from January 2011 to August 2019.

NYS started the action (to get the tax returns) in late August 2019.

Trump Taxes: President Ordered to Turn Over Returns to Manhattan D.A. (Published 2019)

A judge rejected the president’s argument that he was immune from criminal investigations.

www.nytimes.com

And he refused to turn over his federal returns until the SCOTUS ordered him to do it in December.

 

[Cool Cats]

OK.

So we are dealing with State rather than Federal Charges.

So, which type of charges?

Felony or Misdemeanor?

 

[RANCH]

I tried to find the statute of limitations for criminal tax fraud in New York State and haven't been able to find it. Easy to find IRS info. JMO.

 

[Sillybilly]

That's civil law. This is a criminal case. JMO.

SECTION 213

Actions to be commenced within six years: where not otherwise provided for; on contract; on sealed instrument; on bond or note, and mortg...

Civil Practice Law & Rules (CVP) CHAPTER 8, ARTICLE 2

Statute of Limitations | NY CourtHelp

The official home page of the New York State Unified Court System. We hear more than three million cases a year involving almost every type of endeavor. We hear family matters, personal injury claims, commercial disputes, trust and estates issues, criminal cases, and landlord-tenant cases.

www.nycourts.gov

Scroll down to Criminal Cases: Statute of Limitations Timetable

That takes us to Fraud/6 years which takes us to what I linked to upthread.

I can only surmise that the SOL for criminal and civil are the same