NY - Former President Donald Trump charged with 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records, Apr 2023

[waldojabba]

Even the poll posted here earlier via CNN, showed that something like 71% of the pollsters agreed that this is entirely politically motivated. And this coming from people that (for the most part) have a severely unfavorable view of Trump.

This includes myself. If Trump wasn't planning to run in 2024, I don't honestly think any of this would be happening.

jmo

ETA: For more accurate info on that poll located here DocumentCloud

TABLE 005 Question 5 5. How big a role, if at all, do you think politics played in the decision to indict Trump?
Base: Total Respondents

The actual response was on average, 76% said yes, politics played a role.

Thanks for the poll link. Not surprising when you actually drill down. Answers by party affiliation fall pretty much imo as you would expect. Also interesting that the total percentage is reflective of both those thinking politics played a minor role as well as a major role.( Page 10 of document cloud link above )

 

[MyBelle]

I donno. T hasn't been all that reliable when working with numbers.

He hasn't been all that reliable when working with the truth, either.

 

[PommyMommy]

April 3, 2023 Trump indictment news

Former President Donald Trump has been indicted by a Manhattan grand jury, marking the first time in US history that a current or former president has faced criminal charges.

www.cnn.com

30 min ago

Trump arraignment has "unparalleled public interest," but it won't be broadcast, judge says​

Acting New York Supreme Court Judge Juan Merchan wrote his Monday night order that the media’s request to broadcast the arraignment of former President Donald Trump was understandable, but that the news organizations’ interests in providing the broadest possible access to the proceedings must be weighed against “competing interests.”

In rejecting the request to broadcast the arraignment live on television, Merchan still wrote about the historical significance of the proceeding in stark terms.

"That this indictment involves a matter of monumental significance cannot possibly be disputed. Never in the history of the United States has a sitting or past President been indicted on criminal charges. Mr. Trump's arraignment has generated unparalleled public interest and media attention,” he wrote. “The populace rightly hungers for the most accurate and current information available. To suggest otherwise would be disingenuous."

 

[10ofRods]

I know, lol and all that, but I do want him to have a fair trial. Am I alone in that thinking? If so we are so done as a society. And although I shouldn't have to clarify I am not a trump supporter. Ugh. That I have to type that explains more to me than anything else.

You're not alone, but the notions of "fair" are all over the place, as far as I can tell. I feel your pain.

 

[Ladyotm]

Had he not been running in the 2024 election there never would have been an indictment.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Hadn't the investigation been going on well before he announced he was running again?

 

[Cool Cats]

Hadn't the investigation been going on well before he announced he was running again?

Yes

 

[ZoriahNZ]

I know people are asking why this one? Why not another, more serious investigation being allowed to be "the first". Why not start with the biggest over what is perceived (by some) as the weakest. But that is pretty impossible when the different alleged crimes/investigations come under completely different court jurisdictions.

For example, I just can't see a NY state DA office trying to coordinate the completion of a business fraud investigation with a Georgia state DA office's election interference investigation, or a Federal level DOJ investigation of the stolen classified documents, or RICO or tax evasion etc. I think it would be improper for there to be that kind of coordination in various the criminal cases between AG's and DA's. Cooperation, yes, coordination, no.

I think it just comes down to which investigation has reached a state of readiness first. There are a lot of moving parts, a lot of witnesses and data to collect, and a lot of (imo) obstruction going on behind the scenes. The wheels of justice are infamously slow, with many court cases even on this website taking years to get to the trial stage. We need to be patient, bearing in mind that the work needs to be fair, methodical and thorough. This is an extremely serious matter and full and careful measure must be taken at each step to protect the process, the investigations and the defendant's rights.

 

[mickey2942]

The great irony, is that this indictment probably makes him even more popular with his base.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

The great irony, is that this indictment probably makes him even more popular with his base.

Which is rather concerning and a sad indication of how far politics has fallen these past few years. Apparently accountability, integrity and lawful conduct mean nothing in certain circles anymore. It's all about being on the 'winning team'. The rule of law, order, justice, democracy...seem to not matter much.

But they should.

I'm hoping that cooler heads, common sense and decency prevail. This is a turbulent time, but people should be held to a high standard if they want the power & responsibility that comes with pursuing the highest office in the country. We are already seeing deference here, which is probably for the best. No arrest, no camera footage, no handcuffs, no mugshot. I'm sure he will be released to his own recognizance. It does sometimes feel there's a different standard applied to different classes of people. But I understand why, at the same time, judges & LE don't want to create a media circus (which is already is).

 

[RANCH]

The great irony, is that this indictment probably makes him even more popular with his base.

Why do you think that is so?

 

[sds71]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1643055737680044033

 

[margarita25]

Qmfr

EXCITED ABOUT THE PERP WALK!

“WILL THERE BE A “PERP WALK”?​

No. So-called perp walks happen when a criminal suspect is taken in handcuffsout of a police precinct and then driven to the courthouse. But Trump won't be going to a police precinct. He's arranged a surrender with the district attorney's office and will head straight to the court, skipping a police station entirely. It's very unlikely anyone will get a glimpse of him going into court, unless he wants to be seen. That's because there are underground entrances, side doors and tunnels in and around the Manhattan courthouse.”

Trump is heading to court. Here's what to expect

Donald Trump is the first sitting or former US president to be criminally indicted.

www.channelnewsasia.com

DARN!!!!

 

[PommyMommy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1643055737680044033

Somebody should keep track of the tantrums from indictment to conviction. Trump Temper Tantrum Tracker. Or something...

 

[Emma Peel]

If President Trump paid Stormy Daniels with campaign funds would he have been in the clear and not broken any laws?

We tried covering this question several ways earlier; I had a chance to do some research. Thought I'd share; links below.

I was not aware there is a hush-money election law.

According to the article linked below ... there is election law holds that hush-money paid in order to influence the outcome of an election ... is illegal. Here, it's a Presidential Election.

Also, election hush-money paid by anyone is in-kind campaign donation that must be reported (even if illegal). The hush-money and the failure to report are both "illegal" actions.

The rules about in-kind donations and about election-influencing hush-money apply to the Candidate's personal payments as well. If Candidate personally pays hush-money to influence the election outcome, it's considered an in-kind contribution to the campaign and it is illegal per election law. A misdemeanor.

What can raise everything to a Felony (if normally a misdemeanor) is the falsifying of business records to obfuscate the hush-money payments (and the excess in-kind campaign contributions). Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor unless it's done to cover-up another crime. Then the falsifying is a Felony.

Thus ... if we have 30 falsified business records as cover-up ... we have 30 felonies.

Trump has been asserting for a long time that he didn't pay off SD or McD for any other reason than to protect Melania. Absolutely no one ever believed that. But ... now I understand why he keeps asserting that nonsense.

I'm wondering if SD and McD are involved in a scheme for hush-money that influences the outcome of an election ... aren't they also engaging in a misdemeanor? Maybe they cut a deal themselves.


I found an old article that explains why Cohen was charged with campaign finance law violations:

Why hush money Michael Cohen paid Stormy Daniels was an illegal campaign donation

And I found a recent article that explains why both SD & McDougal payments are both campaign finance donations and the failure to report them as such are violations, and even if they were reported, the donations are too large to be legal:

Trump indictment came after DA reviewed hush money payment to Playboy model Karen McDougal

bbm in quote

Late Thursday, Cohen’s lawyer, Lanny Davis, told USA TODAY he could not discuss what his client was asked during his two days of testimony before the Manhattan grand jury last month, including whether prosecutors were focusing on the $150,000 paid to McDougal.

But Davis noted that Pecker was brought before the grand jury to testify earlier this week. And he said prosecutors have a wealth of information to back of Cohen’s claims that Trump himself approved payments to both women under circumstances that would appear to violate campaign laws.

“This is a strong case with corroborating evidence up the wazoo,” Davis said. “Paying hush money that influenced the presidential election? That’s a pretty damn important crime.”

moo

 

[RANCH]

Somebody should keep track of the tantrums from indictment to conviction. Trump Temper Tantrum Tracker. Or something...

I don't think that would be a good idea for this thread. JMO.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Somebody should keep track of the tantrums from indictment to conviction. Trump Temper Tantrum Tracker. Or something

That would be a full time job for someone

 

[Sillybilly]

Even the poll posted here earlier via CNN, showed that something like 71% of the pollsters agreed that this is entirely politically motivated. And this coming from people that (for the most part) have a severely unfavorable view of Trump.

This includes myself. If Trump wasn't planning to run in 2024, I don't honestly think any of this would be happening.

jmo

ETA: For more accurate info on that poll located here DocumentCloud

TABLE 005 Question 5 5. How big a role, if at all, do you think politics played in the decision to indict Trump?
Base: Total Respondents

The actual response was on average, 76% said yes, politics played a role.

Everything was in the works well before November 2022 when Trump announced he would run in 2024.

from: How Alvin Bragg Resurrected the Case Against Donald Trump

The two leaders of the investigation had recently resigned after the new district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, decided not to charge Mr. Trump at that point. Amid a fierce backlash to his decision — and a brutal start to his tenure — Mr. Bragg insisted that the investigation was not over.

[...]

But by July, Mr. Bragg had decided to assign several additional prosecutors to pursue one particular strand that struck him as promising: a hush-money payment made on Mr. Trump’s behalf to a *advertiser censored* star during the final days of the 2016 presidential campaign.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Many posts have been removed.

If the complaining or the back and forth bickering and sniping continues, this thread will be closed for the night.

 

[RANCH]

New York DA Alvin Bragg made tough-on-Trump record central to campaign

Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg’s decision to bring criminal charges against former President Donald Trump makes good on the Democratic prosecutor’s campaign boast that he is tough on Mr. Trump.

www.washingtontimes.com

Mr. Bragg put his tough-on-Trump bona fides front and center as he faced off against other Democratic contenders in the 2021 race to become the top prosecutor in one of the country’s most liberal-leaning cities.

Throughout his campaign, Mr. Bragg boasted about his work overseeing the lawsuit against the Donald J. Trump Foundation while serving as the New York state chief deputy attorney general from 2017 to 2018.

It's clear that Mr Bragg's had his sights set on President Trump well before he announced his bid to run for President in the 2024 election. JMO.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Everything was in the works well before November 2022 when Trump announced he would run in 2024.

from: How Alvin Bragg Resurrected the Case Against Donald Trump

The two leaders of the investigation had recently resigned after the new district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, decided not to charge Mr. Trump at that point. Amid a fierce backlash to his decision — and a brutal start to his tenure — Mr. Bragg insisted that the investigation was not over.

[...]

But by July, Mr. Bragg had decided to assign several additional prosecutors to pursue one particular strand that struck him as promising: a hush-money payment made on Mr. Trump’s behalf to a *advertiser censored* star during the final days of the 2016 presidential campaign.

Everything was in the works before November 2022 but they knew what was coming imo. The timing is interesting to me because right around the time pressure was being placed on Mr. Bragg by his own party, Trump wins the CPAC straw poll.

How Alvin Bragg Resurrected the Case Against Donald Trump (Published 2023)

A year ago, the investigation into the former president appeared from the outside to be over. But a series of crucial turning points led to this week’s indictment.

www.nytimes.com

After one of the prosecutors’ resignation letters leaked, an uproar ensued. Soon, Mr. Bragg, a Democrat, was being attacked by many in his own party and pilloried by late night comedians.

Donald Trump wins CPAC straw poll

The former president fared better than he had in 2021.

www.politico.com

Date - 2/27/2022
ORLANDO, Fla. — At the annual gathering of conservatives in Orlando, former President Donald Trump delivered his strongest signal yet he plans to run for president again in 2024 — and if he does — a straw poll shows he has the support of a majority of Conservative Political Action Conference attendees.