Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #10

[horsenaround60]

Maybe because they would wonder why he had not used the app to try to locate it?

That may be it. Just not enough info to figure this thing out!

 

[sleepinoz]

But if he is guilty, why would he even plant her phone, knowing that LE could maybe get evidence off it? Why wouldnt he just have thrown it away where it couldnt be found? Unless, he knew there might be evidence on it that would exonerate him and he wanted it to be found?

I think he needed it to be found for all the evidence in regard to Jennifer's gaming, thinking it would prove she would leave. IMO some of the gaming evidence in her phone was planted.

 

[Abigail]

Questions with answers that we don't know (Assuming GR as a POTENTIAL POI, but not named a POI by LE):

• When was the van abandoned at Plank Road Manor?

Option 1: On December 11, the day Jenn went missing, and the residents just didn't happen to notice it.
Option 2: Sometime after December 11, but where was it before? And, since word was now out of a missing woman, why take the risk of moving it to a rather public location?

• Where could the van have been hidden, prior to it being abandoned at Plank Road Manor?

• What time did GR arrive at the YMCA on December 11th, 2012?

GR stated that JR left the house around 10:30
GR stated that he headed to the Y while he believed Jenn was driving to the mall.
Based on GR's statements, Jenn's drive to the mall would have begun around 10:30 and she would have arrived around noon.
Thus, according to GR's statements, he would have headed to the Y between 10:30 and noon.
If he jogged to the Y (which apparently was his habit, according to some insiders here), it would take about 1 hour, so we can reasonably deduce that he would have arrived at the Y between 11:30 AM and 1 PM.
Of course, it's possible that he hitched a ride (although nothing mentioned about a ride TO the Y, just a ride home. And he wouldn't have been chilled). But if that were the case, he could have arrived a the Y as early as 10:45 AM or so.
So, logical deduction from statements of GR would be that he arrived at the YMCA some time in the late morning or early afternoon.

We can also reasonably exclude some times:
1) It's unlikely that he went to the Y prior to 10:30 AM that day. If he did the school run that morning, it wouldn't have left much time to have gotten to the Y, have done his workout, and gotten back before Jenn left.
2) It's unlikely that he went to the Y after 5 PM that day because that's supposed to be when he was all worried about Jenn not getting back, and he made a phone call to his in-laws at 5:30, and he'd also need to be seeing to supper for the family, since Jenn wasn't there.
3) I would assume that it would be usual to have an adult at home in the afternoon when the kids got home (although I do not know that for sure).

So, a reasonable deduction based on the info available to us would be that he arrived at the Y in the late morning or early afternoon.

• How did GR's time of arrival to the YMCA on that day, differ from his normal scheduling?

• When did GR initially volunteer to take a polygraph test?

• Why did GR volunteer to take a polygraph test?

We only have GR's statement that he volunteered to take a polygraph, rather than comply with a request from LE. Statement from LE was that "he took a polygraph" -- not "he volunteered to take"
http://thedailystar.com/localnews/x1423436202/Officials-seek-leads-on-missing-area-woman/print
He could have volunteered because he was innocent and wanted to be cleared by LE, and get them out looking for his wife rather than looking at him.
He could have volunteered because he'd studied how to beat a polygraph, and was confident he could do so

• When was the voluntary polygraph test administered by LE?

At some point prior to Dec. 19 (see above link to Daily Star)

• How long did the affair between GR and his running partner last?

• Where exactly in the vicinity of the Moon Hill Road/SR-23 intersection was the phone located?

• When (between the 11th and 16th of December), did Jennifer's parents arrive to the area from Arizona?

• Was there enough time between the 11th of December, and the arrival of Jennifer's parents, for GR to possibly tie up loose ends and conceal evidence in regards to his possible complicity in the disappearance of his wife?

• Besides finding the phone, what other steps did GR take in attempting to find his wife?

He notified the police and filed a missing person's report.
He (or someone on his behalf) started a FB page on 1/1/2013 to receive well wishes and prayers

• Was there any attempt at the beginning on GR's part to contact local friends, to help him in trying to find his wife?

These are only a few of the many unanswered questions (to my knowledge). If any have been pointed out, please correct me.

My other question is in regards to possible motive:

If we assume that the affair that GR had engaged in with his running partner had an influence on the potential motive that led to Jennifer's death... then would it not be safe to assume that we could possibly be looking for an entirely different potential person of interest, or at least engender the possibility that we could be looking at two potential persons of interest acting together (conspirator/co-conspirator or perpetrator/accomplice)?

I agree that more than 1 person may likely be involved in Jenn's death; however, I tend to think that if a 2nd person were involved, they were an accessory after the fact.

That's not to say that that is true, but one has to look from all potential angles.

This is all my opinion, and not to be construed as fact.

 

[Abigail]

I think he needed it to be found for all the evidence in regard to Jennifer's gaming, thinking it would prove she would leave. IMO some of the gaming evidence in her phone was planted.

What gaming evidence was found on her phone?

 

[sleepinoz]

What gaming evidence was found on her phone?

I don't know for a fact that any evidence was found - LE have not released that information.

LD/CC however stated (and don't ask me to find the post) that Jennifer was speaking to people in the gaming world and used this to try to persuade everyone that Jennifer left of her own accord.

I did say he was thinking it would prove and I also said IMO - To be honest Abigail we have Very Little that is Fact, and much that is theory - even all the things of which you speak.

 

[LJKaust]

Arghhhhhhh sooooooo frustrated!!!

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[zwiebel]

No arrest yet? Sigh.

Never mind, it's coming, sure as Easter.

 

[zwiebel]

This case gives me the impression that a clever (or maybe manipulative is a better word) mind has been at work here. Too clever for their own good, and they haven't been able to resist showing it.

A person can fall silent when they have realised they have made a mistake and gone too far, but they cannot take back what's already out there.

Especially if there are a load of armchair detectives out there who keep rehashing inconvenient matters. Must be really irritating.

What I love is when people who have something to hide start attacking the people who are getting closest to the thing they want to hide - it's like sticking a massive billboard up, saying 'Don't look here!'

Lol, I mean, how helpful is that?

 

[Abigail]

This case gives me the impression that a clever (or maybe manipulative is a better word) mind has been at work here. Too clever for their own good, and they haven't been able to resist showing it.

A person can fall silent when they have realised they have made a mistake and gone too far, but they cannot take back what's already out there.

Especially if there are a load of armchair detectives out there who keep rehashing inconvenient matters. Must be really irritating.

What I love is when people who have something to hide start attacking the people who are getting closest to the thing they want to hide - it's like sticking a massive billboard up, saying 'Don't look here!'

Lol, I mean, how helpful is that?

:yourock: Good thoughts

:HHJP::HHJP: (let's put our collective armchairs together)

And revisit some of the points brought up that seemed to elicit the strongest reactions -- via sending folks over here, (remembering that it takes several days to be able to post after registering here), response in media, and response in FB.

This will require help from some who have been here from the beginning.

But one thing that immediately leaps to mind is that the affair was being discussed over here, and then several days later, a "one-time tryst" was admitted to media ("what does that have to do with anything?"), while "changes" in JR were highlighted -- obvious attempt to minimalize and deflect attention away from affair.

And the 2nd thing that leaps to mind is that statement from the "anonymous" friend -- when we began discussing that rather in depth and analyzing motive, suddenly a certain poster made an arrival here.

 

[zwiebel]

Snap! That is exactly what I was thinking would be a good thing to do. It could provide some really interesting pointers.

 

[yupikgirl]

:yourock: Good thoughts

:HHJP::HHJP: (let's put our collective armchairs together)

And revisit some of the points brought up that seemed to elicit the strongest reactions -- via sending folks over here, (remembering that it takes several days to be able to post after registering here), response in media, and response in FB

Strong reaction: organized search by volunteers. Turned out the location they were going to search was where Jen was found. That day was all sorts of crazy....

 

[Abigail]

Strong reaction: organized search by volunteers. Turned out the location they were going to search was where Jen was found. That day was all sorts of crazy....

That's RIGHT -- the SEARCH was HUGE!!

 

[zwiebel]

Abigail, can you keep a list of any suggestions? I've got so many lists going I can't keep track. Once we have a list, then we could start rooting for evidence to back things up, and why anyone might have wanted to hide any particular bit of info at any particular time.....

 

[LolaAngelina]

Beautiful pic of little Jen added on Justice for Jennifer Ramsaran

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-for-Jennifer-Ramsaran/485680108145366

 

[Abigail]

I went back to the first thread, and discussion of a search seems to begin around page 17, around Jan. 4. That seems to be when people started getting comments deleted and banned from the FB page.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193609&page=17

 

[Abigail]

Abigail, can you keep a list of any suggestions? I've got so many lists going I can't keep track. Once we have a list, then we could start rooting for evidence to back things up, and why anyone might have wanted to hide any particular bit of info at any particular time.....

OK, will do.

So far, on the list we have:
1) Affair
2) Anonymous person in Daily Star article
3) The search

I'll keep adding on as people think of discussions that seemed to elicit a strong response. And will go back through those threads again. Those who have been here from the beginning are especially valuable.

 

[sleepinoz]

OK, will do.

So far, on the list we have:
1) Affair
2) Anonymous person in Daily Star article
3) The search

I'll keep adding on as people think of discussions that seemed to elicit a strong response. And will go back through those threads again. Those who have been here from the beginning are especially valuable.

Abigail - if you are trying to elicit a strong response from the GR team - I would ask you to reconsider for the sake of the children.

If he is who we think he is, I doubt any of us could imagine what type of response this action could bring.

I relation to your list above:

1. The Affair - this was spoken about weeks before the admission of a tryst - not days before.
2. Anonymous person in Daily Star article - Was also spoken about months prior to the person admitting to be him/her joined WS.
3. The Search - This was arranged by Jillian and the HFJR/J4J page - so maybe you should ask her what sort or reaction that brought to her and her family.

My point is that this 'trying to elicit a strong response' - could be counter-productive and maybe weeks/months before you get the response you are looking for. Overall it could be much more ineffective than you think.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Abigail - if you are trying to elicit a strong response from the GR team - I would ask you to reconsider for the sake of the children.

If he is who we think he is, I doubt any of us could imagine what type of response this action could bring.

I relation to your list above:

1. The Affair - this was spoken about weeks before the admission of a tryst - not days before.
2. Anonymous person in Daily Star article - Was also spoken about months prior to the person admitting to be him/her joined WS.
3. The Search - This was arranged by Jillian and the HFJR/J4J page - so maybe you should ask her what sort or reaction that brought to her and her family.

My point is that this 'trying to elicit a strong response' - could be counter-productive and maybe weeks/months before you get the response you are looking for. Overall it could be much more ineffective than you think.

Thankyou for posting this. I agree, we need to be very careful when they are children involved. Not to say we can't discuss our opinions and theories, but devoting time to just to post things to get a response is very dangerous IMO

 

[Abigail]

Abigail - if you are trying to elicit a strong response from the GR team - I would ask you to reconsider for the sake of the children.

If he is who we think he is, I doubt any of us could imagine what type of response this action could bring.

I relation to your list above:

1. The Affair - this was spoken about weeks before the admission of a tryst - not days before.
2. Anonymous person in Daily Star article - Was also spoken about months prior to the person admitting to be him/her joined WS.
3. The Search - This was arranged by Jillian and the HFJR/J4J page - so maybe you should ask her what sort or reaction that brought to her and her family.

My point is that this 'trying to elicit a strong response' - could be counter-productive and maybe weeks/months before you get the response you are looking for. Overall it could be much more ineffective than you think.

You did not read the posts correctly. The idea is to revisit the issues that have already elicited a strong response, as the strongest clues are perhaps there.

 

[sleepinoz]

You did not read the posts correctly. The idea is to revisit the issues that have already elicited a strong response, as the strongest clues are perhaps there.

I read correctly - You are revisiting to try and get a greater response, as you mentioned what happened when these things were talked about.

You are expecting responses like you have mentioned here:

But one thing that immediately leaps to mind is that the affair was being discussed over here, and then several days later, a "one-time tryst" was admitted to media ("what does that have to do with anything?"), while "changes" in JR were highlighted -- obvious attempt to minimalize and deflect attention away from affair.

And the 2nd thing that leaps to mind is that statement from the "anonymous" friend -- when we began discussing that rather in depth and analyzing motive, suddenly a certain poster made an arrival here.

Again - both had been well mentioned in previous WS threads prior to any reaction or admission

Think of the Children is all I'm asking.