Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #10

[Ace85FL]

In thinking about this case...

GR stated that she left at approximately 10:30 AM in the morning.

I've contemplated on the traffic, as well as whether or not she left earlier than that 10:30 time slot, to make it to the mall.

From Destiny USA's website, their hours are:

Monday-Saturday: 10am-9:30pm
Sunday: 11am-6pm

There is a disclaimer included, stating:

"Restaurant and Entertainment venue hours vary. Please check individual venues for more detail."

Browsing among the many stores there on their shopping page; The majority of the stores tend to open in conjunction with the hours of the mall itself (i.e. 10:00 AM).

The only ones that seem to open at an earlier time are some of the food chains (Dunkin Donuts and Panera Bread [7:00 AM], Subway [7:30 AM], Starbucks and Arby's [8:00 AM]), and two salons (Mastercuts and Regis Salons [both of which open at 9:00 AM]).

I looked even further on their site and located a news section, with an entry entitled "Destiny USA Announces Extended Holiday Hours and Christmas Day Openings" from December 14th, three days after Jennifer disappeared, which announced the hours for the Christmas shopping season.

Snipped:
"Destiny USA’s General Holiday hours* will continue to be extended over the next week with hours Sunday December, 16th – Sunday, December 23rd 8:00am-11:00pm and Christmas Eve hours 7:00am-5:00pm.

*Destiny USA’s general hours do not include department stores, entertainment venues or restaurants. See venues for extended hours."

The Christmas shopping hours weren't set to start until December 16th (the day that her van was found).

My questions in regards to the case in correlation to this information:

1. Being that Destiny USA is the sixth largest shopping center in the United States, and the largest in the state of New York... then assuming that Jennifer had planned to go there (in the middle of the week and unaccompanied)... would she have had a specific store in mind, in order to get in, get out, and head back home?

2. Is it possible that she actually left earlier, so as to be there as soon as the mall opened at 10:00 AM (also possibly so she could get a fairly good parking space and wouldn't have to walk a long distance), to get back home as soon as possible, as opposed to her leaving from the house at 10:30 AM?

3. Is it possible that she may have taken a different route to Syracuse (as opposed to 23) at an earlier time, wasn't sure if the Christmas hours had started yet and went to a local store instead, or perhaps forgot something, and returned home?

4. Did traffic cameras capture her van being driven on SR-23 at all, in the approximate 10:30-11:00 AM range?

In regards to the "may have dyed her hair" statement...

5a. Assuming GR is THE culprit... could the "may have dyed her hair" been emphasized in an effort to throw off LE?

Following up on five, and also assuming the possibility of a possible accomplice (if Jennifer POSSIBLY returned home at a "compromising and unexpected time")...

5b. Assuming GR is A culprit/co-conspirator... Is it possible that the "may have dyed her hair" statement was something to throw off locals and neighbors in the event they had seen a POSSIBLE accomplice of GR's behind the wheel of Jennifer's van on the day of her disappearance, whose hair color differed in appearance from that of Jennifer's normal hair color?

In the initial statement of her disappearance, there was no indication of Jennifer's normal hair color.

:waitasec:

Just something to consider

 

[momrids6]

Yes, something like "color enhancing" or "color preserving" shampoos...

My opinion would be that she would most likely have a few grays at 36 and probably used a vegetable dye to cover them up without completely dying it a different color. JMO

OH- don't get me wrong- I am in total agreement with you...it is the wording of
"hair rinse" that is bothering me... If it is the temp color- there should be a box, gloves, applicator, etc- and if it is a shampoo/conditioner... there are bottles...and they ALL have the color on them

 

[AnJ11811]

OH- don't get me wrong- I am in total agreement with you...it is the wording of
"hair rinse" that is bothering me... If it is the temp color- there should be a box, gloves, applicator, etc- and if it is a shampoo/conditioner... there are bottles...and they ALL have the color on them

LOL you made me think of the other terms used for it

And yes, you are right - even the shampoo rinses state if they are for brown hair, black hair, etc...I agree...there should still have been some kind of color specified.

 

[AnJ11811]

LOL you made me think of the other terms used for it

And yes, you are right - even the shampoo rinses state if they are for brown hair, black hair, etc...I agree...there should still have been some kind of color specified.

Sorry to quote myself but now I'm thinking more....if now it is admittedly just a rinse then why did anyone (GR) bother mentioning it in the first place?

"She showered and applied a shampoo in hair rinse. (did not color her hair, nor dye it as media incorrectly reported.)"
http://jenniferramsaran.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_27.html

The information that was released continues to make me want to bash my head into a wall...but that topic has been beaten to death, so I won't rehash. Just venting my frustration :furious:

 

[yupikgirl]

Actually there are "hair rinses" Clairol is one of them and you put it in after you shampoo and leave it in. It washes out though in one wash. Fanciful is the name of another. They sell them at Sally's and some at Walmart. Most of the fanciful ones I have seen at walmart are used to cover gray and add a little color. I have never used one, but my sister used to use it when she got highlights and they came out a little too brassy/orange LOL. This would be a temporary color fix until she got back into the salon. She would choose an ash color to combat the orange...or something like that I can't remember, but there were several colors to choose from. I've picked it up for her before in the past LOL.

Link to fanciful:
http://fanci-fullhair.com/fanci/how_to_use.html

Edited to say that color not rinse is the right word, but I have always thought of these fanciful ones as a "rinse" not sure why LOL. Maybe it says it in the bottles don't know, but in my mind since it washes out right away and a temporary color takes a few washes. Anyway it could be regional...I say a lot of things wrong LOL.

Forgot to say the question "is it used every day" in the link above that is what my sister used it for when she didn't like how her hair turned out at the salon and either didn't want to go back or was waiting in another appointment somewhere else. I only heard about this stuff because of her...I am 39 and have highlighted my hair for over 20 years...always at the salon and every 6-8 weeks like clockwork. My sister is trying different colors a lot though so she does some stuff at home when she's not happy...I could see Jen maybe using one of these if she recently had a hair appointment (someone stated this somewhere) and wanted to tone it down or didn't like it.

 

[momrids6]

Actually there are "hair rinses" Clairol is one of them and you put it in after you shampoo and leave it in. It washes out though in one wash. Fanciful is the name of another.

RSBM: Fanci-ful has a color on it too. And Jen just went to the salon the week before. Guess he could not call the salon and ask what Jen had done either.

 

[epiphany]

OH- don't get me wrong- I am in total agreement with you...it is the wording of
"hair rinse" that is bothering me... If it is the temp color- there should be a box, gloves, applicator, etc- and if it is a shampoo/conditioner... there are bottles...and they ALL have the color on them

I think a temporary hair rinse will either help the gray blend in or tone down brassiness (from a prior more permanent coloring session) if desired.

After shampoo during shower, towel dry to damp, apply from bottle (no mixing) and then style/dry hair as usual.

With a temporary rinse, others would probably not see any noticeable change to Jennifer's last/most recent hair color.

Jennifer may have used a temporary hair rinse that morning, but her hair color would have remained basically the same color it was prior to the rinse.

Ah, I see posters above indicated the one I was thinking of.

 

[zwiebel]

I am glad the info about the wash in/wash out hair rinse is being released at last. I'm just sorry it couldn't have been done sooner, because there needn't have been all that confusion about Jennifer's hair colour. And of course, just the fact she was reported to have changed it made a lot of people think she was trying to disguise herself.

Ah well. At least we know now Jennifer looked just like she always had, for anyone who thinks they might have info/tips as to what happened on that day. The colour is so subtle hardly anyone would notice.

<modsnip>

 

[yupikgirl]

Oh and I agree there would have been a bottle there to get the exact color....they don't change your hair much though (as previous posters have already said sorry to repeat). It was in my mind just said to throw everyone off and sound like she "ran off". As well as the destiny shopping trip...to look in the other direction for Jen and the van. I'm sure they questioned the daughter on the dress so maybe she did plan to go there that day....either way it was a convenient location.

Edited to say we were all posting around the same time or I missed a few posts LOL. Sorry to repeat what others had already figured out! I had always thought the hair rinse comment was unnecessary back in the beginning because in my mind it wasn't anything that would change the basic color of someone's hair. It actually made me suspicious of whomever reported that...not suspicious that Jen ran off which I assume was the intended reason for mentioning it. I don't recall if I ever posted about it here back then because on the missing pages on Facebook quite a few of her friends were commenting that her hair was pretty much the same color as usual...that we should disregard it, but it never got taken off the posters...shocker!

 

[voominvava]

In my honest opinion, Jenn didn't live her life around that game, she enjoyed the break from real life, and chatting to other people around the world. The game came a major distant last to her children IMO.

I think it just annoyed her husband that she was having fun doing something that didn't revolve around him.

:twocents::innocent:

 

[yupikgirl]

I think it just annoyed her husband that she was having fun doing something that didn't revolve around him.

:twocents::innocent:

I agree. Even way back in the beginning he threw out the talking to a guy from the UK to muddy the waters as well :furious:

Ill look for the link...

 

[voominvava]

Actually there are "hair rinses" Clairol is one of them and you put it in after you shampoo and leave it in. It washes out though in one wash. Fanciful is the name of another. They sell them at Sally's and some at Walmart. Most of the fanciful ones I have seen at walmart are used to cover gray and add a little color. I have never used one, but my sister used to use it when she got highlights and they came out a little too brassy/orange LOL. This would be a temporary color fix until she got back into the salon. She would choose an ash color to combat the orange...or something like that I can't remember, but there were several colors to choose from. I've picked it up for her before in the past LOL.

Link to fanciful:
http://fanci-fullhair.com/fanci/how_to_use.html

Edited to say that color not rinse is the right word, but I have always thought of these fanciful ones as a "rinse" not sure why LOL. Maybe it says it in the bottles don't know, but in my mind since it washes out right away and a temporary color takes a few washes. Anyway it could be regional...I say a lot of things wrong LOL.

Forgot to say the question "is it used every day" in the link above that is what my sister used it for when she didn't like how her hair turned out at the salon and either didn't want to go back or was waiting in another appointment somewhere else. I only heard about this stuff because of her...I am 39 and have highlighted my hair for over 20 years...always at the salon and every 6-8 weeks like clockwork. My sister is trying different colors a lot though so she does some stuff at home when she's not happy...I could see Jen maybe using one of these if she recently had a hair appointment (someone stated this somewhere) and wanted to tone it down or didn't like it.

BBM - good thinking! I could see that. She could have also spoken to her hairstylist and this was a suggestion he/she gave, to alter the colour if Jennifer didn't like it .. and then the hairstylist could fix it when he/she was available.

I'm sure it was mentioned in the missing report, in order to confuse. And there has to be a shade on the bottle of "hair rinse" or whatever it's being called now. :facepalm:

 

[yupikgirl]

BBM - good thinking! I could see that. She could have also spoken to her hairstylist and this was a suggestion he/she gave, to alter the colour if Jennifer didn't like it .. and then the hairstylist could fix it when he/she was available.

I'm sure it was mentioned in the missing report, in order to confuse. And there has to be a shade on the bottle of "hair rinse" or whatever it's being called now. :facepalm:

I agree. I actually didn't think of it until I went on my tangent about my sister and her highlighting woes...she's older than me and I learned from her mistakes LOL. we have naturally brown hair, but I have been dirty blonde with blonder highlights my entire adult life. Ours tends to get brassy if the hairdresser isn't experienced because the natural color is dark. Jens hair appears dark and could do the same when lightened....obviously this is all speculation. Who knows it could all be made up :moo:

 

[Abigail]

I'm thinking that it was parked in the opposite of where people were directed to look. What about Oneonta? There are two colleges there and a lot of student vehicles so it really would not have been noticed if parked at one of the colleges or public lots. The parking garage has cameras so I don't think that would be risked.

That would be a good place to park it, but the problem would be how to get back to one's own vehicle. This seems to be the snafu every time I come up with possible scenarios. The only one that I can think of that fits neatly is parking it at the Plank Road Manor on Dec. 11, then jogging to the Y (1 mile away) and from there we know that GR got a ride home.

 

[Abigail]

If, in fact GR is part of this, I personally think he would have disposed of JR and the car (and any other evidence) that day (and ASAP) before calling LE to report her missing. He was anxious to call them, as well .. so I'm sure everything was "put away" neatly, and he was ready for his performance. I doubt he would have risked having her or any evidence left hanging for them to find. Which, also may lead to premeditation .. unless he's a very, very quick thinker.

The phone, he could have very well kept behind and disposed of it a few seconds before he "found" it and called LE. Perhaps he even left it in the van to be stolen, right along with the van - since the keys were there for anyone to see - and when it wasn't stolen, he went back and retrieved it and went with plan B.

I liked your point, Amanda, about it being someone known to her, because if it wasn't, everything - including JR - would have most likely been left in the van and left somewhere.



It all just seems so neat and tidy, like a script doesn't it? Sometimes I wonder if it's too obvious .. then other times I think GR didn't realize how obvious it was.

Yes, quite neat and tidy. I do agree that the most likely scenario would be taking care of all the details on Dec. 11.

 

[CupCaked]

Noticed a clarification on the hair dye, at the above blog link. "She showered and applied a shampoo in hair rinse. (did not color her hair, nor dye it as media incorrectly reported.) "

BBM

If the media reported it incorrectly, why wouldn't someone contact the media to let them know?

I've been going through all the media links, and putting info I thought was important on note pad. Unfortunately for me, PC restarted for update and I lost all my information.

Not sure if I can post with out a link to MSM, but I found 2 different reports on clothing she was wearing.

One said jeans, blue/ purple top the other said jeans, purple sweater.
I am not sure which one mentioned her black jacket. I am wondering if it was the jacket she was wearing in the flyers. It had the red stripes on it. To me, that would stand out more to help find her, as opposed to what color her hair may have been. I am also wondering if that was the same black jacket she was wearing or a different one.

I was surprised to see that a lot of the 'newspapers' did not mention what she was wearing. I can't say for sure about the Evening Sun, as you have to subscribed to read the rest of the article. (On line)

I was wondering when Jenn actually first planned to go to Destiny USA.
If she was going to get a dress for her daughter, why go the day before, and not on the weekend? She could have brought her daughter with her to help pick out the dress.

If she had $500 cash on her, I am wondering how much she was supposed to spend on the gift for GR? After all, he filled up her van with gas a few days before. I'll be generous and give her $100 to spend on dress and lunch. That leaves $400 left. Maybe it was a gift that was to equal the $300 she spent on clothes "Just for herself"?

I am going to go back and find the links I found about her clothes.

You guys are doing an awesome job trying to get Justice for Jennifer!!

ETA MSM link Evening Sun
http://www.evesun.com/news/stories/2013-01-18/16677/Search-called-off/


"She is described by authorities as a white female, approximately 5’5” and 170 lbs. She has brown hair and blue eyes, although it has been reported that she may have changed her hair color at some point prior to her disappearance. She was last seen wearing blue jeans, a purple and white sweater and a black jacket. "

I wonder where they got the report of a purple and white sweater?
This article does show Jenn in the black jacket with red stripes.
Also the 170lbs? 20 lbs difference from most other reports.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

What is a shampoo in hair rinse?

I found this, which is quite useful

http://www.hairweb.org/color-rinses-hair.htm

For me it's always meant that really temporary colour you might put in if you want to look a bit different for a night out/special occasion etc. Washes out more easily than a semi-permanent colour.

 

[Abigail]

The new flyer is posted on the Jennifer Ramsaran - Missing Person FB site and blogspot. first post in some time! Hope it stays up and answers come in! Negative comments posted are being removed. I think it would be good to have it shared there but it may get removed if people keep commenting. JMO and everyone is entitled to theirs. The more it gets shared, posted, physically posted the more likely a lead may come in. https://www.facebook.com/MissingJenniferRamsaran?fref=ts#!/MissingJenniferRamsaran?fref=ts

blogspot http://jenniferramsaran.blogspot.com/p/events.html

Great news!!

And you're right...negative comments on that site won't help anything.

 

[Abigail]

They have a garage within clear view of the neighbor.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=473+...815&ei=zvRTUdeAIIe4rAeTqIHACA&ved=0CDEQ8gEwAA

Thanks The Fox. Looking back at the google map, the neighbors to the north of Jenn's parents' house have a clear view of the parent's driveway, if they happened to be in their own driveway. It appears that the outbuildings might obscure their view of the house and garage, but a little hard to tell looking from above. The neighbor's garage is on the end of the house that would face the Renz house, but if inside the house, it appears that the windows of the neighbor's house face toward the street and toward the woods in the back.

I wonder if those neighbors work during the day? I wonder if LE questioned them?
I wonder if they did see the van, if it would have even clicked (if might be usual for Jenn to pull in there).

 

[Abigail]

BBM

Not to make a red herring out of it, but that could be a clue.

I know family of mine that live in the more rural areas of Chenango County, who tend to leave their cars unlocked, and leave the keys in the ignition all the time.

It tends to happen in secluded areas, and not in the more heavily populated parts like Norwich or Sherburne.

It could be an indication of habit. One would think that one would throw away the keys in the process of getting rid of evidence, and not leave them in the van.

It could implicate a local.

If GR is in the habit of leaving keys in the ignition because of the secluded area he lives in (or if he keeps his vehicle in the garage with keys in the ignition), it's possible that it could implicate him.

Just an idea to throw out there

Good thought. When I was growing up out in the sticks, our family always kept the keys in the cars. And I have some very good friends who still leave the keys in their pickup.