Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #10

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The APB also went out on a maroon Chrysler Town and Country minivan (license plates: EFA-1962). Jillian has since indicated that Jennifer's Chrysler Town and Country minivan was an orange-ish red-ish (bronze?) color, and not maroon.

Not meaning to quote myself...

If GR is color-blind... it's possible he thought the van was maroon.

Another aspect of color-blindness (at least in some people)... some claim to have a better ability to see in the darkness, or discern things better in the dark than people with normal vision.

Which would be advantageous for one to dispose of a body in the woods at night without the aid of a flashlight.
 
Gosh, I'd love to see some verified LE weigh in on some of the questions here, especially considering how the CC sheriff's dept has been kicked around. I'm sure others here have seen situations like some of those for which they've drawn fire here -- such as dissuading the public from undertaking their own searches. I'd hazard a guess that most people here understand that there could be two sides to that sort of policy. I also seem to think that either LE or good journalists have done some useful work, given some of the statements I've read.

And another statement released to the public is "He said his extramarital affair was irrelevant to his wife’s disappearance," and I hope I'm mistaken...but if someone doesn't know why someone else has disappeared, how could s/he know what lines of inquiry to ignore?
 
I wonder if searches were discouraged because the sheriff's office feared someone very close to the case would discover Jennifer's body, and contaminate the evidence?

I wish they could just release a sentence that Jennifer's death is being investigated as a possible homicide, or that homicide detectives are investigating. That would really help media coverage imo.

The odd thing in this case, to my mind, is the way so many seem to feel constrained to wait for COD before even suggesting Jennifer's death is suspicious, let alone a homicide. Given the circumstances in which she was found, it seems crazy to me.
 
I couldn't help but notice that in an old article where GR and his running partner gave a long, joint interview, GR spoke frankly and openly about his traumatic childhood and personal family matters. This was to highlight a worthy cause.

It does make it seem very strange that he has fallen silent now, when the worthy cause of discovering what happened to his wife desperately needs highlighting.
 
I couldn't help but notice that in an old article where GR and his running partner gave a long, joint interview, GR spoke frankly and openly about his traumatic childhood and personal family matters. This was to highlight a worthy cause.

It does make it seem very strange that he has fallen silent now, when the worthy cause of discovering what happened to his wife desperately needs highlighting.

Is this the site you're referring to?

Crowdrise.com: Two Chenango County Residents Run for Epilepsy Awareness on May 6
 
53007593-640.jpg


This is the correct color- not in sun


see more: http://gtcarlot.com/car/53005022
 
Thinking about it... where Jennifer's body was found especially...

I believe that her body may have been placed there under cover of darkness, just as I feel that the van may have been left at Plank Road Manor under cover of darkness. Possibly on the same night.

One would least likely to be seen at night time, especially on a road like Center Road, with few residents living out there, one would be less apt to drive that stretch at that time of night.

Where the Jennifer's body was left indicates one that may not have been too familiar with the road, or at least hadn't traveled out there in a while, most especially in the dark. The proximity to the houses nearby (the ones near Rhinevault and the ones over in the woods off of Coy) tells me two things... that Jennifer's body was left there in the dark, and that putting her body there wasn't something planned, but something last minute.

It also leads me to believe that the van may have initially been hidden in the proximity of Center Road, possibly the parking lot on Fred Stewart Road for the Finger Lakes Trail/Plymouth Loop Trail section.

Another indication as to why it may have occurred in the dark... the proximity of where the body was left, to the road. In light, one has a good bearing of distance, but in darkness, distances can be obscured. Come spring after the snow and ice melts, her body probably would have been discernible from the road.

I think Jennifer's body may have been placed on Center Road on the same night as her van was left at Plank Road Manor.

Her van would probably have been hidden around the 11th, somewhere within the proximity of Moon Hill/Reservoir Hill (in that area).

Covered in mud to mask and camouflage it to blend in to the shadows of the landscape (which would explain it being covered in mud when found).

If it had snowed or rained in the area where it was in the meantime, some of that mud would likely have been washed away a little.

I would place the timing of this somewhere between late to early morning hours (a time of night where one wouldn't be noticed), between the 11th and the 14th of December. .

As I stated in a prior post, the Chenango County Sheriff didn't release a Missing Person's report until 8:39 PM on December 13th on their Facebook page.

News about her disappearance didn't occur until later that evening, and in the papers the next morning (December 14th).

LE's report indicated that Jennifer may had changed and dyed her hair, indicative, or at least passing on the possible notion to the general public, that she had run away.

The APB also went out on a maroon Chrysler Town and Country minivan (license plates: EFA-1962). Jillian has since indicated that Jennifer's Chrysler Town and Country minivan was an orange-ish red-ish (bronze?) color, and not maroon.

If the license plates were covered in mud, one wouldn't be able to discern the van (by plate or by color). :facepalm:.

There's a lot of strange aspects, and there's a lot of questions that need to be answered about this case. :furious:

Good thoughts.
IF the van (and body?) were in, say, the Plymouth Loop parking lot (about where Fred Stewart meets Center Road?), how did the perp get from there to his own vehicle or to his home or to a place where he could get a ride home? How far from there to Y? (10 or 12 miles?)

Would the body be in the van for 3 days?? What if someone decided to look in the van (or LE investigated a vehicle that had been sitting there 3 days)? If the van sat there for 3 days, in what state would the body be in? (20's at night) I'm thinking there'd be a good bit of purge fluid when body would be moved.

Then...he would have needed (on the night of 14th) to get back to the Plymouth Loop parking lot (how?) to retrieve the van (and then dump the body?) and then drive to Plank Road Manor. And from Plank Road manor, he'd have needed to get back to Plymouth Loop (assuming he left his own vehicle there) or get back to his home, or get back to somewhere where he could catch a ride home.

Unless...someone were dropping him off and picking him up at various locations.
 
I bet Jennifer never thought she would be the first thing in the morning and the last thing at night, that so many think about every day! Love to her family and peace to her. One of her friends said to me yesterday, Jennifer won't rest peacefully until her kids are safe. I think that it would be nice to let that mommy rest and let's hope for some results this week! CC, we have faith in you! Don't let her family down!

Happy Easter Everyone!
 
Thinking about it... where Jennifer's body was found especially...

I believe that her body may have been placed there under cover of darkness, just as I feel that the van may have been left at Plank Road Manor under cover of darkness. Possibly on the same night.

One would least likely to be seen at night time, especially on a road like Center Road, with few residents living out there, one would be less apt to drive that stretch at that time of night.

Where the Jennifer's body was left indicates one that may not have been too familiar with the road, or at least hadn't traveled out there in a while, most especially in the dark. The proximity to the houses nearby (the ones near Rhinevault and the ones over in the woods off of Coy) tells me two things... that Jennifer's body was left there in the dark, and that putting her body there wasn't something planned, but something last minute.

It also leads me to believe that the van may have initially been hidden in the proximity of Center Road, possibly the parking lot on Fred Stewart Road for the Finger Lakes Trail/Plymouth Loop Trail section.

Another indication as to why it may have occurred in the dark... the proximity of where the body was left, to the road. In light, one has a good bearing of distance, but in darkness, distances can be obscured. Come spring after the snow and ice melts, her body probably would have been discernible from the road.

I think Jennifer's body may have been placed on Center Road on the same night as her van was left at Plank Road Manor.

Her van would probably have been hidden around the 11th, somewhere within the proximity of Moon Hill/Reservoir Hill (in that area).

Covered in mud to mask and camouflage it to blend in to the shadows of the landscape (which would explain it being covered in mud when found).

If it had snowed or rained in the area where it was in the meantime, some of that mud would likely have been washed away a little.

I would place the timing of this somewhere between late to early morning hours (a time of night where one wouldn't be noticed), between the 11th and the 14th of December. .

As I stated in a prior post, the Chenango County Sheriff didn't release a Missing Person's report until 8:39 PM on December 13th on their Facebook page.

News about her disappearance didn't occur until later that evening, and in the papers the next morning (December 14th).

LE's report indicated that Jennifer may had changed and dyed her hair, indicative, or at least passing on the possible notion to the general public, that she had run away.

The APB also went out on a maroon Chrysler Town and Country minivan (license plates: EFA-1962). Jillian has since indicated that Jennifer's Chrysler Town and Country minivan was an orange-ish red-ish (bronze?) color, and not maroon.

If the license plates were covered in mud, one wouldn't be able to discern the van (by plate or by color). :facepalm:.

There's a lot of strange aspects, and there's a lot of questions that need to be answered about this case. :furious:

But what about his kids? He would have had to leave them alone in the middle of the night to do this, knowing that one might wake up and see he was gone. Knowing that he would know that LE would probably question the kids too, how would he explain his absence that hour of the night? Unless maybe he had an accomplice to do this for him?
 
Thinking of Jennifer this morning as I'm making breakfast, thinking - she would have been doing the same thing. How dare anyone harm her, especially for such personal gratification.

I bet Easter, amongst the many other holidays was very dear to her - for her children's sake. I bet she did the egg coloring, egg hunts, Easter baskets, and a family meal.

Just because Mr. Ramsaran has appeared to move on with his life and shows no vengeance, nor sense of loss doesn't mean that we have given up.

I pray for an arrest this week. I want Jennifer's children to learn the truth as painful as it may be if only to not to be brainwashed or have a tainted perspective of their mother.

Happy Easter to all of you! :)
 
But what about his kids? He would have had to leave them alone in the middle of the night to do this, knowing that one might wake up and see he was gone. Knowing that he would know that LE would probably question the kids too, how would he explain his absence that hour of the night? Unless maybe he had an accomplice to do this for him?

JMO but it wouldn't be the first time someone left their kids alone at night to go get rid of a body or evidence that points at you. I think sometimes these folks just feel that the kids waking up is a risk they have to take. Knowing that LE would question the kids it might be a lot easier to explain why you were away from the home at night (just needed to go to the store real quick, went to look for missing person who disappeared in the night, etc.) than to explain, say, why the kids found a dead body in living room the morning or why your fingerprints are all over the murder weapon that you could have gotten rid of in the darkness of the night if you'd left your kids alone but didn't.


(I haven't really followed this case and I'm not aware of the particulars that might point to one person or another so this is just me speaking generally, not accusing anyone.)
 
Gosh, I'd love to see some verified LE weigh in on some of the questions here, especially considering how the CC sheriff's dept has been kicked around. I'm sure others here have seen situations like some of those for which they've drawn fire here -- such as dissuading the public from undertaking their own searches. I'd hazard a guess that most people here understand that there could be two sides to that sort of policy. I also seem to think that either LE or good journalists have done some useful work, given some of the statements I've read.

MJ Quote Snipped & BBM for focus By Me...


Quote by Foxfire: 'Can someone give me an example of another missing person case in the last decade or beyond where the Sheriff discouraged volunteer searchers, as was done in the Jennifer Ramsaran case'? Imo, this speaks volumes as to the attitude and professionalism in the Chenango County Sheriff's Department leadership and the leadership in the other Law Enforcement Agencies involved in her less than competent investigation, imo..

Montjoy, I am not sure that I would consider the CC Sheriff Cutter being kicked around, but simply questioned as to why he would squander his most valuable investigative resource; the American public.

By discouraging volunteer community searches, JR's remains were not located for over two months. Ironically, as in most cases, she was located by an aware citizen & his k9, checking his property. There was obviously severe damage & contamination caused by the elements and scavenger activity, imo, due to the probable unnecessary delay.

Media management is critical in missing/murder persons investigations in the 21st century. The CC Sheriffs Department media management policy is nonexistent, unless total Silence is considered a media management policy..

Imo, this antiquated media management policy of silence only leads to innocent victims lives lost and mounting cold cases...
 
Happy Easter!
I agree about the LE in this case. They could have left it with the NYSP, if they did not feel they were up to the task...and although I know many of the LE officers, from several jurisdictions, and am quite frustrated at the lack of providing even minimal public information. The elected officials in this case should have to be responsible also. My heart is sad...for Easter must have been an amazing holiday with JR as the mom...her artistic talent blows me away...I guess what makes me the most angry, is that those children are crime victims too.
 
This is just from memory, as I haven't gone back through threads for links, but I think missing 19-year-old Mom Brittney Wood (Alabama) was one case. Not only were searches forcefully discouraged, but help from other forces was refused too. She was also classed as voluntary missing for quite a while - despite the uncle she had gone to visit committing suicide a couple of days later, using Brittney's gun. He was due to be questioned about serious offences.

Brittney is still missing nearly a year later, and five or six members of her family have been charged with serious offences against children. Brittney's Mom has been in court to support those family members. Brittney's widowed Aunt (in jail now) is reported to have deleted messages from Brittney's phone and deleted her own online profile and postings, and has attacked those searching for her.

Klaaskids as well as public searches are being welcomed in her case now, and Brittney's no longer classed as voluntary missing. Climatic conditions in Alabama means it looks like she may be very hard to find at this stage. Brittney's Mom recently gave an interview saying Brittney's toddler had been told Mommy was at the store, and toddler was asking people to go fetch her Mommy home. Heartbreaking.

Later, this was emphatically denied by the people actually caring for Brittney's child.
 
Although TES was dispatched to Lafayette, LA when Mickey Shunick vanished, community volunteers came out in droves. Mighty Mick's investigation should be a template for all other missing persons cases across the US, imo...

Community involvement and awareness played an integral part in a successful conclusion/prosecution in Mickey Shunick & Lisa Pate's murder cases, imo. From abduction by a stranger sexual predator/serial killer, to conclusion of a confession, conviction, and LWOP sentencing in less than 90 days...

5/22/2012 : Search for Mickey Shunick Goes Viral on Social Media, National Media
http://www.katc.com/videos/search-for-mickey-shunick-goes-viral-on-social-media-national-media/
The search for Mickey Shunick has exploded on a national level and on social media. Before there were search parties on the ground, a Facebook campaign to find her was already in full swing.

An online team is working around the clock at the volunteer headquarters on Ryan Street. (read more - video)
 
This is just from memory, as I haven't gone back through threads for links, but I think missing 19-year-old Mom Brittney Wood (Alabama) was one case. Not only were searches forcefully discouraged, but help from other forces was refused too. She was also classed as voluntary missing for quite a while - despite the uncle she had gone to visit committing suicide a couple of days later, using Brittney's gun. He was due to be questioned about serious offences.

Brittney is still missing nearly a year later, and five or six members of her family have been charged with serious offences against children. Brittney's Mom has been in court to support those family members. Brittney's widowed Aunt (in jail now) is reported to have deleted messages from Brittney's phone and deleted her own online profile and postings, and has attacked those searching for her.

Klaaskids as well as public searches are being welcomed in her case now, and Brittney's no longer classed as voluntary missing. Climatic conditions in Alabama means it looks like she may be very hard to find at this stage. Brittney's Mom recently gave an interview saying Brittney's toddler had been told Mommy was at the store, and toddler was asking people to go fetch her Mommy home. Heartbreaking.

Later, this was emphatically denied by the people actually caring for Brittney's child.



06/14/2012

Tillman's Corner Mother Missing

(Baldwin County, Ala.) A local family continues to search for a Tillman's Corner teen who has been missing for a week.

19 year old Brittany Wood walked away from her mother's home last Wednesday leaving her two year old daughter behind.

She hasn't been seen since. Thursday family members called off a search along Styx River Road in Baldwin County to try and regroup and get more people to join in.

They say they tried to contact Wood last Friday to inform her that her uncle had committed suicide.

Her last cell phone transmission was located less than a mile away from her uncle's home.

"I believe it's a very odd coincidence. I don't know if it had anything to do with it or not," said Stephanie Hanke, Wood's stepmother.

"Please, Brittney, if you're out there, call us, call anybody, we need to hear your voice," she said.

If you have any information about Wood's whereabouts call the family at 251-625-9201 or call your local police department.

http://www.local15tv.com/news/local/...zIBm5sP_Q.cspx
 
Good thoughts.
IF the van (and body?) were in, say, the Plymouth Loop parking lot (about where Fred Stewart meets Center Road?), how did the perp get from there to his own vehicle or to his home or to a place where he could get a ride home? How far from there to Y? (10 or 12 miles?)

Would the body be in the van for 3 days?? What if someone decided to look in the van (or LE investigated a vehicle that had been sitting there 3 days)? If the van sat there for 3 days, in what state would the body be in? (20's at night) I'm thinking there'd be a good bit of purge fluid when body would be moved.

Then...he would have needed (on the night of 14th) to get back to the Plymouth Loop parking lot (how?) to retrieve the van (and then dump the body?) and then drive to Plank Road Manor. And from Plank Road manor, he'd have needed to get back to Plymouth Loop (assuming he left his own vehicle there) or get back to his home, or get back to somewhere where he could catch a ride home.

Unless...someone were dropping him off and picking him up at various locations.

I suggested Center Road area as a possibility for two reasons.

1. I'm not an expert on decomposition by any means, but I would imagine that biological factors would have began to occur. I would assume that one wouldn't be able to drive far, without being affected (unless perhaps the person had done something similar before, or they had worked in some capacity in forensics or funerary fields).

2. The van was covered in mud, which indicates that it may have been done so because of the possibility of one perhaps seeing it from a road.

I added the possibility of the location being the parking lot of the Plymouth Loop Trail for another reason.

If one travels south to north on Fred Stewart Road, and crosses 23, it comes out to One Eye Street.

One Eye Street is the same place where Chenango County's only known cold case took place in 1999.

Thomas "Tomcat" Lee Francisco

Snipped:
The Chenango County Sheriff's Office are continuing their investigation into the murder of Thomas Lee Francisco, age 38. On July 7th, 1999, Francisco was found dead by friends at approximately 5:00pm at his residential trailer located on One Eye Road in the Town of Pharsalia, Chenango County, NY. An autopsy revealed that Francisco was shot a number of times. Investigators are maintaining a Command Post at the Sheriff's Office in Norwich, NY.


MOO

As for distance... it's about 12 to 13 miles from the YMCA. Which... could be an indication as to why one wouldn't want to run home for it being "cold."

If GR had ran that route, and possibly cut through the woods in the park across from Plank Road Manor... and crossed Broad at Sunset and Borden... he could have arrived to the YMCA.

It would be roughly the same amount of time (and distance) he would have taken running to and from the YMCA.

If he set a certain distance to run daily, if he ran that full way, he would have run his normal approximate distance.

Jennifer's body being in the van for 2 or 3 days could explain the blood that LE may or may not have found in the van, which GR later tried to attribute to nosebleeds.

As for why nobody would have looked in the van... it's possible nobody even would have noticed it, especially if it was covered in mud. It may not necessarily have been in that parking lot.

Using the guise of going out to search, he could have driven his vehicle someplace, parked, and then had an accomplice pick him up to "tie loose ends."

After dropping off GR, the accomplice more than likely would have parked in the park across the street from Plank Road Manor, and await GR to arrive. It's possible that GR could have parked his vehicle in that park as well.

After driving to Plank Road Manor, he would return home in his own vehicle.

One thinks that it would defeat the purpose since he was the one that filed the missing person's complaint, but he would have had an obligation to do so if he didn't want to come under suspicion for her absence. If he had failed to do so, it would incriminate him.
 
But what about his kids? He would have had to leave them alone in the middle of the night to do this, knowing that one might wake up and see he was gone. Knowing that he would know that LE would probably question the kids too, how would he explain his absence that hour of the night? Unless maybe he had an accomplice to do this for him?

I think Donjeta explained it pretty well.

I would suggest the possibility that Jennifer's parents had arrived from Arizona by that point, so it's possible that the kids could have been staying in the house next door with them.

It's also possible that he wasn't gone for too long. Anywhere between a half hour and 45 minutes at minimum.
 
Have we finally reached a turning point?
I hope so, I think its wonderful to have so many people from around the world to help bring Jennifer and her family justice. But I think non locals are genuinely missing how truly tiny this county is. It’s very much like Mayberry. And I don’t think they realize Jennifer will never get justice until LE is held accountable
At this point I can’t see gr ever standing trial.(and I don’t think he will)…I think if they had something anything , why not arrest him now? There waiting, giving him time to flea? Or worse, taking others out with him before he goes down? As calculating as he was if? He did this, that tox report will be clean as a whistle.
LE is his biggest asset in his own defense.
Here is how I see it playing out in a trial.
The CCS is now attempting to appease public outrage and charge GR with this murder. When in truth they dropped the ball, and are now charging GR after the fact.
1 after you found blood in her van, and she had been missing for 5 days did you make a public press release?
2 did you utilize the local county newspaper and radio? Or did a writer from a county away make inquiries? The daily star serves only a portion of Chenango County, and offers no door step deliveries. So why did you not release, BLOOD found in missing Sunday school teacher’s van, at a local level?
2 did you inform her community, IE Sunday school teacher, Girl Scout leader? Vanished
3 at best don’t you think you should have been looking for a dazed and confused person wondering the woods were her phone was found? Just maybe she was out there for days? Alive .
4. Did you ever inform her community nothing of indication was found on her phone, computer or elsewhere?
5. How about a rd block? Say at the rt 23 rt 16 intersection. I suppose you had a road block in an attempt to ask daily commuters / local resident’s if they saw something, you know, to get the word out?....no .. Doesn’t other agency’s do that in similar events? often with successes ?
6 Did you ever clarify her hair color? We don’t know if she was blond or burnet?
7 Local business/ residential cameras. Did you secure them or even seek them out? Most likely they had the real killer on them.
8 Isn’t it true that Chenango County is currently in a massive heroin epidemic? Maybe on the morning of Dec 11th, she went into her van where a strung out heroin addict was lying in wait, maybe from the local trailer park close to her home. Or maybe she stopped to help a stranded female motorist. And it was a set up? Isn’t that possible… however slight the chance
10. After you canceled a volunteer search for Jennifer’s justice. Because you did not want evidence destroyed, than after finding her dead,,,,,, did you go out and search for that evidence yet.? Maybe it’s STILL ,out there pointing to the real killer
9 did she ever make it to the mall? No one told her community weather she did or didn’t.
11 what was the massive campaign ,after her body was found that ccs undertook in order to garnish to clues / information, that last dot you needed to connect all the dots together? NOTHING. Not a single press release? That’s why you only have one suspect isn’t it. Because you never gave Jennifer, or her family a chance for justice.
…… I can’t see a anyone murdering her, and coming back to that van….to move it ..why ? Why not leave it wherever it be. It doesn’t make a lick of sense to move the van again after committing murder. It was parked along a privacy, fence, dirty from rd slim. No public awareness about it for 2-3 days? No one would make a mental note of it setting there for 1 or 2 days. On the 3-4 day they would began to remember it. The most sensible thing is, it set there from the 11th to the day her father found it.
At this point only her family is looking for clues. As sad as it is, its became a hush hush issue around here. In my opinion
I don’t see anything on from ccs about it. He has not been named a poi .
What was the very last thing the sheriff said in the press ( I can’t speculate weather foul play was involved or not)………………
I can’t see why a single official statement has not been released by CCS since she has been found!!! CCS has a long standing professional relationship with the evening sun .Chenango county hometown newspaper. Nore has the evening sun itself put forth an article regarding this issue………..
The last thing (I think) I read about it was by the new editor. The editor of 23 years left just after jens body was discovered. Here is (I think) the last possible mention of the JR issue. (march22)
Quote:
To any and all who may think this paper has some sort of agenda, thumbs down. As it stands we are rolling with two talented reporters (if you know of anyone suited for that third position let me know) and we will continue to relate all aspects of every story to the best of our abilities .We are lucky to have our very own local paper. And I expect to see the same professionalism and integrity this publication has put forth for more than a century continue in the coming days, weeks and months to come.
Like I said (I think) it was regarding the JR issue… its on page 4 the (thumbs ) Colum.
The cover story’s for that day were,….NHS school purple pride week, retired senior volunteer program seeks volunteer driver. And the phoenix project dance preforms in Ottawa this weekend.
As a tax paying productive citizen in good standing with the law, my church, and my community .I would like to be informed, as to if I should be concern for my family’s safety or not. AT THE LEAST
If one is not on websleuths , does not read the daily star, they information they have is very very limited. And I often catch myself saying NO she did not run off and meet her demise because she was havening an online affair. He was the one that had the affair………
 
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