Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 2

[fringles]

Lavanda Dolce, thank you for joining the thread, and for explaining a little about what you do.

I was wondering if you could clear up a couple of things I'm confused about? I understand if it's not possible, and TIA.

- on the blogpost it states she was using a lightening rinse- would this be something along the lines of those shampoos that gradually lighten/help with the upkeep of lightened hair?

- I'm confused about the statement about the gas - since the car was found I don't really understand why it's important that her husband had filled the tank, or when he filled it?

About the Facebook page you mention, I appreciate what you're saying and I know you didn't imply any malicious intent on behalf of the creators but I wanted to note that I do believe that all the intentions behind that page were and are only good ones.

 

[sleepinoz]

IMO - Rinses don't lighten - they are temporary therefore NO lightening substances. They are usually a colour (sorry wrong english - color) that will darken or change the color of lighter strands of hair. I think this may give people the wrong idea of what her hair looks like. (unless ours are different to yours in the USA)

The 'Help Find' page is now being run by a voluntary organisation, I don't think it has to be a registered Non-profit organisation to volunteer to help. They have apparently been in existance since 2011 - so not that new to this. These are not the same people that started the page, they have done the same as the 'Missing' page and called in 'experts' as is stated on the page, the 'missing' page has not stated this so I imagine followers are unaware.

"Does not want to divulge their Identity" - they have Identified themselves on the page, the 'missing' page has not.

IMO - No new news on the blog site - just more 'believe me' statements.

I agree with removing the childrens photo's, but I can't specifically remember seeing them there, as they are all over many other pages belonging to family etc.

 

[krey]

I do have a couple of questions for you, Lavanda, and appreciate your offer to answer what you can. (Actually, I have a ton of questions, but will narrow it down to just a couple!)

1. Why has no press conference been called? Why no public pleas to Jennifer, in case she is out there, to let someone know that she's safe?

2. Why hasn't LE been conducting wide-spread, ongoing searches to look for Jennifer?

 

[momrids6]

The great thing about WS, the WWW, and the US of A- everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are also free to use whatever services we desire, as well as any number of social media outlets, newspapers, groups, forums, and investigators.

If certain ideas and theories are contrary to our beliefs, we are free to express that.

Many good people with good intentions try to help others who have no voice. Most WS members put much thought into every post, and are also members of communties, non-profit groups, and/or have professsional expertise. Folks have their own reasons for becoming verified or not.

Of course, having a gut feeling or an idea does not require a license, affliation, or a college degree. One should not feel "less than" for expressing their feelings- which are as valid as anyone else's; no matter what their background.

Silence is a result of the feeling of being put down. Silence benefits the dominant, the aggressive, and the criminal. Intimidation is akin to bullying and causes fear purposely- trying to silence another's beliefs with force.

Shaming or blaming others for assumed "inexperience" attempts to make one person, group, idea, or opinion superior to another. Life has provided expert experience to draw from for most.

Jennifer's father found her van, and her husband found her phone- and I have not heard that either has SAR experience.

There is great blocking software available- as well as simply turning off internet access when children are viewing things that are inappropriate.

Due to the cutbacks in almost every LE in the country, concerned citizens are needed more than ever to provide assistance, information, and comfort. Community policing is vital to maintaing a positive place for all to live.

 

[momrids6]

The missing organizations that I am fortunate enough to be a part of are advocates for the missing person. Just as CASA represents the child's best interests- not the parents' or the goverment's. I consider the Help Find FB page the official page of the community which is advocating for one of their own. True "help thy neighbor".

Yes, they now have a professional helping them, but if a license or tax ID was needed to help those in need, there would be very few volunteers in this world.

Rights to information dissemination, feelings, theories, and gossip are not automatically given to a spouse, nor a contracted company- or there would be no "News", or freedom of information. The First Amendment- freedom of speech.

Searching one's community, own private land- or others' with permission, state and county parks, streets and common areas are absolutely not cause for concern over being charged with obstruction or interference.

Thinly veiled threats and purposefully misleading communication that gloss over violations of one's freedom to do so should be brought up with law enforcement or public officials.

 

[sleepinoz]

Strange that there is no link to the blog on the Missing site, yet they give to us here!!

 

[krey]

<modsnip>

<modsnip>

Can we take this to believe that homicide investigators are on the case?? Does anyone know if this is truly typical, or if it indicates that evidence was found to suggest foul play? I know the blog says that it is not unusual, but given that the blog leans so heavily in favor of the husband, I feel the need (and the right) to question this point.

 

[sleepinoz]

~respectfully snipped~

<modsnip>

Can we take this to believe that homicide investigators are on the case?? Does anyone know if this is truly typical, or if it indicates that evidence was found to suggest foul play? I know the blog says that it is not unusual, but given that the blog is leans so heavily in favor of the husband, I feel the need (and the right) to question this point.

Could she mean they were involved as in the search of the home when there were several different agencies such as FBI etc.

 

[krey]

Searching one's community, own private land- or others' with permission, state and county parks, streets and common areas are absolutely not cause for concern over being charged with obstruction or interference.

Thinly veiled threats and purposefully misleading communication that gloss over violations of one's freedom to do so should be brought up with law enforcement or public officials.

~respectfully snipped~

Bravo for saying this!!! :rocker:

It seems like certain parties are resorting to fear tactics to try to keep people from searching. No one wants, or intends, to do anything illegal or unhelpful - there is no need for the threats.

 

[krey]

Could she mean they were involved as in the search of the home when there were several different agencies such as FBI etc.

Hmm, maybe so. Good point. I was thinking she meant they've been involved, and remain involved, but I was just assuming. Do homicide investigators typically come on scene when a person is reported as missing?

 

[sleepinoz]

I really don't know krey, your laws could be very different to ours over here.

 

[fringles]

There is great blocking software available- as well as simply turning off internet access when children are viewing things that are inappropriate.

Momrids6 thank you for your extremely eloquent posts above. I wish I could 'thank' them more then once!

I do hope the family is following this particular piece of advice, too- I'm sure the children's school would agree to block this site also, if they're going online there. IMO no child should be reading here.

 

[fringles]

I'm trying to think- what cases can people remember where a person was missing with no prior history of running, no note, no action on bank accounts etc, and they left on their own?

I know Ivy went, but she left a note, if I recall? And I think she came back quicker than this?

 

[krey]

I'm trying to think- what cases can people remember where a person was missing with no prior history of running, no note, no action on bank accounts etc, and they left on their own?

I know Ivy went, but she left a note, if I recall? And I think she came back quicker than this?

Yes, Ivy left notes for her parents and roommate in her vehicle, which she abandoned in a shopping center parking lot. She was gone for 3 weeks before turning up in Miami, FL, apparently living on the beach (is what we were told). While she was gone, she had zero activity on internet, bank, or phone accounts. And no prior history of running off, far as we know.

There's another recent case, Jeanne Rysiewicz, a 26-year-old who walked away from her family before boarding a flight, exited the airport, and vanished. She's been gone for 4 months now without a peep. She left her cell phone and belongings in the airport. No history of psychiatric problems, and no history of this sort of behavior, as far as I know. Very bizarre.
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/10/13/4333608/family-searches-for-daughter-who.html

 

[momrids6]

I'm trying to think- what cases can people remember where a person was missing with no prior history of running, no note, no action on bank accounts etc, and they left on their own?

I know Ivy went, but she left a note, if I recall? And I think she came back quicker than this?

Her disappearance was investigated due to circumstances surrounding it that LE was privy to.

There are some- but if they are found- LE states they have been found. They will not disclose without the person's permission where they are, but will let family & public know they were located.

LE usually states "no indication of foul play" very quickly when an adult is missing and nothing looks criminal surrounding the disappearance. They tend not to want to allocate resources to an individual who is free and mentally sound to make their own decisions.

 

[terrortag]

IMO, He should have called LE and told them where the app said her phone was. If it turned out the app was incorrect it would have been no big deal. In fact, I think it would let LE know that he wants to be helpful but also knows he needs to be careful. So, for me the question is what was his purpose for going there alone? Did he think maybe she would be there on the side of the road, alive and well and that he could talk her into coming home and everybody could just forget this whole "misunderstanding"? Or did he believe she might have been accidentally injured? If that's what he was thinking then why not call 911 as soon as the app told him where the phone was so that they could help her asap as opposed to him going there, finding her, and then calling 911 for help?

Hi MissieMt, and thanks for the welcome!

Re: the phone, I guess I try to put myself in his shoes and I can't help but feel that if I found out that my missing loved one was potentially nearby I would want to go and check it myself immediately. That may not be the smartest thing to do, but I can imagine your desperation outweighing your common sense. And is it possible that, given how hands-off the community here on WS feels that law enforcement has been with this case, he went alone feeling that same sense of lack of help?

I know that last suggestion is reaching, and I'd put more stock in the feeling of desperation driving him to go rather than think through who to contact first. Just my opinion, of course.

[OT: I just realized that my username might seem inappropriate - given it could be shortened to "terror"! It comes from an old kids' film, The Worst Witch, where the kids play "terror tag" and try to scare each other. I use it on the web and didn't think about how awful "terror" might seem on a site like this. Whoops!]

 

[terracotta]

momrids6 - thank you, very well said!

 

[terracotta]

http://jenniferramsaran.blogspot.com/

Interesting...I have never seen on any missing website so much space given to the spouse of the missing person, their alibis and their feelings. Isn't this about Jennifer? Why wouldn't there be more information about her. Once again...it is about the husband, not jennifer.....interesting.

 

[momrids6]

http://jenniferramsaran.blogspot.com/

Interesting...I have never seen on any missing website so much space given to the spouse of the missing person, their alibis and their feelings. Isn't this about Jennifer? Why wouldn't there be more information about her. Once again...it is about the husband, not jennifer.....interesting.

As it is not considered fact; i.e. a direct statement from LE, they are free to blog about whatever opinion they choose- however, the title is misleading, imo as it implies it is about Jennifer.
I have never seen something like this from CUE or an SAR team- only a defense attorney.

Offering advice after condemnation while refusing to work with someone glaringly shows certain parties' true motivation as recognition, not common good.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

The great thing about WS, the WWW, and the US of A- everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are also free to use whatever services we desire, as well as any number of social media outlets, newspapers, groups, forums, and investigators.

If certain ideas and theories are contrary to our beliefs, we are free to express that.

Many good people with good intentions try to help others who have no voice. Most WS members put much thought into every post, and are also members of communties, non-profit groups, and/or have professsional expertise. Folks have their own reasons for becoming verified or not.

Of course, having a gut feeling or an idea does not require a license, affliation, or a college degree. One should not feel "less than" for expressing their feelings- which are as valid as anyone else's; no matter what their background.

Silence is a result of the feeling of being put down. Silence benefits the dominant, the aggressive, and the criminal. Intimidation is akin to bullying and causes fear purposely- trying to silence another's beliefs with force.

Shaming or blaming others for assumed "inexperience" attempts to make one person, group, idea, or opinion superior to another. Life has provided expert experience to draw from for most.

Jennifer's father found her van, and her husband found her phone- and I have not heard that either has SAR experience.

There is great blocking software available- as well as simply turning off internet access when children are viewing things that are inappropriate.

Due to the cutbacks in almost every LE in the country, concerned citizens are needed more than ever to provide assistance, information, and comfort. Community policing is vital to maintaing a positive place for all to live.

:goodpost:

Thanks button wasn't enough!