Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 3

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Was father at home when the children returned from school, or did he drive them home at pickup time?

Was it a regular after school afternoon, or did they all have after school activities/practices, etc. that day?
 
Was father at home when the children returned from school, or did he drive them home at pickup time?

Was it a regular after school afternoon, or did they all have after school activities/practices, etc. that day?

Sorry epiphany, I don't have an answer for either question.
 
Hi ORR - thanks for your concern re Jennifer and the family.

Sorry, I don't know what cell phone service they subscribe to.

Don't know the gas level but can tell you the van was described to me as looking like it had been "off-roading". I took that to mean there was a substantial amount of mud on the vehicle.

Thinking out loud - Wouldn't a killer, if had been off roading with her van, to dump the body, have taken the van to get it cleaned off (perhaps, but if people are looking for it, very risky in town at a car wash I agree). If the lookout for the van was active, the Van IMO wouldn't have been driven far where it could have easily been spotted.

If coming back into town from the direction where the cell phone was tossed, I'd look at Blackman Road (that's a seasonal road and a van could get through that road but would get covered in mud to make it, especially in December), or John Smith Road (another seasonal one that leads up to Jackson Pond (one I've suspected all along as a VERY remote area and not Public), else all of the roads between SR23 and County Route 16 would be VERY muddy out there as they are all seasonal. South of State Route 23 out in that general area is the North Road, that leads up to (heading back towards Norwich) the CCC Truck Trail through the New Michigan State Forest (has the Finger Lakes Trail running through it), and that Truck Trail leads back to Blackman Road (and close to Round Pond - another area on Private Land) bordering the State Land.

Between her house and where the van was dumped, there aren't as many (Muddy off roading roads) as there are over here west of State Route 12. To get muddy over east of State Route 12, you'd have to go east from where she lived and then back west to where the van / phone was found.

Thanks RB - appreciate the info.

Do you have details as to what GR says he was doing. I already have from Lavonda that he was supposed signed into his work server all moring working from home. But when did he leave to go running? When did he get home? When did the kids find out?

RB - do you think that more searches should be conducted?

Thanks again!!
 
When testing of the samples of mud on the vehicle are concluded and a location or a few locations of where the samples have been determined to come from are learned, then is it likely other searches for Jennifer will occur?
 
Timeline may factor into why the minivan was left with mud on it...pressed for time.
 
Just a brief post to say thank you to all for the warm welcome.

I sincerely hope and pray we get to the bottom of this continuing nightmare.:please:
 
There are a ton of areas that are muddy this time of year. Most of the side roads west of Norwich are seasonal that turn info Snowmobile roads in the winter.

Put together this graphic as a possible scenario. Driven out SR23 to either the Jackson Pond area on John Smith Road, or out to the North Road, over to the CCC Truck trail (north road can be muddy too), back by the Round Pond, then continue on CCC Truck Trail, down the Black Man Road (going up it would be tough as hell in a mini van), down to Reservoir Hill Road to the upper portion of Moon Hill Road (it looks like Moon Hill doesn't go all the way to SR 23 but it does (1/2 mile section is seasonal) and then back on SR23 into Norwich and dump the van... The Van was found where the 23 symbol is on the west side of Norwich. This would take about an hour or so given the route, body hiding, and back into town. (The Airplane at the Airport basically points North). The 23 symbol east of Norwich is not far from where Jennifer lived.

A = Where her phone was found
B = Jackson Pond
C = Round Pond
D = Seasonal road sign on upper portion of Moon Hill Road

Will post the image when it's working.. as I can't get it to load.
 
Thinking out loud - Wouldn't a killer, if had been off roading with her van, to dump the body, have taken the van to get it cleaned off (perhaps, but if people are looking for it, very risky in town at a car wash I agree). If the lookout for the van was active, the Van IMO wouldn't have been driven far where it could have easily been spotted.

If coming back into town from the direction where the cell phone was tossed, I'd look at Blackman Road (that's a seasonal road and a van could get through that road but would get covered in mud to make it, especially in December), or John Smith Road (another seasonal one that leads up to Jackson Pond (one I've suspected all along as a VERY remote area and not Public), else all of the roads between SR23 and County Route 16 would be VERY muddy out there as they are all seasonal. South of State Route 23 out in that general area is the North Road, that leads up to (heading back towards Norwich) the CCC Truck Trail through the New Michigan State Forest (has the Finger Lakes Trail running through it), and that Truck Trail leads back to Blackman Road (and close to Round Pond - another area on Private Land) bordering the State Land.

Between her house and where the van was dumped, there aren't as many (Muddy off roading roads) as there are over here west of State Route 12. To get muddy over east of State Route 12, you'd have to go east from where she lived and then back west to where the van / phone was found.

Thanks RB - appreciate the info.Do you have details as to what GR says he was doing. I already have from Lavonda that he was supposed signed into his work server all moring working from home. But when did he leave to go running? When did he get home? When did the kids find out?

RB - do you think that more searches should be conducted? Thanks again!!

You're welcome. I'm not at liberty to say re leave and return times.
Not sure when the kids found out.

Yes, I think additional searches should be conducted and I'm sure they will be. Can't say when though.
 
Just a brief post to say thank you to all for the warm welcome.

I sincerely hope and pray we get to the bottom of this continuing nightmare.:please:

Thanks so much for being with us and sharing what info you can.
 
Or a substantial amount of mud remained on the minivan because it was temporarily left elsewhere, and then later retrieved and driven to its final location.

It could not be cleaned off because of the lookout for the van (ORR's post above).

Very risky drop-off, though.
 
Just a brief post to say thank you to all for the warm welcome.

I sincerely hope and pray we get to the bottom of this continuing nightmare.:please:

Thank YOU!
I know I was starting to lose hope that we'd ever get any concrete answers.
 
I'm not sure if you didn't see it because the page turned or if you can't answer.

Do you know (I'm assuming they go South for the winter) when Jennifer's parents left for the season.

Sorry to repeat, everyone, my OCD is kicking in.
 
Or a substantial amount of mud remained on the minivan because it was temporarily left elsewhere, and then later retrieved and driven to its final location.

It could not be cleaned off because of the lookout for the van (ORR's post above).

Very risky drop-off, though.

BBM - May have been done under the cover of darkness?.
 
:banghead:
There are a ton of areas that are muddy this time of year. Most of the side roads west of Norwich are seasonal that turn info Snowmobile roads in the winter.

Put together this graphic as a possible scenario. Driven out SR23 to either the Jackson Pond area on John Smith Road, or out to the North Road, over to the CCC Truck trail (north road can be muddy too), back by the Round Pond, then continue on CCC Truck Trail, down the Black Man Road (going up it would be tough as hell in a mini van), down to Reservoir Hill Road to the upper portion of Moon Hill Road (it looks like Moon Hill doesn't go all the way to SR 23 but it does (1/2 mile section is seasonal) and then back on SR23 into Norwich and dump the van... The Van was found where the 23 symbol is on the west side of Norwich. This would take about an hour or so given the route, body hiding, and back into town. (The Airplane at the Airport basically points North). The 23 symbol east of Norwich is not far from where Jennifer lived.

A = Where her phone was found
B = Jackson Pond
C = Round Pond
D = Seasonal road sign on upper portion of Moon Hill Road

Will post the image when it's working.. as I can't get it to load.

How far is the apartment complex from SR23?
 
There are a ton of areas that are muddy this time of year. Most of the side roads west of Norwich are seasonal that turn info Snowmobile roads in the winter.

Put together this graphic as a possible scenario. Driven out SR23 to either the Jackson Pond area on John Smith Road, or out to the North Road, over to the CCC Truck trail (north road can be muddy too), back by the Round Pond, then continue on CCC Truck Trail, down the Black Man Road (going up it would be tough as hell in a mini van), down to Reservoir Hill Road to the upper portion of Moon Hill Road (it looks like Moon Hill doesn't go all the way to SR 23 but it does (1/2 mile section is seasonal) and then back on SR23 into Norwich and dump the van... The Van was found where the 23 symbol is on the west side of Norwich. This would take about an hour or so given the route, body hiding, and back into town. (The Airplane at the Airport basically points North). The 23 symbol east of Norwich is not far from where Jennifer lived.

A = Where her phone was found
B = Jackson Pond
C = Round Pond
D = Seasonal road sign on upper portion of Moon Hill Road

Will post the image when it's working.. as I can't get it to load.

Oh my...

DH and I are (well... Were... When we were younger.. :smile: ) avid off roaders... 4 WD Jeeps.... Blown tires.... We loved it!

I am so impressed with your knowledge of the roads in JR's area...

You made an important point .... That a van would not be able to traverse some of the roads that a 4WD jeep type vehicle could.... And I don't imagine JR would want to get her van dirty/scratched/defaced...

therefore... I would think... As you have said...that the use of the van for off reading would narrow down which roads could have been used...

JMO
 
I made a media thread for Jennifer. We can also put the maps on it as well. I will do that if I get a chance tomorrow evening. If anyone wants to add news or maps its open.

Media, Maps and Timelines

2afcqoo.gif
 
I'm not sure if you didn't see it because the page turned or if you can't answer.

Do you know (I'm assuming they go South for the winter) when Jennifer's parents left for the season.

Sorry to repeat, everyone, my OCD is kicking in.

I'm sorry I missed this the first time around Sharoneonta. I believe they leave after Thanksgiving. And not South, but their winter home in Arizona.
 
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