Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 5

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^^ yes good point to consider

Unless, and I do not mean this disrespectfully, she had already detached emotionally and had become devoid of showing any type emotion

I know we've seen a lot is those who have searched say that community members say she was mother dedicated to her family. I wonder what the timing of their last sightings of her were? Also if anyone had seen anything that conflicts with this that would support any detachment possibilities?
 
OMGosh! My head is spinning...so much great brainstorming going on here!

I thought the Lavonda's discovery about the mud near where the phone was found was very interesting. Especially, if it is true that there was supposed to be a search in that area that GR opposed to.

Also, I have agreed with Lavonda about the importance of sending the message to the person who is missing that it is OK to come home, you are loved and missed. However, I think GR and ES have sent a much different message through their actions. Actions do speak louder than words. How loved was Jennifer???

The flyers that have been taken down are very suspicious to me.<Modsnip>.



Where did this info come from that flyers were being taken down?

We are not going to discuss what is on FB or any Social network so please don't bring any of that here.
 
Yes Caring4...I am reminded of the dramaturgical perspective - easiest way I can explain, is there is the stage where one presents themselves to the public, and the backstage is private. (all the world's a stage) How she acted or presented herself may have varied greatly depending on the specific viewer. It would be interesting to note if those on the outside could look back and detect any subtle differences in her, considering she is now missing. And reflect on how that may impact the situation.
 
Where did this info come from that flyers were being taken down?

We are not going to discuss what is on FB or any Social network so please don't bring any of that here.

In the last thread it was said by a few people that were in the community for the event. I don't recall the specifics of each post, I can go back & look but I'm on my phone at the moment. I do know it was more than one, as initially I thought it was just one persons misinterpretation of an area covered. Sorry not very helpful...maybe someone else can find it before I get home & an find the exact posts?
 
In the last thread it was said by a few people that were in the community for the event. I don't recall the specifics of each post, I can go back & look but I'm on my phone at the moment. I do know it was more than one, as initially I thought it was just one persons misinterpretation of an area covered. Sorry not very helpful...maybe someone else can find it before I get home & an find the exact posts?

Thank you Caring4Many!

So its nothing that came from the news or LE, right? I mean wasn't it something someone here said someone in town said?

Ima
 
thank you Fox, Piper & ORR for the landfill/dumpster info.Fox, would be interesting to know if that landfill is adequately fenced in or not, or any possible exterior entry points or not.

It would be interesting to know if mud was found inside the van, considering it was unusually muddy on the outside.

As far as 'something' occurring in the daytime...can someone kindly refresh me on When she was reported missing?

In another direction- is it possible that 'hope' seemed bleak initially, but with an investigation moving forward, that facts have been discovered we are not privy to, that might give a glimmer of 'hope'?
GR reported he last saw JR when she left their home to go to Destiny,USA at about 10:30 a.m.

WSers... Please correct me if I am wrong...

JMO
 
Thank you Caring4Many!

So its nothing that came from the news or LE, right? I mean wasn't it something someone here said someone in town said?

Ima

Verified insider and locals.
 
Verified insider and locals.

Correct & I believe Bearangel reported the same as well on his search-trying to find the post now.

Unfortunately LE hasn't said anything on the case in over a month so I don't see anything online in regards to this subject. WSers please correct me if any of this is wrong & keep me honest.
 
Before I retired my career(s) for health reasons, for 20 years I also worked remotely, via VPN access for a total of 3 companies, the more recent of which is very large and well known. In earlier years, I logged in via desk top or laptop and in more recent years also had the capability to login via phone.

Depending on the companies policies, some may require you to login and out only once, when you start for the day, and then you finish work for that day; others require logging in and out for breaks and lunch. Many companies have the capability to "look in" on an employee's work session to "see" (via keystrokes or other indicators) what they are doing that very minute, however, this is very seldom utilized, (as it would not be cost effective to be monitoring every employee that closely and if you do have to monitor them that closely, why are they working remotely and not in the office or for the company at all).

The only time "real time" monitoring would be utilized in my experience anyway, would be immediately prior to some sort of disciplinary action (pertaining to suspicion of abuse of the system, etc.) Some companies generate reports the following day or weekly to keep track of a persons production while working remotely (tracking keystrokes, items processed, etc), but again, rarely is anything utilized "live" - all that is "seen" is that you are logged into the system, not your physical location.

As such, time can easily be manipulated to suit ones personal agenda. I personally know of people who have logged into VPN at work and then immediately left to take their kids to the doctors, dogs to their vets, who take 2 hour long lunches, who go shopping, etc. I've known people who made an ungodly amount of money by watching TV in one room, and once every half hour or hour getting up and taking 5 minutes to "work" by adjudicating a single insurance claim, and then returning to watch TV (this, in the instance of VPN with a time-out feature).

I've known of people who've painted the entire interior of their homes and "worked" at the same time, cooked dinner, cleaned house, weeded their gardens,........ And all of the above was with desk-top or lap-top VPN access only - with VPN access via phone? The possibilities for manipulation are endless! If there is a VPN inactivity "time out" feature, a simple flip of a screen would keep one connected...

Could one manipulate the system day in and day out and not get caught? I guess it's possible - depends on your job (see below) - however - during a 24 - 48 hour period - easily - it may never be noticed - and if he was questioned about a "lack of production" on those dates, he could claim he was worried about his wife.....

IMO VPN and/or WebEx as an alibi, doesn't hold water - nothing solid about it - more like a sieve, if you ask me?

(BTW - I'm *not stating that everyone with VPN access does the above or that I have done this myself, I have not (have been tempted!) - I know that there are wonderful people who work better at home w/VPN than they do in office (myself included) - however, I assisted in founding the "work-at-home remote" program for each of these companies and when production numbers indicated we might have a problem w/a few folks seriously abusing the privledge (for weeks on end), I was asked to do footwork and investigate (because I do that too) hence the examples above.)

Sorry, didn't mean for this to be so long.....

Thank you very much for describing the intricacies of working via VPN...

This was very enlightening to me!

:seeya:
 
Before I retired my career(s) for health reasons, for 20 years I also worked remotely, via VPN access for a total of 3 companies, the more recent of which is very large and well known. In earlier years, I logged in via desk top or laptop and in more recent years also had the capability to login via phone.

Depending on the companies policies, some may require you to login and out only once, when you start for the day, and then you finish work for that day; others require logging in and out for breaks and lunch. Many companies have the capability to "look in" on an employee's work session to "see" (via keystrokes or other indicators) what they are doing that very minute, however, this is very seldom utilized, (as it would not be cost effective to be monitoring every employee that closely and if you do have to monitor them that closely, why are they working remotely and not in the office or for the company at all).

The only time "real time" monitoring would be utilized in my experience anyway, would be immediately prior to some sort of disciplinary action (pertaining to suspicion of abuse of the system, etc.) Some companies generate reports the following day or weekly to keep track of a persons production while working remotely (tracking keystrokes, items processed, etc), but again, rarely is anything utilized "live" - all that is "seen" is that you are logged into the system, not your physical location.

As such, time can easily be manipulated to suit ones personal agenda. I personally know of people who have logged into VPN at work and then immediately left to take their kids to the doctors, dogs to their vets, who take 2 hour long lunches, who go shopping, etc. I've known people who made an ungodly amount of money by watching TV in one room, and once every half hour or hour getting up and taking 5 minutes to "work" by adjudicating a single insurance claim, and then returning to watch TV (this, in the instance of VPN with a time-out feature).

I've known of people who've painted the entire interior of their homes and "worked" at the same time, cooked dinner, cleaned house, weeded their gardens,........ And all of the above was with desk-top or lap-top VPN access only - with VPN access via phone? The possibilities for manipulation are endless! If there is a VPN inactivity "time out" feature, a simple flip of a screen would keep one connected...

Could one manipulate the system day in and day out and not get caught? I guess it's possible - depends on your job (see below) - however - during a 24 - 48 hour period - easily - it may never be noticed - and if he was questioned about a "lack of production" on those dates, he could claim he was worried about his wife.....

IMO VPN and/or WebEx as an alibi, doesn't hold water - nothing solid about it - more like a sieve, if you ask me?

(BTW - I'm *not stating that everyone with VPN access does the above or that I have done this myself, I have not (have been tempted!) - I know that there are wonderful people who work better at home w/VPN than they do in office (myself included) - however, I assisted in founding the "work-at-home remote" program for each of these companies and when production numbers indicated we might have a problem w/a few folks seriously abusing the privledge (for weeks on end), I was asked to do footwork and investigate (because I do that too) hence the examples above.)

Sorry, didn't mean for this to be so long.....

This definitely does indicate how the VPN can easily be manipulated...,and that the records of an individual's time worked would not be an "air-tight" alibi, at all!

JMO
 
I don't believe I recall it being said who was removing fliers, only that there appeared to be fliers missing where they were originally posted.
 
Correct & I believe Bearangel reported the same as well on his search-trying to find the post now.

Unfortunately LE hasn't said anything on the case in over a month so I don't see anything online in regards to this subject. WSers please correct me if any of this is wrong & keep me honest.

Snipped from BearA's Post:

The one thing that is troubling me is this...we put up flyers...and later...they disappear...so we put them back up...poof gone...but it does tell us that either folks care a lot...or someone is removing them...mostly in a 20 mile radius
Again, thank you for being there today Jillian...


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #4
 
Where did this info come from that flyers were being taken down?

We are not going to discuss what is on FB or any Social network so please don't bring any of that here.

I gave that information. I've seen it first hand, and also been told by several people that it's happening.
Bear noticed this as well, across a 20-mile radius.
Has nothing to do with FB or any social network.
The point of the post is to state that 1) it's suspicious that someone is doing this, and 2) it's important to remember to keep flyers around to "restock" when need be.
A lot of locals who aren't registered here, but do view the posts need this information, IMO.

:)
 
BBM - JR was reported missing about 8 p.m. on Dec. 11.

Oops... Please excuse my post above...

I interpreted the question to be when was the last time she was seen...

Yes... The official missing report was made later that night...

JMO
 
I gave that information. I've seen it first hand, and also been told by several people that's it's happening.
Bear noticed this as well, across a 20-mile radius.
Has nothing to do with FB or any social network.
The point of the post is to state that 1) it's suspicious that someone is doing this, and 2) it's important to remember to keep flyers around to "restock" when need be.
A lot of locals who aren't registered here, but do view the posts need this information, IMO.

:)

Jillian, first of all I never said it had anything to do with FB and what I removed did have to be with talking about the fighting going on FB and its not allowed. Second... Are you saying that you seen Jennifer's husband removing flyers about Jennifer missing? or is it just 'someone'?
 
Thank you to Epiphany & Jillian-not the easiest to search on my phone.
 
A timeline would help. When did the kids leave? When did GR go running? When did he pick up the kids? what did he do that evening? How was he both working from home and out running? There are really no definitive timeline events except him being seen in the sauna and the kids leaving. Everything else, including JRs plans to go to the mall are from him. lavonda cites his air tight alibi. That raises flags with me. Most days i am all over the place and would have a tough time accounting for my activities in an 'airtight' way. Sure I have a routine, but its mostly my word that i was where i said for the whole day. It raises flags with me that someone with such a fluid and independent schedule like GR happens to have an Airtight alibi for the whole day his wife goes missing. Why did he go running in the middle of a day when he is saying he was logged in to various work accounts. I want to see a timeline of that whole day, but the info just is not out there.

Good point... Most persons working from home, SAHM, retired, etc...,and who is not employed at a place where s/he is seen by others... Would have a very difficult time delivering an "air-tight alibi" for their activities on most given days...myself included (I am joyfully retired)!

So... I would be VERY interested in viewing a timeline supporting an "air-tight alibi" for GR on Dec. 11th...

JMO
 
Ladybug, thank you for that info on VPN. My SIL currently works from the cloud and has described the same type of situation.

If she has something she "has" to do she told me that she creates a meeting that only she is invited to and takes her child to the doctor, etc (she does not abuse it lol.. this is just an example)

She further told me (as you are describing) that it is very easy to appear you are up in the cloud working away while you really are not.

Onto another topic: I saw it asked a few times on the last thread but not answered: were Jennifer's parents/her family at this event?

I really wonder, too, if JR's parents/sister/etc. (blood relatives) were invited to the "Lantern Release".

I have seen this question asked more than once on JRs' threads... But have not seen a reply...

JMO
 
Where did this info come from that flyers were being taken down?

We are not going to discuss what is on FB or any Social network so please don't bring any of that here.

I think this us what Jillian was referring to about FB.
I don't recall anyone saying who specifically was doing it-others may given ideas that include GR or ES & why they would-but I don't recall any if us stating that we knew it was him.

Again-WSers keep me honest here.

Just a curiosity question-where are the TOS on WS? I've never seen on any other forums so many issues come up with the content & I want to ensure I'm staying within them. Thanks!
 
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