Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 8

[Bettylou4you]

I do have faith in LE. Obviously they do not think there is danger from some maniac running around town. There is so much circumstantial evidence in this case that they could probably get a grand jury to indict GR now, just with what we know here. I am sure they have a lit of forensic and physical evidence. If things were found in the tox report they could be tracking down where and who purchased them. Not to say its a crime-free area, but what else do they have to do but build this case? They could be making GR sweat while they amass a case and see if he cracks. You think the silence is frustrating to us, imaging how deafening it is for the guilty party. Its like the Telltale Heart, they will crack it big soon I have faith. With all the interviews and followups it is inconcievable that they do not have a case. They will have to satisfy the District Attorney that they have a winable case before they make an arrest.

 

[cluciano63]

I do have faith in LE. Obviously they do not think there is danger from some maniac running around town. There is so much circumstantial evidence in this case that they could probably get a grand jury to indict GR now, just with what we know here. I am sure they have a lit of forensic and physical evidence. If things were found in the tox report they could be tracking down where and who purchased them. Not to say its a crime-free area, but what else do they have to do but build this case? They could be making GR sweat while they amass a case and see if he cracks. You think the silence is frustrating to us, imaging how deafening it is for the guilty party. Its like the Telltale Heart, they will crack it big soon I have faith. With all the interviews and followups it is inconcievable that they do not have a case. They will have to satisfy the District Attorney that they have a winable case before they make an arrest.

If they had a case, there would be no reason to wait, Imo.

 

[zwiebel]

The whole situation must be so stressful for all concerned. I wonder if Jennifer's husband is considering taking the children abroad, to get away from it all? There's nothing to stop him, after all.

 

[dansmom]

I believe that there will be enough evidence to indict: I was on the Chenango County Grand Jury and from my experience this case will be easy , like has been said here. Lots of circumstantial evidence. Waiting for all the results and follow up is good police work. If it makes the guilty party sweat, all the better. Sometimes you get a better deal when you confess and save the state hundreds of thousands of dollars in investigative fees and trial costs. Also, the guilty party can save tons of money for their canteen card when they go to jail ( to buy food, make phone calls, shampoo and soap). A win-win if there can be one in a case where a women is killed.
A real man would not have killed a women, and A real man would save his parents and children from having to testify....food for thought.

:moo:

 

[cluciano63]

I worry when there are children involved, who are with the possible suspect, a la Josh Powell. You cannot be too careful. That is why I do not think LE would wait if they had the necessary evidence to charge.

 

[Montjoy]

Yes, what evidence is there of anything other than what would appear to be a bad and unfaithful husband? (This isn't a rhetorical question, I don't know.) I don't know enough about the blood found in the van, but if her body didn't have visible trauma to suggest homicide, then what can be read into the blood? That her husband seems like a cad and there is no other likely perp does not in itself constitute circumstantial evidence.

 

[zwiebel]

O/T but, wonderful avatar, Montjoy.

 

[cluciano63]

Yes, what evidence is there of anything other than what would appear to be a bad and unfaithful husband? (This isn't a rhetorical question, I don't know.) I don't know enough about the blood found in the van, but if her body didn't have visible trauma to suggest homicide, then what can be read into the blood? That her husband seems like a cad and there is no other likely perp does not in itself constitute circumstantial evidence.

Indeed, we do not even know if this is a homicide as yet. Of course, the way she was found is suspicious, but if she is found to have consumed a lethal amount of meds, for instance, LE may have a hard time proving she did not take them herself. While her husband has said and behaved in a most unusual manner, that won't be enough, IMO.

Hoping LE's silence means they do not need help from the public, rather than that they do not even know what sort of case they have.

 

[zwiebel]

I dunno, naked? Down an embankment?

Murderers - and fake suiciders - often make the fundamental mistake of leaving a pile of clothes as evidence of drowning, suicide etc. Mistake because, despite Marilyn Monroe, it is rare to come across a suicide who strips naked before killing themselves. Especially outdoors.

I refuse to entertain the idea this was some drug induced psychosis either. There's been no indication of drug problems, even from Jennifer's husband.

It's murder, imo. And, paraphrasing Mark Klass, you start at the inner circle and work out.

Work out if necessary, that is.

 

[Foxfire]

There's more circumstantial evidence in the Jennifer Ramsaran death investigation than any case in recent memory, imo. Coupled with motive, means, and opportunity should make a slam dunk case for the prosecutor, imo.. The only thing missing is a smoking gun..


Not enough circumstantial evidence for a grand jury indictment?
Molarkey, imo...

 

[cluciano63]

I dunno, naked? Down an embankment?

Murderers - and fake suiciders - often make the fundamental mistake of leaving a pile of clothes as evidence of drowning, suicide etc. Mistake because, despite Marilyn Monroe, it is rare to come across a suicide who strips naked before killing themselves. Especially outdoors.

I refuse to entertain the idea this was some drug induced psychosis either. There's been no indication of drug problems, even from Jennifer's husband.

It's murder, imo. And, paraphrasing Mark Klass, you start at the inner circle and work out.

Work out if necessary, that is.

People in hyperthermia (?) tend to undress. Do we know if her clothes were found nearby?

Believe me, I am not taking a stand that she was not murdered. Just fear it may be hard to prove, if in fact they do not know how she died.

 

[Montjoy]

People in hyperthermia (?) tend to undress. Do we know if her clothes were found nearby?

Believe me, I am not taking a stand that she was not murdered. Just fear it may be hard to prove, if in fact they do not know how she died.

Yes, this is what I think. I would also guess that her husband is the most likely POI. But what circumstantial evidence is there of his having murdered her? Even his strange behavior after her disappearance does not count as circumstantial evidence, though it speaks of his character and disposition.

This case reminds me a bit of the Gail Palmgren case. Most here were ready to string her husband up (and perhaps still are) for months and months. He was having an affair, but he was cleared of any responsibility in her death (which was either suicide or an accident).

 

[zwiebel]

I can't see how you would get hypothermia in a warm car.

 

[Piperdog]

I can't see how you would get hypothermia in a warm car.

Or a hot shower

 

[zwiebel]

It wasn't even that cold that day, locals say. No snow.

 

[krey]

As a life long resident of chenango county, i have never been impressed by local law enforcement... or the media.
i don't think they gave the case any sincerity at the start...like.i cant see that there was an all points bulletin put out for her van. her poor father found it!!4 days later, why not the local police? they turn around in that parking lot several times a day, and have tag readers installed on the trunks. plus they set at the field across the street angled at were the van was for 4 days.
her body lie a few ft of the road about 6 miles from were her phone was found. look on goggle earth a helicopter would have seen her if they sent one up!!!
they called of a search? what was time sensitive after 6-7 weeks? they did not want evidence disturb? so they either wanted it left there, or not found? (they did not conduct a deputy only search) if something was found. searchers are told not to touch it anyway.
the local paper there reporting on it,is slack at best! more of a (oh and by the way approach). nothing that can been seen as investigative journalism.
did they not speak to her mom and dad? we would have been informed at the start I.E, Sunday school teacher, girl scout leader is missing. phone found.van abandoned. foul play suspected. along with LE stating (we can not speculate on foul play or not)!!!
it is my opinion as a life long resident, who has had to call the sheriff on several occasion do to theft and burglary. we are not seeing a hush hush approach. it is there actual skill level.:banghead:

Just want to say :goodpost:

 

[Montjoy]

There's more circumstantial evidence in the Jennifer Ramsaran death investigation than any case in recent memory, imo.

If that were true, then there would have been an indictment/arrest. Most prosecutions are based only on circumstantial evidence.

 

[Bettylou4you]

Haha. Got kicked off the LnM fb page in one post!

Hypothermia? She could have always jogged over to the Y. Woulda beat GR there most likely.

 

[krey]

They have the skills, but you know as well as I do, there is a good ole boy thing going on here in the area....they are working the case...I was at a friend's house yesterday, and they had been questioned...and I did not yet connect them to GR....They didn't talk to me about the details, but LE was just following up a lead...sadly...this case will transcend all levels of education, friendships, lifestyles, and will challenge many....:twocents:

I agree that the case was presented in a light, that would have made me think she just ran off....except for one thing...those amazing children....and the love they all had for each other. I personally do not care if Jennifer had admirers, played games, or bought lingerie...I don't care what color her hair was...or how much she weighed....I don't care if she didn't wait in her husband hand and foot, or sang off tune in the choir in Yonkers..:what:

I care that a beautiful, vibrant, young mother is dead..and no one seems to want to do anything to help, except Joe from the DS. MSM has all but put it so far back that in the news already, it is considered a done deal....but...never underestimate people, like WSer's, who truly care, and will leave no stone ( in this case, the rock) unturned. Someone knows who did this. There will be evidence that tells a story....but like so many cases, if we just sit and ignore it, then soon.....beautiful Jenn, will be just another statistic.

Am angry:furious: at the antics of those who say they care, when in truth it is just to get attention...while their motives may have been pure in the beginning, there is getting to be a much larger gray area. We are fortunate enough to have the internet, social media, and numerous ways to assist...but like any tool, these resources are only helpful, if we use them correctly.

This is crime...and LE needs to at the very least speak to the public...even if it is just a reassuring message. Their silence is starting to make people wonder about their competence....and that is not beneficial to anyone associated with LE, in any capacity.:blushing:

We need to also keep Jennifer's name alive...speak to people...share your thoughts...use the videos and posts, to help explore what you can do. I have gone door to door in places, and most people had no idea other than the one phrase that keeps popping up..."When I read it in the newspaper, I thought she just left him, but when I saw the interview, I knew he was lying"...whether you agree or disagree...now is the time to keep asking...you never know who saw something that day...and still has no idea that they hold the one last piece of the puzzle...:banghead:

Thanks for letting me vent. Okay..Bear vent over:rocker:

Also a very :goodpost:

 

[cluciano63]

I am not claiming she had hypothermia...just trying to offer alternatives, a la a defense theory, as to why she was naked, etc. if no manner of death, not to mention cause, can be medically determined. It is not my opinion, just a idea.