Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 8

[epiphany]

People in hyperthermia (?) tend to undress. Do we know if her clothes were found nearby?

Believe me, I am not taking a stand that she was not murdered. Just fear it may be hard to prove, if in fact they do not know how she died.

MSM has reported that no clothing or other belongings were found in the area where her body was discovered.

 

[Janeumayer]

i think they ( LE/media ) did a horrible job until she was found.
it did indicted foul play, from the start.
i wonder why it wasn't put out , (she is a Sunday school teacher/cub scout leader)?
why wasn't the car found earlier?
why was the search called off?
why did they not check adjacent rds to the phone location?
why such slack informing of the community?
why no investigative reporting?
why not a rd block fowling her phone and car being found. asking daily commuters and local residents if they possible seen anything.
why not confirm if she made it to destiny?(she could not have possible been there and not caught on any camera)
why not state that no useable evidence had been recovered from her phone or computers?
why haven't we been informed of anything?
my wife and daughter in-law, drive that route twice a day. were all kinda hanging on for anything.
i don't doubt there there taking it serious now. but i also think time,memories and information has been lost that may not be recovered. and if it had been handled differently from the start,things may at this point be different.
i am very curious what a poll, of local residents would rate regarding the handling of this case.
and i agree there is a good old boy thing in this area (depending on the severity of what ever the issue is ), and that is what may have created a slack start to this hole thing. but now at this point a good old boy thing has nothing to do with it.
and i still think it speaks volumes about there skill level/interest at the start of her disappearance.

I have a suggestion for you. You are great at getting all these important points across in writing.

Why not contact the patch.com online newspaper for your area and have one of their editors write an online article based on all your observations?

I am sure they would publish it and help put some heat on LE and bring this case into the masses.

All my opinion of course.

 

[Janeumayer]

Yes, but there is another name listed too -- the 'E' one too -- could have a few middle names, no?

Didn't Interested01 bring up to stop sleuthing GR and not post his college nickname? I think he/she was referring to Efrerfe.

 

[Janeumayer]

I was thinking that at this stage, it might be helpful now to have appeals for tips on Jennifer's fb page. With a very large picture of her car, and full length photos, not necessarily of Jennifer. Along with any routes she may have taken, or been taken. With reminders of anything remarkable that was happening that day (traffic probs/ holiday/ something on the news) to help jog people's memories. Jog being the operative word.

It's just that....if you want people to come forward with tips, they have to know what they're looking for. There are ways of saying things without saying them, if you get my drift.

Maybe you should contact Jillian? She could put that up on the Facebook Page.

 

[Janeumayer]

that is a very good question? i have not been told of anything by any locals regarding a police presence that said (troopers) just (sheriffs)

I remember seeing FBI jackets on some pics of the search of their house. Maybe by looking at those pics again you can see if other LE were there. :twocents:

 

[LolaAngelina]

Didn't Interested01 bring up to stop sleuthing GR and not post his college nickname? I think he/she was referring to Efrerfe.

She was referring to his nickname "Psycho"

 

[Sharoneonta]

I remember seeing FBI jackets on some pics of the search of their house. Maybe by looking at those pics again you can see if other LE were there. :twocents:

Where are these pics? I'd be interested in seeing them too.

 

[Abigail]

What still drives me crazy is the lack of explanation of how he goes from
- "I've given up all hope of finding her" after a few days
- "Some days I have hope, some days I don't." after 7 weeks
- "There's not a doubt in my mind that we'll see her again" just 2 weeks after that?

I think it may have gone like this...body is left just off the side of the road, he "finds" the phone nearby -- giving a clue of where to search for the body, and the van is parked where it could be easily observed by local LE.

The intention in the beginning seemed to have been a quick discovery of her body, with the blame pointing to a serial rapist/murderer who befriended Jenn on her online gaming site.

However, that didn't go QUITE as planned. No one happened to notice her body on the side of the road, just a couple miles from where her phone was found. Then a week later it was covered with snow. The police parked in the empty lot across from the apartments didn't notice the van. :waitasec: Fortunately, Jenn's Dad went looking.

As the days turned into weeks, and then the weeks into months, and Jenn's body still hadn't been located, the story changed from "she must be dead" to "she's out there somewhere, probably ran off with someone...there's been sightings..." -- this would accomodate him beginning to "get on" with life, even be seen with E.

 

[LolaAngelina]

They have the skills, but you know as well as I do, there is a good ole boy thing going on here in the area....they are working the case...I was at a friend's house yesterday, and they had been questioned...and I did not yet connect them to GR....They didn't talk to me about the details, but LE was just following up a lead...sadly...this case will transcend all levels of education, friendships, lifestyles, and will challenge many....:twocents:

I agree that the case was presented in a light, that would have made me think she just ran off....except for one thing...those amazing children....and the love they all had for each other. I personally do not care if Jennifer had admirers, played games, or bought lingerie...I don't care what color her hair was...or how much she weighed....I don't care if she didn't wait in her husband hand and foot, or sang off tune in the choir in Yonkers..:what:

I care that a beautiful, vibrant, young mother is dead..and no one seems to want to do anything to help, except Joe from the DS. MSM has all but put it so far back that in the news already, it is considered a done deal....but...never underestimate people, like WSer's, who truly care, and will leave no stone ( in this case, the rock) unturned. Someone knows who did this. There will be evidence that tells a story....but like so many cases, if we just sit and ignore it, then soon.....beautiful Jenn, will be just another statistic.

Am angry:furious: at the antics of those who say they care, when in truth it is just to get attention...while their motives may have been pure in the beginning, there is getting to be a much larger gray area. We are fortunate enough to have the internet, social media, and numerous ways to assist...but like any tool, these resources are only helpful, if we use them correctly.

This is crime...and LE needs to at the very least speak to the public...even if it is just a reassuring message. Their silence is starting to make people wonder about their competence....and that is not beneficial to anyone associated with LE, in any capacity.:blushing:

We need to also keep Jennifer's name alive...speak to people...share your thoughts...use the videos and posts, to help explore what you can do. I have gone door to door in places, and most people had no idea other than the one phrase that keeps popping up..."When I read it in the newspaper, I thought she just left him, but when I saw the interview, I knew he was lying"...whether you agree or disagree...now is the time to keep asking...you never know who saw something that day...and still has no idea that they hold the one last piece of the puzzle...:banghead:

Thanks for letting me vent. Okay..Bear vent over:rocker:

:goodpost::bow:

 

[Abigail]

I don't think he went on SR23 that morning.. I think he took Lake Road out to King Settlement Road, into the Whaupaunauca State Lands (where he ditched the clothes) out to Ripple Road, down into North Norwich, over into Plymouth via Bates Wilson Road or Country Club Road, to SR23 out there, out to Center Road, and back via the State Lands down Moon Hill, ditched the phone and then back on SR23 into Norwich, ditched the van.. and ran to the Y!

No cameras that way!!! It was planned!

I am almost 90% in agreement. This doesn't appear at all to be a panicked action of body disposal after a crime of passion. It all seems very calculated, very planned.

 

[Abigail]

The longer LE goes without speaking, the more I fear they have no cause/manner of death and are counting on tox to point the way.

I suppose they're sending toxicology stuff to Syracuse for processing, but it does seem to be taking a long time.

For instance, in the news report and interview done with GR in late February, just before the body was found, the reporter mentioned that LE was waiting on toxocology reports. Well, that would have probably been on something in the van or in the house or the phone or whatever -- but those samples would have been collected in mid-December -- so this was more than 2 months later and they were apparently still waiting on tox reports on THAT stuff!!

So...now we have a dead body...is it going to take another 2 or 3 months before the more recent tox screenings are processed? It's no wonder trails run cold and missing people remain missing and murderers roam our home towns free.

 

[Abigail]

i also think it planed that hunting season ended only one day prior to her missing. lots of people on back rds during big game season, and in the woods looking for anything that moves.

OH! I didn't realize hunting season was over the day prior -- I thought it continued for another week after Jenn went missing.

If you are correct, this is extremely compelling!!

 

[CuriousGuy]

She was referring to his nickname "Psycho"

Love the new avatar Lola :seeya:

 

[Foxfire]

Yes, this is what I think. I would also guess that her husband is the most likely POI. But what circumstantial evidence is there of his having murdered her? Even his strange behavior after her disappearance does not count as circumstantial evidence, though it speaks of his character and disposition.

This case reminds me a bit of the Gail Palmgren case. Most here were ready to string her husband up (and perhaps still are) for months and months. He was having an affair, but he was cleared of any responsibility in her death (which was either suicide or an accident).

Gail Palmgren's vehicle wasn't located until her remains were located. Her jeep also had no blood stains in it and located miles away..

Apples and oranges, Montjoy...

 

[Abigail]

OK, I looked it up and CJWoods is spot on!!

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/28605.html

Deer and bear hunting season ended on December 9 (and turkey season closed end of Nov.)! Bow hunting did continue for another week, but it's my experience (please correct me if I'm wrong hunters!) that bow hunters prefer the beginning of the season when the deer aren't so spooked -- so not many would have been in the woods that week.

 

[cluciano63]

Yes, tox takes a very long time, two months seems to be the average. I do not know why. Maybe some tests take that long to process?? Or is every lab in the country on a two-month backlog? Wouldn't possible murder victims, which must be relatively few, take precedence over drug screens, etc.?

 

[nanasbabes]

OH! I didn't realize hunting season was over the day prior -- I thought it continued for another week after Jenn went missing.

If you are correct, this is extremely compelling!!

Abigail the regular hunting gun season for deer was closed but they had another week of muzzleloader and bow season they call late season open. Not many people hunt then but some do!

 

[Abigail]

I believe that there will be enough evidence to indict: I was on the Chenango County Grand Jury and from my experience this case will be easy , like has been said here. Lots of circumstantial evidence. Waiting for all the results and follow up is good police work. If it makes the guilty party sweat, all the better. Sometimes you get a better deal when you confess and save the state hundreds of thousands of dollars in investigative fees and trial costs. Also, the guilty party can save tons of money for their canteen card when they go to jail ( to buy food, make phone calls, shampoo and soap). A win-win if there can be one in a case where a women is killed.
A real man would not have killed a women, and A real man would save his parents and children from having to testify....food for thought.

:moo:

A real man would have followed his father's directive to treat the woman in his life in the same way he would want another man to treat his sister or daughter.

 

[SouthAussie]

Culturally, he may never have got that directive

 

[Abigail]

Yes, what evidence is there of anything other than what would appear to be a bad and unfaithful husband? (This isn't a rhetorical question, I don't know.) I don't know enough about the blood found in the van, but if her body didn't have visible trauma to suggest homicide, then what can be read into the blood? That her husband seems like a cad and there is no other likely perp does not in itself constitute circumstantial evidence.

But there is other circumstantial evidence:
1) Perp had knowledge of area
2) Suspect showed up at Y on day of disappearance (just 1 mile from where van was left) at an unusual time of day
3) Suspect's mistress just "happened" to be at the Y at that unusual time of time to give him a ride home.
4) She just happened to go missing 2 days after the end of hunting season (only a local would have known this) -- when disposing of a body on the side of a rural body would have been less likely to be noticed
5) Suspect's finances were in disarray -- judgement on credit cards, etc. Stood to gain financially from Jenn's death.
6) Suspect and suspect's cohorts put out misleading information -- fooled most people into thinking she had simply run off
7) Suspect deleted Facebook postings and messages from her online gaming site that could have been used by police