Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 8

[thefox]

OK, I looked it up and CJWoods is spot on!!

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/28605.html

Deer and bear hunting season ended on December 9 (and turkey season closed end of Nov.)! Bow hunting did continue for another week, but it's my experience (please correct me if I'm wrong hunters!) that bow hunters prefer the beginning of the season when the deer aren't so spooked -- so not many would have been in the woods that week.

It was also late muzzleloader for another week. The out of towers are done hunting but the locals continue to hunt to the end and beyond. As far as pressure by hunters that's pretty much over after the first week and by then the deer resume a somewhat normal pattern.

 

[sleepinoz]

Amberdawn723 - could I please ask you to update the map with where Jennifer was found - thanks

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204150161293193815171.0004d31a03b9db5e0067f&msa=0

 

[cjwoods]

OH! I didn't realize hunting season was over the day prior -- I thought it continued for another week after Jenn went missing.

If you are correct, this is extremely compelling!!

sunday the 9th was the last day! any day prior there would be sevral people on the back rds, state land. I think he went all back rds to center rd. NO cameras anywere . I drove a possible rt yesterday. Just before plank rd appartments there is norwich gardens (all the green houses by the bridge) they have a broken camera.im still thinking over othere routes via back rds.... also living in the country i cant see how he was not aware of hunting season dates
also the corner of 23 and east river rd, has 6 cameras. LE has not said they seen him on his jog.
imo....absensce of evidence is not (evidense) unless it shows gr,s absense.....the city police have vidoe feed of rt 12...........have they looked to see if he came jogging to the y from the oppisite direction ?

 

[robinsj2]

But there is other circumstantial evidence:
1) Perp had knowledge of area
2) Suspect showed up at Y on day of disappearance (just 1 mile from where van was left) at an unusual time of day
3) Suspect's mistress just "happened" to be at the Y at that unusual time of time to give him a ride home.
4) She just happened to go missing 2 days after the end of hunting season (only a local would have known this) -- when disposing of a body on the side of a rural body would have been less likely to be noticed
5) Suspect's finances were in disarray -- judgement on credit cards, etc. Stood to gain financially from Jenn's death.
6) Suspect and suspect's cohorts put out misleading information -- fooled most people into thinking she had simply run off
7) Suspect deleted Facebook postings and messages from her online gaming site that could have been used by police

GR called ES from the ymca and asked her to come give him a ride home.

 

[alioop]

Her body was found after 11 or 12 days. They could not rule out suffocation/strangulation and her blood had very high levels of Zoloft. She also had a chipped tooth which made people believe she was forced to take the overdose of medication.

Re Allison baden Clay, her liver tissue/blood had very high levels of her anti depressant medication but it is the job of the liver to concentrate toxins so high levels in the liver mean nothing apparently and have no relevance to the actual amount of the medication taken. For her to have suicided she would have had to have walked 14 kms from her home where her husband claims he last saw her watching "the Footy show" at 10pm when he went to bed. He said she was gone when he got up around 6 am but both their cars were at home. She was found on a muddy bank underneath a bridge 11 days later badly decomposed.

So she must have walked 14 km, jumped off the bridge or gone down the steep embankment and laid down in the mud until she died of an overdose! She was not known for enjoying exercise.

 

[yupikgirl]

I missed sooo much on Facebook the last 12-15 hours! Anyway I was wondering do we know if the van was returned or if it was just searched/tested when it was found and returned relatively quickly?

 

[dansmom]

Um...and what would she be doing on Center Road suffering from hyperthermia when she was supposed to be on her way to the mall?? Parked her van at the apartments and decided to walk to Syracuse???

:waitasec:

Pick one: Hyper or hypo- thermia. Of course in the cold, walking naked for miles , under the influence of an overdose of drugs a women commits suicide by laying down in a ditch waiting for death to come?? Wow, death came , long before she left her house. Is there evidence, I bet there is. Do we know? Of course not, that would be unprofessional of the PoPo.

In the time that has passed, there has been evidence gathered ( there has to be tons) given what people here have already put together without being LE, it is just a matter of putting it all together.
I feel that there is a leaning towards moving on here just because the public isn't being made aware of all the facts.
That can't happen. Please keep looking.....Jennifer was killed, we all "know" this (even if we can't prove it right now).

:moo:

 

[cjwoods]

GR called ES from the ymca and asked her to come give him a ride home.

?? if gr called es from the ymca for a ride home. why did he not catch a ride with his wife, who should have been in route from destiny. to there home at sheff rd?
if he called the inlaws at 530 worried she was not ansering her phone yet? what time did he get home from the Y?
i drive from syracuse to norwich everyday, as does my wife. sevrale dead zones from new wood stock, to south plymouth regardless of carrier. if we cant reach each other by phone, thats how we know about were the other is.
so i cant understand ,why he would not wait untill she came threw norwich on her way back. it should have been around the time she was on her way back.
(by his calculations) yes?
unless he somehow had insight that she was not coming threw:waitasec:

 

[JTKirk]

GR called ES from the ymca and asked her to come give him a ride home.

So to put it all together, based on what we know, here is my own hypothetical account of that morning:

-JR is killed either in the house or in the van.
-GR drives van to Pharsalia, dumps JR's body
-on the way back into town, throws the phone out the DRIVER's side window, across the road (where it does NOT hit a rock)
-Leaves van at the apartments
-EASY 1.1 mile run to the Y. Would only take about 10-15 mins (given his documented race results)
-is very cold due to not dressing for his unexpected run
-hangs out in the sauna with his trooper buddy
-Calls ES to have her drive him home

From JR being killed to GR getting to the Y, I estimate it would take at most an hour. Google Maps says from their house to Center Rd, to Apartments, to Y is about 45 minutes.

If GR returned to home from dropping off kids @ school, he'd be back by 8:30am at the latest? What time did he arrive at the Y?

This brings me to another question that just popped into my head: WHY did GR say he "wished he had gotten dressed so he would have went with her to Syracuse".....if he ALREADY had to be dressed in order to take the kids to school that day? I know I get dressed to take my kids to school.

Do I have that correct that he drove kids to school that day?

Also, in looking at google maps.....for where the body was way out in Pharsalia, and where the phone was left by Moon Hill Rd, I kept trying to find the apartments way out there too, and I couldnt find them. I kept scrolling down and finally found the apartments near town. This makes total sense. He knew he had to ditch the van, and probably wanted to ditch it far from town, but if he was too far out, that would be a tough run (since he wasn't dressed properly for a run). I can see why he would have brought the van back in closer to town so he could easily get to the Y.

Again, these are all my own opinion of the events, but it's very tough to see more reasonal possibilities, especially the getting dressed part. He had TONS of time to pull this off. Still waiting to hear the 'air-tight alibi' after 3 months.

 

[SouthAussie]

GR called ES from the ymca and asked her to come give him a ride home.

And that being the case, I don't see that there is any way in heck that ES didn't know something was up.

If she didn't figure out his nervousness then, she sure would have figured it out in the days to come when Jen never returned.


(Runners also run out and run back, they don't run in one direction and call for a ride home.)

 

[JTKirk]

(Runners also run out and run back, they don't run in one direction and call for a ride home.)

RSBM
Yes! Exactly! GREAT point! :rocker:

 

[cjwoods]

he went to the ymca. were he relaxed in the suana next to a freind who happend to be a police officer.
if she was killed by him via a unmedatated murder, this would possible leave scratches from a struggle. however if it was well thought out from start to finish,there would be no scratches,red marks. and to have a officer setting next to you to verify (no visable marks) thats freakn gold. if claiming innocent, but also gold for a prosecuter showing premedatated murder

 

[BearAngel]

And that being the case, I don't see that there is any way in heck that ES didn't know something was up.

If she didn't figure out his nervousness then, she sure would have figured it out in the days to come when Jen never returned.


(Runners also run out and run back, they don't run in one direction and call for a ride home.)

Right!:rocker: I think he must have wanted that alibi very badly that day....:waitasec:

 

[Bob's Chicken]

So to put it all together, based on what we know, here is my own hypothetical account of that morning:

This brings me to another question that just popped into my head: WHY did GR say he "wished he had gotten dressed so he would have went with her to Syracuse".....if he ALREADY had to be dressed in order to take the kids to school that day? I know I get dressed to take my kids to school.

Do I have that correct that he drove kids to school that day?

respectfully snipped/BBM...

JTKirk -- my idea on this is that he could have driven the kids to school but not been 'dressed' because maybe he did not shower yet and had on an old tee and sweats/lounge pants. Probably does not have to get out of van when dropping them off -- so can throw on anything. If he had wanted to go to the mall -- he would shower and have on nicer clothes...

 

[cjwoods]

And that being the case, I don't see that there is any way in heck that ES didn't know something was up.

If she didn't figure out his nervousness then, she sure would have figured it out in the days to come when Jen never returned.


(Runners also run out and run back, they don't run in one direction and call for a ride home.)

so if he had intended to run only one way to the y, went in the suana, showerd.... did he bring fresh cloths. did he have spare clothing at the y? did he carry them with him on his run. or did he get back into his sweaty stinky clohting?
none of these senerios make sense. unless he did not run,and had pre changed..
think about this.a 5 k race or run converts to 3.10 miles .he has ran alot of 5k races. so that day for no reason what so ever he claims he ran almost 3x that amount.
so i think running back home is not even a possability off thought for him.and he would have brought clothing or had clothing there?
so my qeustion is? did he leave in the same clothing he came in with? and if so, as a seasoned runner would have been prepaired, (clothing wise) i can only deduce he infact did not run at all!

 

[Abigail]

I won't post a link as it has no connection to this case, but there is someone from Sri Lanka using the name Efrerfe. I'm wondering if it is an actual name or has some other meaning?

I might be wrong, but I kind of think it has something to do with a web link (along the lines of http or something like that) used in some Asian countries.

I can't find it anywhere on a list of Indian names.

 

[PAHouseWifey]

GR called ES from the ymca and asked her to come give him a ride home.

I wonder if he used his cellphone or if he asked to use the Y's phone? If he asked to use their phone, he might have been trying to show distance between the 2 of them that day.

 

[deoneta]

Here's the "official" version of the alibi from his PR representative (posted here on WS):

I've already ruled out GR.
First...he couldnt run from APT to Y in that time-frame and go unnoticed by cameras coming in from wrong direction.
His cell phone is an automatic GPS tracker as it pings continually off towers so PD has the forensics to where he was in approx vicinities.
His home office work and conference calls are via a VPN which is tracked and logged with his company.
His entire alibi is accounted for. Even strangers who saw him running...to people at Y...to people who saw after.

 

[Abigail]

GR called ES from the ymca and asked her to come give him a ride home.

Thanks -- I wasn't aware that he had called her.

Interesting that he showed up at the Y without a vehicle, and with no way to get back home.

 

[Abigail]

And that being the case, I don't see that there is any way in heck that ES didn't know something was up.

If she didn't figure out his nervousness then, she sure would have figured it out in the days to come when Jen never returned.


(Runners also run out and run back, they don't run in one direction and call for a ride home.)

They might if the route TO the Y was only 1 mile, but the route FROM the Y to home was 8 miles.

:waitasec: How did he call her? Did he use a phone at the Y, or did he use his own phone? (and who takes their phone with them when running 8 or 9 miles?)