Yes. She did not need to leave her home, and have met another to have had what began as a possible consensual intimate encounter.
Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 9
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Yes. She did not need to leave her home, and have met another to have had what began as a possible consensual intimate encounter.
LivingJuicy
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I believe that her being dumped there naked (because I'm still wondering if she was there the whole time) was a part of staging her being killed by a stranger.
I also think it was in the perps. benefit to keep minimum evidence at bay and I also think that it was the ultimate disgrace to leave her body naked.
Staging not removed from my hypothetical. Will the autopsy be able to indicate a sexual assault took place, if it did?
Tennlyn
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:welcome5:
I would find it much easier to believe that someone else was responsible if GR had actually made an attempt to find her. I never got the impression that he wanted her found.
The circumstances around the finding of the phone certainly suggest to me that he planted it there that morning.
Lastly, I think if LE suspects GR, they would be behaving exactly the way they are: keeping things very close to the vest and quiet. I'm sure they would be very careful for the sake of Jennifer's children.
Sharoneonta
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I just read a bunch of stuff and I think, because she was found unclothed, a rape kit would have been standard. It seems though it would have had to have been ordered in addition to the autopsy.
(Info from forensic sites and reading an old WS thread from 2005, Janet Christiansen)
Yet another sketchy Google search on my phone. ;-)
lovinglife
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Okay...thinking way out of the box here - trying to find other scenarios.
IMO, the blood in the van is key-I wish we knew more about it.
1. If it was fresh and was JR's blood, then we can probably assume she died between Dec 11 and Dec 14/15/16 (van found on the 16th but some people at apt said it was there a day or two). Adding to that...the coroner said no visable signs of trauma so it could be purge fluid and COD could be suffocation, strangulation, poisoned, massive internal injuries from a possible fall, etc.
2. If it is an old stain, nothing to do with JR then we can safely assume she died between Dec 11 (day went missing) and Feb 26 (day she was found)
3. If it was a fresh stain and it wasn't JR's or any family members, it could be the perp's blood - it's possible that JR was able to injure the perp, maybe with keys, a pocket knife, broken mirror, nail file, or other things in her van or her purse.
Building on #3: is it possible that JR did leave to meet someone; they went to someplace private in the van to talk and became intimate; at some point JR says she can't go through with it, feels guilt, tells the perp to stop and he doesn't; he gets aggressive; JR finds something to use as a weapon and injures him; he gets violent and hits her or throws her out of the van; she's knocked out or hits head on a rock (that rock shows up everywhere); perp kills her with one of the methods above that won't show trauma;
Then he dumps the body, tosses the phone, gets rid of her belongings somewhere, parks the van and walks off.
Thoughts??
RIP Jennifer - bothers me just thinking about these different scenarios, thinking what she may have gone through before she died.
IMO, the blood in the van is key-I wish we knew more about it.
1. If it was fresh and was JR's blood, then we can probably assume she died between Dec 11 and Dec 14/15/16 (van found on the 16th but some people at apt said it was there a day or two). Adding to that...the coroner said no visable signs of trauma so it could be purge fluid and COD could be suffocation, strangulation, poisoned, massive internal injuries from a possible fall, etc.
2. If it is an old stain, nothing to do with JR then we can safely assume she died between Dec 11 (day went missing) and Feb 26 (day she was found)
3. If it was a fresh stain and it wasn't JR's or any family members, it could be the perp's blood - it's possible that JR was able to injure the perp, maybe with keys, a pocket knife, broken mirror, nail file, or other things in her van or her purse.
Building on #3: is it possible that JR did leave to meet someone; they went to someplace private in the van to talk and became intimate; at some point JR says she can't go through with it, feels guilt, tells the perp to stop and he doesn't; he gets aggressive; JR finds something to use as a weapon and injures him; he gets violent and hits her or throws her out of the van; she's knocked out or hits head on a rock (that rock shows up everywhere); perp kills her with one of the methods above that won't show trauma;
Then he dumps the body, tosses the phone, gets rid of her belongings somewhere, parks the van and walks off.
Thoughts??
RIP Jennifer - bothers me just thinking about these different scenarios, thinking what she may have gone through before she died.
Abigail
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Magiefeu, I've also considered that scenario, or something similar, but here's the thing. We don't have a single shred of evidence that points to her being involved with someone. We have evidence that her husband was involved with someone, but no evidence that Jenn was.
Her online gaming friends have come forward to LE with word that she wasn't especially especially close to anyone there -- she exchanged frequent postings with those in her guild, but they were of a general nature, and full of references to things like her kids and running them to school and such.
And the interesting thing is that "someone" deleted a lot of the postings she'd made on there. I think we have figured out that the only person who could delete her own postings on her game site would be someone who has access to her password, etc., which pretty much is only one person. So, this leads us to surmise that the postings were deleted, not because they pointed to a suspect, but because they did NOT point to a suspect, and thus did not fit in with a rumor that was being spread by a "family friend" "on condition of anonymity" (and we have our guesses as to who that person was) that she had met someone through her online gaming and perhaps that person led her astray. And another interesting thing is that only one person, who chose to remain anonymous (quite suspicious that) even hinted that she was involved with someone else -- none of her other family or friends who KNEW her has back this up.
As far as being involved with someone in the community -- that's even more unlikely. For one thing, Jenn was a stay-at-home Mom for the last 6 months of her life, with a husband who worked from home. So, she was with her husband most of the day. Her activities outside the home were things like running her kids to basketball and swim practice, teaching knitting classes, teaching Sunday School, leading the local Girl Scout Troop, and joining with her husband and kids in running events. These are not the type of activities that lead to meeting a paramour, especially when she usually had her kids in tow. Not to mention that she lived in a very small town, and small towns have a way of noticing things like affairs (which is probably why her husband had to come clean about his own adultery).
Abigail
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:cheers: very good points
I never could figure out how one could be "depressed" but at the same time losing weight (intentionally), and taking more care with appearance (like wearing nail polish and dressing up).
As I mentioned above, (and as a local poster also pointed out) everybody in Chenango County pretty much knows everyone else's cousin, or co-worker, etc., so it would be very hard to maintain a clandestine romance. So, the idea that she suddenly started dressing up more and losing weight is unlikely that she was involved in someone and more likely that she was trying to win her husband back and save her marriage.
Abigail
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Another problem with this scenario is logistics -- time wise.
What her husband Ganesh has reported is that she left the house around 10:30 AM to head to Destiny USA mall, and that he expected her to return around 5 PM. Considering that it is a 3 hour round trip to Syracuse, that only allowed her 3 1/2 hours to eat lunch and get her shopping done (which included buying the dress for her daughter's Christmas program and a "special gift" for Ganesh). She would be expected to return home with these two items.
All along, it has seemed quite odd to me that she would only allow herself such a small window of time to purchase those two items, in addition to any other Christmas shopping that she needed to do. After all, it takes a long time to get there and back, and local options for Christmas shopping are few. All along, I was wondering, well, why didn't she leave at 8:30 so she could get there when the mall opened??
So...then...if she were to add in time for a "tryst" with some unknown person...well, that would be quite difficult to fit in. It would be almost impossible to spend an hour or so with someone, and then still make it to the mall and buy the items she went there to buy and get back by 5 PM.
Furthermore, since it was allegedly her plan to go to Destiny USA, then it stands to reason that if she were going to have a romantic encounter with someone, that to keep any locals from noticing she would have more likely arranged for the person to meet her in Syracuse -- NOT in Chenango County -- and that any accidental death would have occurred there, and that's where her body would have been left -- not just a few miles from her home.
LolaAngelina
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Tennlyn
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BBM
Excellent point that I hadn't processed before! :doh:
And I agree about the timeframe. No time for a "tryst" and if she was really going to get the dress and gift, she would have left early enough to be there when the mall opened. It's another story from GR that never rang true to me.
ETA: All MOO!
I thought I read in one of the threads that GR took the daughter to the school Christmas program even though Jennifer was missing. So if Jennifer was going to get her a dress at Destiny and never showed back home....how did her daughter get the dress to wear? I'm guessing she ended up wearing an old one.
Welcome Magiefeu! I agree the mods have done a great job bringing focus back to the case. We still however are allowed to discuss our theories involving GR or not. Questionable things said and done are important (IMO of course nobody has to agree with me!). One of the great things about websleuths is we can't tell each other how to post or whats productive/counterproductive that's the mods job.
IMO there are overwhelming facts that point in one direction. Trying to make another scenario fit is very hard for me, but I have tried. Many cases are built and won on circumstantial evidence and when the reports come back I believe they will have more than that.
Edited to add..I am in no way offended by alternate theories. I want to know what happened to her as well no matter who did it. Obviously losing both parents would be devastating.
IMO there are overwhelming facts that point in one direction. Trying to make another scenario fit is very hard for me, but I have tried. Many cases are built and won on circumstantial evidence and when the reports come back I believe they will have more than that.
Edited to add..I am in no way offended by alternate theories. I want to know what happened to her as well no matter who did it. Obviously losing both parents would be devastating.
Abigail
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If Jenn had been planning her own "tryst" -- then there would have been an electronic trail -- she would have been communicating with that person via phone calls or phone messages or through her online gaming messages or through email or private FB message.
And there is NO evidence that anything of that sort was going on.
Her phone was found and turned over to LE the day after she went missing, so it's any phone calls or messages could have been quickly checked. Even if they were erased off of her phone, LE requested her phone records, and have checked those.
Her computer was in her husband's possession for about 1 week after Jenn went missing. He has not reported finding any messages of such a nature, and I have no doubt that he would have if they were there. What we do know is that someone did delete some of her FB and online game postings, but that would have had to be someone with access to her computer and/or someone with knowledge of her passwords and other access info.
Therefore, we have NOTHING pointing to any kind of tryst on Jenn's part, other than vague statements from her husband and an anonymous family friend.
There is not a single shred of electronic evidence to support that Jenn was having a tryst.
Nor is there anything, from what we know of her character, that would suggest that she would stoop to sordid couplings in the back of a car somewhere.
And there is NO evidence that anything of that sort was going on.
Her phone was found and turned over to LE the day after she went missing, so it's any phone calls or messages could have been quickly checked. Even if they were erased off of her phone, LE requested her phone records, and have checked those.
Her computer was in her husband's possession for about 1 week after Jenn went missing. He has not reported finding any messages of such a nature, and I have no doubt that he would have if they were there. What we do know is that someone did delete some of her FB and online game postings, but that would have had to be someone with access to her computer and/or someone with knowledge of her passwords and other access info.
Therefore, we have NOTHING pointing to any kind of tryst on Jenn's part, other than vague statements from her husband and an anonymous family friend.
There is not a single shred of electronic evidence to support that Jenn was having a tryst.
Nor is there anything, from what we know of her character, that would suggest that she would stoop to sordid couplings in the back of a car somewhere.
Sharoneonta
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That nobody knew about. (Yet everybody knew about)
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