Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 9

[horsenaround60]

Does anyone know if she usually went over St Rt 23 to go to the mall? I mean that is the way to Rt 41 west that goes to Cortland where you can get on the entrance to Interstate 81 to go to the mall, but i would think that living in New Berlin, it would be much closer to go on Rt 8 north to Utica and then on to Syracuse. It really depends on the way she usually went there, but it just seems to me that its odd that she would have driven to the other side of Norwich to get on St Rt 23, unless she was going to meet some friend or somebody to go with her and went that way to pick them up on her way there. Thats if she was even going to the mall? We only have his word on that.

 

[sleepinoz]

Does anyone know if she usually went over St Rt 23 to go to the mall? I mean that is the way to Rt 41 west that goes to Cortland where you can get on the entrance to Interstate 81 to go to the mall, but i would think that living in New Berlin, it would be much closer to go on Rt 8 north to Utica and then on to Syracuse. It really depends on the way she usually went there, but it just seems to me that its odd that she would have driven to the other side of Norwich to get on St Rt 23, unless she was going to meet some friend or somebody to go with her and went that way to pick them up on her way there. Thats if she was even going to the mall? We only have his word on that.

BBM - We also don't know for sure that this is the way she travelled - we only know that this is where her phone and car were found.

 

[Montjoy]

I think the question I have about the 'tryst' is what was the reason for calling it a tryst? Does it sound better or something, lol?

Forgive me for the OT nature of this post, particularly considering the context. But (and maybe it's a British television (or Monty Python) thing) when I read tryst I think "Oops, I just had (sexual) intercourse!"

To the best of my understanding, the tryst justification of adultery hasn't been accepted for a very long time, save for (in the old days) encounters between people of dramatically different social classes, or in brief windows of time and place where adultery was in the vogue (e.g., places and times where there were, say, key parties). But I'm neither an etymologist or historian, so someone please put me in my place!

 

[momrids6]

Starting to have a Steubenville feeling to it imo...

....maybe Anonymous has some free time

 

[zwiebel]

Forgive me for the OT nature of this post, particularly considering the context. But (and maybe it's a British television (or Monty Python) thing) when I read tryst I think "Oops, I just had (sexual) intercourse!"

To the best of my understanding, the tryst justification of adultery hasn't been accepted for a very long time, save for (in the old days) encounters between people of dramatically different social classes, or in brief windows of time and place where adultery was in the vogue (e.g., places and times where there were, say, key parties). But I'm neither an etymologist or historian, so someone please put me in my place!

Thank you, thank you. I mentioned upthread I thought this was an archaic word to use and have been searching my study ever since, for a novel or factual book that uses it. Your post reminded me of a set of booklets that came free with the Guardian newspapers.

Here it is, at last. In "Great Speeches of the 20th Century". Indian prime minister. "A tryst with destiny".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2007/may/01/greatspeeches

 

[Abigail]

Bear's night question: Why would one own up to a tryst, if it were one time only...?:what:

Precisely. My guess is that LE had already discovered the affair (hard to cover up in a small town; plus, GR probably had an electronic trail to his mistress) and brought it up while questioning GR. :cow:

But that brings us back to Jenn. GR insinuated that SHE was having an affair...and he insinuated that it was going on for 6 to 8 months. It would have been awfully difficult to hide an affair in New Berlin for 6 months. Amazing that the locals never noticed anything (when they did apparently notice GR's "one time tryst"). And not to have left a trace of an electronic trail :computer: .... really, quite astounding....

 

[Abigail]

BBM - We also don't know for sure that this is the way she travelled - we only know that this is where her phone and car were found.

I thought Ms. Caron's statement here was quite curious
http://www.evesun.com/news/stories/2013-02-27/16922/Womans-body-found-in-Pharsalia/

“He keeps saying he doesn’t understand why Jennifer would have been there [and] that was not the route she would have taken.”

Curious statement to make...especially considering he found her phone nearby...and...that the van was found in Norwich...so OBVIOUSLY she was not on whatever route she was supposed to be on.

Curious that he says he doesn't understand why Jennifer would have been there...attempting to distance himself???

 

[zwiebel]

I meant to add, people brought upin India, or those brought up learning 'Indian' English, would be likely to use archaic words such as tryst that have long fallen into general disuse in Britain or America. It's a distinctive feature of Indian and Pakistani English and a lot's been written about it.

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/plcdev/app/public/system/files/43/original/Indlish.pdf

 

[sleepinoz]

I meant to add, people brought upin India, or those brought up learning 'Indian' English, would be likely to use archaic words such as tryst that have long fallen into general disuse in Britain or America. It's a distinctive feature of Indian and Pakistani English and a lot's been written about it.

http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/plcdev/app/public/system/files/43/original/Indlish.pdf

From what we can find he was brought up in Amsterdam then moved to the US

 

[Piperdog]

Does anyone know if she usually went over St Rt 23 to go to the mall? I mean that is the way to Rt 41 west that goes to Cortland where you can get on the entrance to Interstate 81 to go to the mall, but i would think that living in New Berlin, it would be much closer to go on Rt 8 north to Utica and then on to Syracuse. It really depends on the way she usually went there, but it just seems to me that its odd that she would have driven to the other side of Norwich to get on St Rt 23, unless she was going to meet some friend or somebody to go with her and went that way to pick them up on her way there. Thats if she was even going to the mall? We only have his word on that.

I live in Norwich and I work all over NY state. Many of my accounts are in Syracuse. I've said it before. There are probably a dozen different ways to get from Norwich to Syracuse, yours being one of them, but yours is probably the longest in time and distance. The "route that Jenn would take" is the route I prefer the least, especially this time of year when the weather can turn rather quickly. But, who knows, if it was the alleged route she "always" took to get to Syracuse, so be it.

Regarding GR's admission of his tryst. Maybe LE did present him with electronic evidence, but WHY WOULD HE PUBLICLY ADMITT IT? Come clean to LE, yes, but why the need to admitt it to the media, either directly of through a spokesperson. Thats one of the things I don't understand.

In addition, for him to be puzzeled as to the location of her body, you are right. It is slighlty off route to Syracuse, but certainly in the general area of her "normal" route to Syracuse. The contradictions make my head spin.

 

[Piperdog]

I thought Ms. Caron's statement here was quite curious
http://www.evesun.com/news/stories/2013-02-27/16922/Womans-body-found-in-Pharsalia/

“He keeps saying he doesn’t understand why Jennifer would have been there [and] that was not the route she would have taken.”

Curious statement to make...especially considering he found her phone nearby...and...that the van was found in Norwich...so OBVIOUSLY she was not on whatever route she was supposed to be on.

Curious that he says he doesn't understand why Jennifer would have been there...attempting to distance himself???

Maybe not the "exact" route, but pretty darn close. All the major locations, van, phone, body are within spitting distance to the "route to Syracuse".

 

[Abigail]

We don't know the identity of the "family friend" who "on condition of anonymity" first began spreading the rumor that Jennifer may have developed an "emotional attachment" to somebody (what I believe to be a false rumor, as we've seen no evidence to support it).

http://thedailystar.com/localnews/x1423436202/Officials-seek-leads-on-missing-area-woman/print

But Joe Mahoney knows.

And...of course...he won't reveal his source (unless compelled to by Grand Jury).

But I get the feeling from the article below that he felt like he was played big time.
http://thedailystar.com/localnews/x1503760145/Police-ID-body-as-Ramsaran/print

 

[sleepinoz]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #4

Quote: (snipped)
3. Could he have taken her to a place they lived or visited frequently? In the short frame of time that he had, he could have easily covered many miles...so places to look would be local state forests, lakes,their property (old wells)..places like North Blenheim,(once lived in area) Gilboa,(the reservoir?) Troy...which by the way would have been on route 23...just the opposite direction...or closer to Destiny USA...with a twist...such as Phoenix, NY (Arizona twist)...or on the reservation(note native jewelry on ES and GR in pics)...where LE is seldom if ever welcomed...or as close as Coopers Rock or Bowman lake...GR was into MMA, and many marathons. End Quote

A very early post from BearAngel, that mentions GR is into MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) - knowing that it has been stated there were no obvious signs of Trauma, as per link:

http://www.evesun.com/news/stories/...d-authorities-await-Ramsaran-autopsy-results/

Are people that know MMA taught pressure points? - some are deadly aren't they??

 

[Abigail]

Regarding GR's admission of his tryst. Maybe LE did present him with electronic evidence, but WHY WOULD HE PUBLICLY ADMITT IT? Come clean to LE, yes, but why the need to admitt it to the media, either directly of through a spokesperson. Thats one of the things I don't understand.

Yes, I found it odd as well that Ms. Caron chose to divulge that information to the Daily Star. At first I was thinking that she was afraid that LE would release the information to the press, so she decided to do a sort of pre-emptive spin. Remember that she also released the info about the blood stain in the van at that time.

However, the news of his affair wasn't released to the public until Ms. Caron came on board, more than a month after the police interrogated Ganesh when Jenn first went missing. So...if he came clean with the police immediately about his affair, then LE sat on that information (along with the blood stain in the van) for over a month.

That makes me wonder how much other evidence LE is sitting on -- waiting for the last bits of forensic evidence to come in, and have all their ducks in a row to take to the D.A. for an arrest.

 

[Abigail]

From what we can find he was brought up in Amsterdam then moved to the US

Amsterdam? I was thinking Surinam, for some reason.

At any rate, American English isn't his first language, which might explain some odd wordings here and there. But Ms. Caron is the one who came out with the word "tryst" -- unless she was simply quoting him directly.

Speaking of backgrounds reminds me...a while back there was some discussion about him not wanting to have a background check for the girl scouts -- did anyone pursue that whole background check thing any further?

 

[sleepinoz]

Amsterdam? I was thinking Surinam, for some reason.

At any rate, American English isn't his first language, which might explain some odd wordings here and there. But Ms. Caron is the one who came out with the word "tryst" -- unless she was simply quoting him directly.

Speaking of backgrounds reminds me...a while back there was some discussion about him not wanting to have a background check for the girl scouts -- did anyone pursue that whole background check thing any further?

Considering he graduated High School 20 years ago in USA - and with the further education he has - I think his english is fine

http://www.classmates.com/people/Ganesh-Ramsaran/358821311

 

[zwiebel]

Amsterdam? I was thinking Surinam, for some reason.

At any rate, American English isn't his first language, which might explain some odd wordings here and there. But Ms. Caron is the one who came out with the word "tryst" -- unless she was simply quoting him directly.

Speaking of backgrounds reminds me...a while back there was some discussion about him not wanting to have a background check for the girl scouts -- did anyone pursue that whole background check thing any further?

Maybe born outside Amsterdam? There are big clusters of immigrant communities there. Lovely place, if you're quick at dodging bicycles.

I was just thinking perhaps of the people who first taught him to speak as a child. Someone I know still uses archaic, colonial phrases such as 'mufti' and 'pukka'. Far too young to have ever lived in that era though. It's just a use of language that's been passed down the generations.
Sounds pretty funny in this day and age and always makes me laugh. Tryst has never popped up though, far as I recall.

Maybe Montjoy's got it. Someone's been watching Monty Python. Can't recollect John Cleese saying it, but I can just imagine him doing so.

 

[zwiebel]

This last quote from GR in msm has always bothered me: It's like a text book list of what a person experiences with stress of a missing loved one, it's even alphabetical: Lack of sleep, loss of appetite, stress of not knowing,worrying.....

moo

BBM
Bumping this as I think it may answer another question I've been wondering about too.

BBM
"'....was not in any of the descriptions I presented to GR."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #3

I wasn't sure if this referred to an actual list of descriptions given to GR, - of reasons people might go missing - maybe on paper or via mail.

I am not knocking the idea, by the way. I think it's an excellent one. I can see how loved ones of missing people, with no experience of dealing with the media and struggling to cope, would find this really, really, helpful. With a list of possible reasons for someone to go missing, they could cast their mind back, maybe spot signs they'd missed and pick out any possibles that might apply to their own case.

It could also provide guidance on what should be revealed to the media and what it might be best to leave out, in case it was likely to be unhelpful. As I say, I think the idea of a list is an excellent one, and something I can see a professional organisation always having to hand.

If the loved one of a missing person were to go through such a list however, and cite every reason - over a long period of time - as being applicable to their own case, I would find it odd. Especially if they did it in alphabetical order.

I'd love to see a copy of any original list, if it exists, for comparison purposes with GR's media statements.

 

[Magiefeu]

or possibly the author just having a creative moment - after all "tryst" has more of a shock value than "affair" and leaves more of an "impression". But really whatever word chosen - meaning is the same IMO

 

[dansmom]

I thought Ms. Caron's statement here was quite curious
http://www.evesun.com/news/stories/2013-02-27/16922/Womans-body-found-in-Pharsalia/

“He keeps saying he doesn’t understand why Jennifer would have been there [and] that was not the route she would have taken.”

Curious statement to make...especially considering he found her phone nearby...and...that the van was found in Norwich...so OBVIOUSLY she was not on whatever route she was supposed to be on.

Curious that he says he doesn't understand why Jennifer would have been there...attempting to distance himself???

Re-reading the article and GR's comment about an "out of body experience." He also mentions this in another interview. I wonder has Mr. Ramsaran always been prone to disassociative behavior or is this "new". He also mentions text book signs of stress. I wonder, because you know...malingerer comes to mind this morning. I lost a loved one to an awful auto accident, I was in shock to some degree and of course we all react differently, but truly
not an out of body experience. Oh well to each his own.

If I were in some way involved in the tragedy that is the killing of Jennifer, perhaps I would be looking to psychology to understand my behavior. This case is so rich with detail about the husband's emotional state yet so poor in detail about the true day Jennifer had on December 11, 2012.

Sad to think: What was on Jennifer's mind when she woke up that morning? Was it a morning like any other when she opened her eyes and woke up her children?