NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest*

[kittythehare]

My point is he wasn’t trying to, which is what the charge is saying. The reason this is making headlines, is that people are trying to make it a race issue, without any evidence.

Did he go to far? No question.

But my point is simply he wasn’t trying to kill him.

I don't subscribe to the race issue aspect- yet because to date there is zero evidence that the killer held racist views.
That may well change.

neely was a human though and that will never change

 

[BrownRice]

My point is he wasn’t trying to, which is what the charge is saying. The reason this is making headlines, is that people are trying to make it a race issue, without any evidence.

Did he go to far? No question.

But my point is simply he wasn’t trying to kill him.

First, I saw that you’re a Marine. Thank you for your service. My dad was as well.

When I originally saw a condensed shortened video, I thought ok, justified. But then when I saw the longer one, it was disturbing. It went on for so long and the victim wasn’t fighting back. He was barely moving, yet the former Marine kept him in a chokehold. Because he didn’t mean to kill him doesn’t mean he can’t be charged with manslaughter.

 

[JurassicParker]

Why not try to deescalate the situation? Why is violence the only solution people choose these days? That Marine is trained to kill. 15 minutes. He could have stopped. He could have done a lot of things besides killing him. The people standing around watching…….I have no words. Things could be different. It’s sad that empathy is hard to find.

 

[MassGuy]

First, I saw that you’re a Marine. Thank you for your service. My dad was as well.

When I originally saw a condensed shortened video, I thought ok, justified. But then when I saw the longer one, it was disturbing. It went on for so long and the victim wasn’t fighting back. He was barely moving, yet the former Marine kept him in a chokehold. Because he didn’t mean to kill him doesn’t mean he can’t be charged with manslaughter.

I’m not saying that. We agree, there was no intent. The charge says that. He was reckless.

 

[MassGuy]

There's a million links and theories to why he was still out there.
Thing is someone killed him.
He didn't need to die for being 'out there' and his out thereness is part of a much wider sociological problem which we will not solve here, no matter how much we would like to.

There's many still out there.

Every crime leaves a victim; many of these crimes leave victims who suffer forever. He left dozens in his wake. My point is that he shouldn’t have been a free man in the first place.

 

[kittythehare]

Every crime leaves a victim; many of these crimes leave victims who suffer forever. He left dozens in his wake. My point is that he shouldn’t have been a free man in the first place.

Well, 15 months sobriety had obviously helped his mind because the Judge gave him a break.
He could not handle the addiction centre though, walked out after 13 days.

I'd be interested in finding out what exactly happened to him while he was there, (NYT link)

Again, he was not extrajudicially killed for his crime file or his mental health or addiction status.
He was killed because somebody killed him, somebody who had better options.

 

[kittythehare]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1657013810522206208

 

[Ontario Mom]

My point is he wasn’t trying to, which is what the charge is saying. The reason this is making headlines, is that people are trying to make it a race issue, without any evidence.

Did he go to far? No question.

But my point is simply he wasn’t trying to kill him.

Thank you for being what I see as a voice of rational response.
From all I've read, he was attempting to restrain him until LE could take over.
That's it. There was never any malice on his part, only protecting the public.

I'm honestly stunned more can't see this.

 

[Trebor5591]

100%
It's a sad sad world <modsnip - social media discussion>
he got his first kill
handy target.
<modsnip - political commentary>

That kid was a brilliant dancer, he only needed some help, instead macho man launched and crushed and so many people rejoiced.

JMO, but put me on that jury and I will vote not guilty, and thank the ex-Marine for protecting the other people in that subway car.

 

[angelainwi]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

I have ridden the Subway in NYC many times! I have never felt the need to be armed. I have several life long friends who live there with their families. General rule there is letting children start riding the subways there ALONE to school in 7th grade. I have never had any of them share an incident yet that has stopped them from letting their kids use it for transportation to school and back. I have heard stories of interesting people the kids have observed and these stories have made for some great discussions.

Edited to spell transportation right lol OMG I spelled it wrong twice

 

[kittythehare]

JMO, but put me on that jury and I will vote not guilty, and thank the ex-Marine for protecting the other people in that subway car.

If they put you on the jury you will be asked to sit through the video of Jordan's killing.

 

[JurassicParker]

My point is he wasn’t trying to, which is what the charge is saying. The reason this is making headlines, is that people are trying to make it a race issue, without any evidence.

Did he go to far? No question.

But my point is simply he wasn’t trying to kill him.

What was he doing then? Once again….15 minutes. That’s a LONG time. You can walk a mile in 15 minutes. As a soldier you should know what is capable of happening in 15 minutes. “Brain death” can start at 1 minute. The “Sleeper” at 30 seconds. This young man held on far longer than was necessary. Especially since the man wasn’t armed or striking out at anyone. Just being loud. We need to be better as humans and less judgmental.

 

[MassGuy]

What was he doing then? Once again….15 minutes. That’s a LONG time. You can walk a mile in 15 minutes. As a soldier you should know what is capable of happening in 15 minutes. “Brain death” can start at 1 minute. The “Sleeper” at 30 seconds. This young man held on far longer than was necessary. Especially since the man wasn’t armed or striking out at anyone. Just being loud. We need to be better as humans and less judgmental.

That car should have been stopped within a minute, at the most. I’m not denying he went too far, not at all.

<modsnip - off limits>

 

[angelainwi]

<modsnip - quoted post, response removed>
Kids who grow up in NYC proper have been brought up with homeless people living close by and seeing them on a daily basis if outside. They do not fear them like outsiders do. AT least not the ones I know because they have been brought up by parents who have explained homelessness to them and taught them how to protect themselves. I can guarantee if any of these kids felt unsafe in a car because of someone's behavior they would have a) kept their distance and b) moved to another car if they did not feel they could safely keep their distance. This is what their parents have taught them and I don't understand why adults would not handle the situation in the same way.

 

[MassGuy]

This Marine <modsnip> stood up for his fellow passengers.

He killed him, that isn’t in question.

But this wasn’t malicious, and the charges say as much.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I disagree.
Because it's simply not okay to cold bloodedly kill someone .
Someone who was merely very annoying but posed no threat, actually.
Do people really believe it's okay to exterminate the mentally ill in our societies?

Jordan Neely is the victim here.
He is dead.
Everybody is now future proofed from any perceived threat from Jordan Neely.

How is that okay?

I can't speak to anyone who actually believes it's "okay" to exterminate the mentally ill in our societies, as you suggest because frankly, I think such people are certifiably flaming insane. See below.

<modsnip - off topic>

As it pertains to THIS case: do I think this young man intended to "exterminate" the victim?
Absolutely not. I believe he intended to nuetralize a threat, and do a good thing, for all concerned.
It ended badly, but not because he intended it to end that way.

I realize this seems to be the unpopular opinion here. I'm okay with that.

 

[10ofRods]

Okay, let's say they felt threatened. This man did not try to protect them, ask the man to calm down, etc. He jumped him from behind and killed him.

I'm not okaying his previous actions, but since the Marine didn't know about them, they seem moot.

If I started acting erratic on the train and yelled how hungry and thirsty and frustrated I was, does that allow someone else to subdue me to the point where I am killed? I doubt it. No one would know my past history.

Is it only okay because he was homeless or a POC?

***I am NOT suggesting that you or others on this board are saying it was okay because of either of those reasons. I guess I am asking where is the line? There seems to be more and more crimes against people because they made others feel anxious. (riding a train, pulling into a driveway, knocking at a door). If I did one of those things as a white woman, would those people feel as threatened? I'm guessing not.

Well, in this scenario are you a man? If yes, then up your changes of getting hurt (if you are mentally ill). Are you also a PoC? As you suggest, that's a big risk factor.

You are absolutely right - no past history involved here. Of course, if each car or every couple of subway cars had its own daily staff and cameras, then they might have been trained to intervene in an appropriate way.

It's amazing to me that people are getting laid off from actual jobs while we rely increasingly on...what? Not even cameras? Not even robots taking pictures and documenting?

IMO

 

[kittythehare]

I can't speak to anyone who actually believes it's "okay" to exterminate the mentally ill in our societies, as you suggest because frankly, I think such people are certifiably flaming insane. See below.

<modsnip - off topic>

As it pertains to THIS case: do I think this young man intended to "exterminate" the victim?
Absolutely not. I believe he intended to nuetralize a threat, and do a good thing, for all concerned.
It ended badly, but not because he intended it to end that way.

I realize this seems to be the unpopular opinion here. I'm okay with that.

Here you go

https://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Portals/207/Docs/FMTBE/Student%20Materials/MCECST/B_Tan_Belt_Execute_Chokes_%20SO.pdf?ver=pJH__SmOfUgRAWuTKRUJDQ%3D%3D

NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

www.nysenate.gov

 

[Ontario Mom]

Here you go

https://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Portals/207/Docs/FMTBE/Student%20Materials/MCECST/B_Tan_Belt_Execute_Chokes_%20SO.pdf?ver=pJH__SmOfUgRAWuTKRUJDQ%3D%3D

NYS Open Legislation | NYSenate.gov

www.nysenate.gov

I'm not sure what that is. Can you summarize your point?
I'm tired, lol, I've been in the garden all day. Just trying to understand where you're coming from.

 

[Sundog]

Marine veteran who held Jordan Neely in fatal chokehold to be charged with second-degree manslaughter, DA's office says | CNN

Daniel Penny, the US Marine veteran who held Jordan Neely in a fatal chokehold aboard a New York subway train earlier this month, will be arrested on a charge of second-degree manslaughter, a spokesperson for the Manhattan District Attorney's Office said Thursday.

www.cnn.com

The DA is going for Second Degree Manslaughter. To me, this sounds like a fair charge.

<snipped for focus>

Let's hope he can get a fair trial, they may have to change venue for that to be possible.