NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #3

[epiphany]

Rape by Strangers

<snip> In a world obsessed with data and pre-emption, the Police Department does not make public a map of where and when stranger rapes have occurred, so that women might avoid particular streets or neighborhoods at certain times as a precaution...

<snip> Spokesmen for the department explain that it doesn&#8217;t publicize the location of stranger rapes because doing so would violate the privacy of victims by making their addresses known...It is hard to see how a map simply indicating where the crimes took place by block, or even by sectors of blocks, would imperil anyone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/24/nyregion/rape-by-strangers-new-york-city.html

 

[epiphany]

Was coming to post the new article but see it was posted above ^^^. I'm hoping this will help get leads!!! However, I thought this was already done and nothing came back.

http://www.newsday.com/news/new-yor...ed-in-ny-could-help-in-jogger-case-1.12682373

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^^RBBM

Specialized familial DNA technique is Not done in NY:

<snip> The more specialized familial DNA searching, known to professionals by the abbreviation FS, is done in nine states...Philip Vetrano, Karina&#8217;s father, said he was astonished to learn it is not used in New York and promised to raise the issue with police and government officials.

&#8220;I am going to stop at nothing to have this done,&#8221; said Vetrano, who now wants investigators to give it a try.

http://www.newsday.com/news/new-yor...ed-in-ny-could-help-in-jogger-case-1.12682373

 

[Lauranyc83]

i stumbled across this page and it really is incredible to see so many people interested in her. as her cousin, i miss her more and more every day, especially with the holidays. but this is actually comforting. keep going guys, you rock&#10084;&#65039;


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Keeping you and your family in my thoughts during the Holiday. <3

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[Momoffourboys]

i stumbled across this page and it really is incredible to see so many people interested in her. as her cousin, i miss her more and more every day, especially with the holidays. but this is actually comforting. keep going guys, you rock&#10084;&#65039;


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:welcome4:

Glad to have you here. Wish it were not under these horrific circumstances.
No words as to how truly sorry I am for your loss.

 

[Inthedetails]

^^RBBM

Specialized familial DNA technique is Not done in NY:

<snip> The more specialized familial DNA searching, known to professionals by the abbreviation FS, is done in nine states...Philip Vetrano, Karina&#8217;s father, said he was astonished to learn it is not used in New York and promised to raise the issue with police and government officials.

&#8220;I am going to stop at nothing to have this done,&#8221; said Vetrano, who now wants investigators to give it a try.

http://www.newsday.com/news/new-yor...ed-in-ny-could-help-in-jogger-case-1.12682373

Good for him.

I think the dad is a man of action, and I am happy to see him work on helping others. Of course, I want to see the crime of his own child solved too!!

 

[Inthedetails]

i stumbled across this page and it really is incredible to see so many people interested in her. as her cousin, i miss her more and more every day, especially with the holidays. but this is actually comforting. keep going guys, you rock&#10084;&#65039;


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I'm sorry about what circumstanced brought you here, but I do welcome you. I've read on other cases that family and friends are comforted by WS. I hope that is true for you too.

And, we all really do want this case to be solved and for justice to be served.

 

[deedee21]

I also thought this test had been done. But I do hope that it yields some positive results. I wonder if law enforcement in the U.S. has access to criminal databases in other countries? What if the perpetrator got on a plane at nearby JFK?

One if not more of the Islands keep DNA on file. I wonder if that has been looked at? Criminals fly home on a regular basis.

 

[deedee21]

i stumbled across this page and it really is incredible to see so many people interested in her. as her cousin, i miss her more and more every day, especially with the holidays. but this is actually comforting. keep going guys, you rock&#10084;&#65039;


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know I speak for everyone when I say sorry for your loss. The cops will get him.

 

[mraccountant]

The circumstances are a tad different but the MO is very similar here to a case that is unsolved in Massachusetts , where as the death of a young woman employed by google was murdered while out for a jog the victim being (VM) - I know that assumptions are being made about VM's personal life which are leading many to believe that it was her involvement with certain activities that ended with her demise, but I think the circumstances with these two cases are too similar (body type, activity, how victim is found and most importantly the complete cluelessness of who a possible suspect could be as both girls seemed to be successful and no ties to anyone that LE would deem a viable suspect ultimately leading to some idea of a motive - there is no motive in both these cases, just random & unexpected) this is why I think we are looking for the same suspect here, one that clearly has a problem with girls who pay particular attention to their physical fitness, a suspect that is left to feel intimidated "lack of self worth" which would set this unsub in a rage, a rage that he would need to do whatever possible to take back control to get that feeling of self worth back - in every case that we study, or discuss with my students those cases involving sexual assault resulting in death (especially if the death is caused by asphyxiation - strangulation) its those cases we have found where the unsub felt most in control and got their sexual release through having total control over the life and death of their victim - in their mind bringing someone back to life over and over - this type of predator ultimately sees themselves as god, in my opinion. For predators that seek this type of power, they are ultimately the most dangerous. This power is almost as potent as heroin is to a narcotics addict - and once they have that hit, its not before long where that feeling of self worth is damaged. That said, it won't be too long in my professional opinion that these psychological deviants find another victim that will ultimately result in the finding of another body with the same set of circumstances. I hope I am wrong, but if I am not - I hope they catch the evil bastards that are doing this sooner rather than later!

 

[liz b.]

The circumstances are a tad different but the MO is very similar here to a case that is unsolved in Massachusetts , where as the death of a young woman employed by google was murdered while out for a jog the victim being (VM) - I know that assumptions are being made about VM's personal life which are leading many to believe that it was her involvement with certain activities that ended with her demise, but I think the circumstances with these two cases are too similar (body type, activity, how victim is found and most importantly the complete cluelessness of who a possible suspect could be as both girls seemed to be successful and no ties to anyone that LE would deem a viable suspect ultimately leading to some idea of a motive - there is no motive in both these cases, just random & unexpected) this is why I think we are looking for the same suspect here, one that clearly has a problem with girls who pay particular attention to their physical fitness, a suspect that is left to feel intimidated "lack of self worth" which would set this unsub in a rage, a rage that he would need to do whatever possible to take back control to get that feeling of self worth back - in every case that we study, or discuss with my students those cases involving sexual assault resulting in death (especially if the death is caused by asphyxiation - strangulation) its those cases we have found where the unsub felt most in control and got their sexual release through having total control over the life and death of their victim - in their mind bringing someone back to life over and over - this type of predator ultimately sees themselves as god, in my opinion. For predators that seek this type of power, they are ultimately the most dangerous. This power is almost as potent as heroin is to a narcotics addict - and once they have that hit, its not before long where that feeling of self worth is damaged. That said, it won't be too long in my professional opinion that these psychological deviants find another victim that will ultimately result in the finding of another body with the same set of circumstances. I hope I am wrong, but if I am not - I hope they catch the evil bastards that are doing this sooner rather than later!

I agree. Both victims Italian American. They resembled each other. Both quite small in stature. Both into fitness. That might be a possible avenue for this perp to have seen them, or met them. jmo

 

[mraccountant]

I agree, I spent time with my students this week laying out the time line leading up to the murder, the murder scene - evidence collection (as well as the search individuals who happened to find the body) we did this for both , now their next assignment is finding a connection (if any) between both victims (acquaintances, marathon/races, gyms, social connections etc) ill let you know what we find.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

What if the connection was he was passing by and saw a girl alone in an isolated place that fit his fantasy? He could be passing by if he was on the run from NY. Very hard to solve. (Did LE find DNA on Vanessa case? ) I agree that the likelihood of repeating his crime is unfortunately high. A detective once told me sex crimes are the only crimes that the perpetrator can not vary his m.o. (Due to sexual obsession )

 

[ThinkHard]

Yes, very low. And this particular assault was over the top brutal. Similar in scope to the assault and murder of VM in Mass. also in an area with no/low such incidents......

KV was murdered in an area known as being sketchy and also an old mafia dumping ground....not exactly the same type of area as Princeton ... not even close.

 

[ThinkHard]

The circumstances are a tad different but the MO is very similar here to a case that is unsolved in Massachusetts , where as the death of a young woman employed by google was murdered while out for a jog the victim being (VM) - I know that assumptions are being made about VM's personal life which are leading many to believe that it was her involvement with certain activities that ended with her demise, but I think the circumstances with these two cases are too similar (body type, activity, how victim is found and most importantly the complete cluelessness of who a possible suspect could be as both girls seemed to be successful and no ties to anyone that LE would deem a viable suspect ultimately leading to some idea of a motive - there is no motive in both these cases, just random & unexpected) this is why I think we are looking for the same suspect here, one that clearly has a problem with girls who pay particular attention to their physical fitness, a suspect that is left to feel intimidated "lack of self worth" which would set this unsub in a rage, a rage that he would need to do whatever possible to take back control to get that feeling of self worth back - in every case that we study, or discuss with my students those cases involving sexual assault resulting in death (especially if the death is caused by asphyxiation - strangulation) its those cases we have found where the unsub felt most in control and got their sexual release through having total control over the life and death of their victim - in their mind bringing someone back to life over and over - this type of predator ultimately sees themselves as god, in my opinion. For predators that seek this type of power, they are ultimately the most dangerous. This power is almost as potent as heroin is to a narcotics addict - and once they have that hit, its not before long where that feeling of self worth is damaged. That said, it won't be too long in my professional opinion that these psychological deviants find another victim that will ultimately result in the finding of another body with the same set of circumstances. I hope I am wrong, but if I am not - I hope they catch the evil bastards that are doing this sooner rather than later!

This has been discussed at length early on. Are you familiar with Princeton though?

Transversing btw both areas has its challenges especially since she took a bus home arriving in Worcester and would have been picked up there and driven by car to Princeton about 1/2 hr from the bus stop all on back roads. The perp also would likely have to have been familiar with Princeton as well.

Also VM'/s cause of death has never been released ... it has only been assumed she was strangled we do not actually KNOW that. It has also never been confirmed that their was sexual assault again its only an assumption because she was found without clothing. So given those are unknowns and only assumptions...it would be a tad of a stretch in my opinion to say the MO's are the same.

 

[ThinkHard]

I agree, I spent time with my students this week laying out the time line leading up to the murder, the murder scene - evidence collection (as well as the search individuals who happened to find the body) we did this for both , now their next assignment is finding a connection (if any) between both victims (acquaintances, marathon/races, gyms, social connections etc) ill let you know what we find.

Yes it will be interesting if they find a connection. Many of us having been here looking at these cases since day one, and none of us have found a connection bye the two girls....lived and worked in different areas of NYC so likely didn't go to the same gym or hang out in the same places...But Maybe your students will have better luck. I look forward to hearing what they come up with.

 

[ThinkHard]

What if the connection was he was passing by and saw a girl alone in an isolated place that fit his fantasy? He could be passing by if he was on the run from NY. Very hard to solve. (Did LE find DNA on Vanessa case? ) I agree that the likelihood of repeating his crime is unfortunately high. A detective once told me sex crimes are the only crimes that the perpetrator can not vary his m.o. (Due to sexual obsession )

You wouldn't really be on the run from NYC and end up in Princeton unless you knew someone there...it's less the 2000 people, has no hotels, and is near no highways...it doesn't even have a gas station or a stop light.

Also yes they have DNA in both cases and have never change there early stance that the cases were unrelated...I feel if DNA said otherwise they would have announced it.

 

[liz b.]

You wouldn't really be on the run from NYC and end up in Princeton unless you knew someone there...it's less the 2000 people, has no hotels, and is near no highways...it doesn't even have a gas station or a stop light.

Also yes they have DNA in both cases and have never change there early stance that the cases were unrelated...I feel if DNA said otherwise they would have announced it.

I thought they have not ever said conclusively that the two murders were not related ? It sounds like they have collected the perp's DNA from both victims, yet have never come out and said the DNA samples don't match.

 

[liz b.]

KV was murdered in an area known as being sketchy and also an old mafia dumping ground....not exactly the same type of area as Princeton ... not even close.

Both areas are somewhat isolated. But, I noticed that both areas are not far from homes ( both victims were found 1/2 mile from their parents' homes ) It's interesting. Because the perp wouldn't have had much " alone times " with his victims. I always felt that these were murders, that his or their primary motive was murder,rather than sexual assault, but jmo.

 

[ThinkHard]

I thought they have not ever said conclusively that the two murders were not related ? It sounds like they have collected the perp's DNA from both victims, yet have never come out and said the DNA samples don't match.

It's true they have never said "the DNA in KV and VM doesn't match" but they have said they do not believe there is a connection...and haven't changed that stance even after both cases DNA samples had been run. From studying other cases when DNA doesn't match they do not usually come out and announce that....they only tend to announce things when there is a match or change from their original statement.

One example is how in the Jesse Matthews case even though they made a big deal in testing it against the Alexis Murphy case....but when it didn't match they never came out and announce for this, they just let the story die out.

 

[ThinkHard]

Both areas are somewhat isolated. But, I noticed that both areas are not far from homes ( both victims were found 1/2 mile from their parents' homes ) It's interesting. Because the perp wouldn't have had much " alone times " with his victims. I always felt that these were murders, that his or their primary motive was murder,rather than sexual assault, but jmo.

I agree that there are some similarities but growing up next to Princeton (as in practically on the town line) and having lived in NYC I see far more diffences in location then similarities.

I don't think a connection is impossible but in my mind for a connection to work I believe the perp would have had to have first hand familiarity with both areas. Meaning someone originally from Princeton who moved to NYC as well, or someone living in NYC with friends or family in Princeton.

I definelty agree with you about motive though, I don't think it was about sexual assault that went too far.