When I read that statement made during the original investigation, I found it odd. I would have wanted to ask what acquaintance? Was the tattoo a branding? Was Remy a pimp? This girl was murdered so horribly and they just dismissed the tattoo by saying Remy was an acquaintance. I used to live in a city overrun with Crips and Bloods hiding out from California. Everyone knew they were in town but it was three years before LE would admit it. They did not want any press about gangs. I wonder if this might have been the same situation in Manorville.
NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #11
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VERDICT WATCH FL - Doug Benefield, 58, shot and killed by estranged wife, Manatee County, 27 Sept 2020- Latest: nodamselindistress
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Here is a man convicted of 1 murder of a prostitute, but suspected of 9 others. Could the long gap be because the LISK is currently incarcerated somewhere for something?
http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/node/706765
Peter Brendt
New Member
Well. it COULD be. But then, strangulation is very common under serial killers. This guy left the body out in the open, unwrapped and not in thick underwood?
waltzingmatilda
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Here is a link to the thread for the Rocky Mount SK for those interested.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85875&highlight=Rocky+Mount+Serial+Killer
wm
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85875&highlight=Rocky+Mount+Serial+Killer
wm
Peter Brendt
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Thank you! Now I know at least, which one we are talking. I can try and build a preliminary profile, but some details are missing or I can't find them on the double.
internetgirl101
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How artist created Gilgo victims' images
Published: September 20, 2011
"The face belonging to the woman known only as Jane Doe No. 6 took about a week for forensic artist Danielle Gruttadaurio to conjure."
"She needed about a month to compose the face of the Asian man. His death was particularly violent and his remains left her with far less to work with."
"Even though it was intact," Gruttadaurio said of the man's skull, "there were so many little bones that were out of place."
"Their skulls were her blueprint. As she worked, they were perched on her desk in a windowless office on the second floor of Suffolk County police headquarters in Yaphank. For weeks, she scrutinized every bump and irregularity, every curve and angle, using vinyl markers cut from pencil erasers to measure facial-tissue depth so she could extrapolate faces from the skulls."
"I want to keep the skull here so I can feel for certain parts of it," said Gruttadaurio, 29."
"Because they died years ago, she leafed through old high school yearbook photos to come up with a likely hairstyle for her victims, and guessed at hair color and skin tone."
"Said Det. Sgt. Bob Feeney, a supervisor in Gruttadaurio's unit: "She went with the style of that era for a woman of that time."
"The former schoolteacher studied art at the Fashion Institute of Technology and Stony Brook University. She joined the police department two years ago and has drawn about 15 composites of suspects from witness descriptions. The Gilgo victims are her first sketches from actual forensic evidence."
"The process began with information typically provided by a forensic anthropologist. Gruttadaurio knew her victims' genders, approximate ages and races. For the woman, she had a little more, thanks to hair follicles found with her remains. Police knew the woman had wavy, shoulder-length hair of varying shades of brown and blonde."
"For the man, she simply had to guess that, in all likelihood, his hair was black."
"Reconstruction began with the 21 tissue-depth markers placed on pre-determined points on the skull to indicate thickness of muscle and skin. The first 10 are located between the middle of the forehead and the middle of the chin. The other 11 are placed at other strategic points, the eye sockets for instance."
"His nose veered a little bit off to the left," she said, holding a mock skull to demonstrate how the markings are read. "The inner and outer corner of his eyes were placed pretty high up and his eye orbits would tell me where his eyebrows would lay. It's outlining the tissue-depth markers and following the jawline. . . . The sides of your nose should follow the shape of your nasal aperture."
"The size of a person's lips correlate to the size of their teeth, she said. The six front teeth determine the width of a person's mouth."
"Full-time forensic artists like Gruttadaurio are rare; not all police department budgets allow for them."
"Gruttadaurio consulted other colleagues in her field, like Det. Evelyn Grant, a part-time forensic artist with the Baltimore County Police Department. Grant, 29, has reconstructed six victims; two were identified."
"People think skulls look all the same," said Grant. "But you'd be amazed how every single one looks different."
"Gruttadaurio sent her sketches to her unofficial mentor, Karen T. Taylor, a leading forensic artist. Gruttadaurio said she considers Taylor's 580-page book, "Forensic Art and Illustration," her bible."
"Taylor, who is based in Austin, Texas, and others like her are a "close, little knit family . . . all willing to help each other out," Gruttadaurio said."
"Taylor, who has worked with Texas authorities for two decades, said Gruttadaurio's sketches were impressive. "These reconstructions cannot be absolutely perfect," she said."
"You recognize someone based on the array of facial features, a certain gestalt of the face. . . . "The way our minds process faces, someone who is missing a loved one may well be able to extrapolate one of these images and make that connection."
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/how-artist-created-gilgo-victims-images-1.3187418
Published: September 20, 2011
"The face belonging to the woman known only as Jane Doe No. 6 took about a week for forensic artist Danielle Gruttadaurio to conjure."
"She needed about a month to compose the face of the Asian man. His death was particularly violent and his remains left her with far less to work with."
"Even though it was intact," Gruttadaurio said of the man's skull, "there were so many little bones that were out of place."
"Their skulls were her blueprint. As she worked, they were perched on her desk in a windowless office on the second floor of Suffolk County police headquarters in Yaphank. For weeks, she scrutinized every bump and irregularity, every curve and angle, using vinyl markers cut from pencil erasers to measure facial-tissue depth so she could extrapolate faces from the skulls."
"I want to keep the skull here so I can feel for certain parts of it," said Gruttadaurio, 29."
"Because they died years ago, she leafed through old high school yearbook photos to come up with a likely hairstyle for her victims, and guessed at hair color and skin tone."
"Said Det. Sgt. Bob Feeney, a supervisor in Gruttadaurio's unit: "She went with the style of that era for a woman of that time."
"The former schoolteacher studied art at the Fashion Institute of Technology and Stony Brook University. She joined the police department two years ago and has drawn about 15 composites of suspects from witness descriptions. The Gilgo victims are her first sketches from actual forensic evidence."
"The process began with information typically provided by a forensic anthropologist. Gruttadaurio knew her victims' genders, approximate ages and races. For the woman, she had a little more, thanks to hair follicles found with her remains. Police knew the woman had wavy, shoulder-length hair of varying shades of brown and blonde."
"For the man, she simply had to guess that, in all likelihood, his hair was black."
"Reconstruction began with the 21 tissue-depth markers placed on pre-determined points on the skull to indicate thickness of muscle and skin. The first 10 are located between the middle of the forehead and the middle of the chin. The other 11 are placed at other strategic points, the eye sockets for instance."
"His nose veered a little bit off to the left," she said, holding a mock skull to demonstrate how the markings are read. "The inner and outer corner of his eyes were placed pretty high up and his eye orbits would tell me where his eyebrows would lay. It's outlining the tissue-depth markers and following the jawline. . . . The sides of your nose should follow the shape of your nasal aperture."
"The size of a person's lips correlate to the size of their teeth, she said. The six front teeth determine the width of a person's mouth."
"Full-time forensic artists like Gruttadaurio are rare; not all police department budgets allow for them."
"Gruttadaurio consulted other colleagues in her field, like Det. Evelyn Grant, a part-time forensic artist with the Baltimore County Police Department. Grant, 29, has reconstructed six victims; two were identified."
"People think skulls look all the same," said Grant. "But you'd be amazed how every single one looks different."
"Gruttadaurio sent her sketches to her unofficial mentor, Karen T. Taylor, a leading forensic artist. Gruttadaurio said she considers Taylor's 580-page book, "Forensic Art and Illustration," her bible."
"Taylor, who is based in Austin, Texas, and others like her are a "close, little knit family . . . all willing to help each other out," Gruttadaurio said."
"Taylor, who has worked with Texas authorities for two decades, said Gruttadaurio's sketches were impressive. "These reconstructions cannot be absolutely perfect," she said."
"You recognize someone based on the array of facial features, a certain gestalt of the face. . . . "The way our minds process faces, someone who is missing a loved one may well be able to extrapolate one of these images and make that connection."
http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/how-artist-created-gilgo-victims-images-1.3187418
Mountain_Kat
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That explains why I see pretzels and shame, I guess. :floorlaugh:
When the human interest stories like the one yesterday about the forensic artist are the only thing keeping a case in public view it is a sure sign that a case is all but dead.
Sorry everyone. This case has turned cold.
Sorry everyone. This case has turned cold.
goathairjones
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I'm afraid that you may be correct, Redbird! And Oak Beach is the home to many Babylon town Democrat power brokers including a past county executive. It stinks of a dead fish!
Reannan
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I just can't believe this case can be dead!!! I refuse to accept it!! These victims deserve justice, and I don't think any of us here at WS's can just simply accept this case as "closed". Nope... not going to happen. We have to find a way to keep it alive. :banghead:
waltzingmatilda
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goathairjones, As the saying goes, 'The fish stinks from the Head down!'.:floorlaugh:
wm
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*sigh* Well, if it took SCPD a good fifteen years to commence to even fathom a serial killer I'm afraid it may be another fifteen years if he is caught at all.
Peter Brendt
New Member
As most serial killer cases. Once there were really successes by investigation, nowadays it's back to "old world" niveau. Serial killers are caught by parking tickets.
Peter Brendt
New Member
Okay, who can find out some details? I'm too far away and Google maps doesn't help me too much.
- How long would Costello from Babylon would have traveled to Gilgo and how long to Manhattan? Consider buses also.
- This whole summer resident thing, is that concentrated on the peninsula or all LI area? What about the other isles?
- When was, or is there, extensive construction activity in the area of Gilgo Beach till Oak Beach? What kind? What has changed in the area since then?
- How far is this hotel in Hauppauge where Waterman disappeared to the beach and to Oak Beach? Not in miles, but in realistic travel
- What would be the next place with residents after Oak Beach and to which direction? I'm interested in concentration on non permanent partially locals like summer guests.
- Where in the NY area would be the logical place for a rented workspace/workshop which is not open to the public? Like tool and small material storage?
- Does someone know which model year is Brewer's white SUV?
There are enough questions, we can still ask and find answers for, regardless whether LE thinks, the case is cold.
- How long would Costello from Babylon would have traveled to Gilgo and how long to Manhattan? Consider buses also.
- This whole summer resident thing, is that concentrated on the peninsula or all LI area? What about the other isles?
- When was, or is there, extensive construction activity in the area of Gilgo Beach till Oak Beach? What kind? What has changed in the area since then?
- How far is this hotel in Hauppauge where Waterman disappeared to the beach and to Oak Beach? Not in miles, but in realistic travel
- What would be the next place with residents after Oak Beach and to which direction? I'm interested in concentration on non permanent partially locals like summer guests.
- Where in the NY area would be the logical place for a rented workspace/workshop which is not open to the public? Like tool and small material storage?
- Does someone know which model year is Brewer's white SUV?
There are enough questions, we can still ask and find answers for, regardless whether LE thinks, the case is cold.
goathairjones
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Peter,
I'll take a stab at your questions:
- How long would Costello from Babylon would have traveled to Gilgo and how long to Manhattan? Consider buses also.
It would take 20 minutes to drive from America Ave in North Babylon to Gilgo Beach. It would take 1 hour to drive from North Babylon to Manhattan. The train would also take 1 hour from Babylon to Manhattan. I don't think a bus is an option to either place due to connections and time.
- This whole summer resident thing, is that concentrated on the peninsula or all LI area? What about the other isles?
Summer rentals are available in Gilgo Beach and Oak Beach. It's not a big percentage of the houses. Summer rentals on Fire Island and in the Hamptons is huge. Probably the majority of the residents are renters in the summer.
- When was, or is there, extensive construction activity in the area of Gilgo Beach till Oak Beach? What kind? What has changed in the area since then?
There has been extensive construction on and off on the Robert Moses Causeway, Robert Moses Bridge, the Captree Draw Bridge and the bridge that spans the Fire Island inlet. This construction has been going on for years. They probably started it on the southbound span of the Robert Moses Bridge in 1995 and it really hasn't stopped since 1995.
Also, every couple of years the Fire Island inlet is dredged and the sand is deposited on Gilgo Beach.
- How far is this hotel in Hauppauge where Waterman disappeared to the beach and to Oak Beach? Not in miles, but in realistic travel
It is a 25-30 minute drive from the hotel in Hauppauge to Oak Beach.
- What would be the next place with residents after Oak Beach and to which direction? I'm interested in concentration on non permanent partially locals like summer guests.
To the east of Oak Beach there is Captree Island. Very similar to Oak Beach but much smaller. Only about 30 homes.
Just north of Oak Beach is Oak Island. You can only get there by boat. There is a small parking lot for residents just west of Oak Beach. Only about 30 homes there as well.
And to the west of Oak Beach is Gilgo Beach, which has about 50 homes and then West Gilgo Beach which also has about 50 homes.
- Where in the NY area would be the logical place for a rented workspace/workshop which is not open to the public? Like tool and small material storage?
???
- Does someone know which model year is Brewer's white SUV?
I believe it is a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Peter Brendt
New Member
Thanks a lot. Okay, here is the point: We had here basically three basic profiles on the board as far as Gilgo Beach is involved.
1.) Someone local who killed the GB4 and also the Manorville victims
2.) Two SKs (Manorville and LISK2) which are both local (means Manorville in Manorville, LISK2 in LI).
3.) Two SKs of which Manorville is local, LISK2 from the NY Area and even there only part of the year there.
Based on that situation, we can each of us concentrate on the favorite one. All, that chose the same build a little group and try to gather ideas, imaginations and evidence for that basic profile. Those who are in the area or know it can help out with silly questions, about NY and LI (like mine). Any volunteers? I chose Number Three (since it was originally mine).
Okay, back to the questions:
Costello needed one hour with at least one pretty reliable way of transportation to NY. Since LI is more of a seasonal business, and NY only one hour away, I like to assume, the bigger part of her business was in Manhattan or the suburbs between NY and LI. One hour is acceptable.
The logical next question along that line is, are there hotels she could have used as base of operation (of course they are, but where would be the biggest concentration of those in NY?).
So most of the seasonal renters are on Fire Island, not Oak Beach or vicinity. Together with how far the Hauppauge hotel is away, there would be no direct connection to Gilgo Beach at all. If I would put a circle around the hotel of twenty-five minutes driving time, I would have virtually dozens of beaches to drop bodies. Is that correct or is Gilgo just the only bad cared piece of beach in the circle and the other ones are nice tourist places without brushes?
Because of all the construction work, this is all roads and bridges. The dredging is probably done by a local company. So, two follow up questions:
- I wonder if anything in road or bridge construction would come in burlap sacks. I never built a road, so I have no idea.
- Is part of this construction work also seasonal and stops when the weather gets colder end of September? I know this from house construction in some areas, but Oak Beach is too old for that kind of thought.
How old are those communities in the vicinity of Oak Beach. I know it from the Midwest, sometimes, some investor places thirty homes somewhere, all built in one or two years. Is that the same there? We have two possibilities in the basic profiles, a local or someone who worked in the area in the past for months. We can assume, the killer has no boat, otherwise, there wouldn't have been need to to drop the bodies anywhere on firm land. So, housing construction work concentrated at what time?
The workspace/workshop question is maybe weird worded. What I'm looking for is an industrial area with small businesses. It has to be relative cheap (nothing in NY is really cheap, I think), virtually deserted at night time and also a place where someone can rent a workshop for storing materials and tools without being afraid, the whole stuff is carried away next week at latest because he is often not there for months. Any ideas?
So Brewer's car is a 2004? And the FBI took it in, examined it for body fluids and fibers and came back the same day with a negative result? This is maybe more a question for those, who want to follow the theory, LISK2 is a local, but humm, how long can someone drive a car without having any kind of biomass or biomess in it. People sneeze, sometimes, they transport pets, sometimes, they sweat a little before the AC kicks in. So, how does it come, there was NOTHING in that car that was worth to be sent to a lab, just to be sure? Does Brewer has dogs or any pets?
Okay, consider this kind of a stone, I threw in the pond.
goathairjones
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Some very interesting information on the LISK board tonight. Mari Gilbert answering very specific questions. She seems to think CPH saw SG that night and saw something bad happening and was told to walk away.
Here is what she posted:
By Mari Gilbert on Oct 17, 2011
1. Why did Alex and Pak contact the Dr. regarding Shannon? The Dr. claims he never saw Shannon that night and he didn’t even know who Brewer was at that time.
Alex, and Pac contacted Hackett because my daughter contacted Alex to find Shannan. We told Alex about my conversation with a Hackett man.
2. Why didn’t Alex or Pak call Shannon’s family to tell them she was missing?
Alex, and Pac are friends. (Which I NEVER heard about this Pac man until AFTER the fact )
Alex allowed Pac to drive Shannan.
( Because Shannan does not have a drivers licence ).
It was NOT until the NEXT day Alex, and Pac went to look for Shannan. ( This is how they knew to go to Hackett’s house ).
3. Did Alex & Pak call or visit Brewer on the day they visited the Dr.?
Yes. Alex, and Pac went to Brewer’s house either Before or After they visited Hackett ( the order is Unlear but they visited Both of them the next morning ).
I believe Hackett DID see Shannan that nite, and tried to help her but either he was too late or was Strongly told to “walk away”.
I believe this is why Mrs. Hackett, and her daughter are Strongly defending him.
I hope this clears thigs up.
PLEASE keep praying we find Shannan, and bring her home soon to her family where she belongs !!
Thank you for listening.
Here is what she posted:
By Mari Gilbert on Oct 17, 2011
1. Why did Alex and Pak contact the Dr. regarding Shannon? The Dr. claims he never saw Shannon that night and he didn’t even know who Brewer was at that time.
Alex, and Pac contacted Hackett because my daughter contacted Alex to find Shannan. We told Alex about my conversation with a Hackett man.
2. Why didn’t Alex or Pak call Shannon’s family to tell them she was missing?
Alex, and Pac are friends. (Which I NEVER heard about this Pac man until AFTER the fact )
Alex allowed Pac to drive Shannan.
( Because Shannan does not have a drivers licence ).
It was NOT until the NEXT day Alex, and Pac went to look for Shannan. ( This is how they knew to go to Hackett’s house ).
3. Did Alex & Pak call or visit Brewer on the day they visited the Dr.?
Yes. Alex, and Pac went to Brewer’s house either Before or After they visited Hackett ( the order is Unlear but they visited Both of them the next morning ).
I believe Hackett DID see Shannan that nite, and tried to help her but either he was too late or was Strongly told to “walk away”.
I believe this is why Mrs. Hackett, and her daughter are Strongly defending him.
I hope this clears thigs up.
PLEASE keep praying we find Shannan, and bring her home soon to her family where she belongs !!
Thank you for listening.
goathairjones
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And here is another Mari Gilbert post:
**Hi Matt
First I would like to thanks you for your support for Shannan, and my family!!
“Do you mind if I ask you a couple questions? (I know you don’t check this site often). What was the caller ID on that call? Did it sounds like the same man you met (at Hackett’s house?) Was there more than one call?”
YES. Hacketts phone number is on my phone records with time, and date.
In ALL Truthfullness I was the Very Last person Shannan spoke to. Her number is on my phone records.
The Very Next incomming call (other than my daughter updating me on if she heard from Shannan) is Hackett.
“Sorry I’m unclear on the the exact time frame Hackett quoted because the article Jim Jones wrote has been forcibly removed (I’m unclear why else it would be removed by admin).”
I (hate) to admit it but Jim is a good writer BUT what he wrote about could have caused harm to Hackett, ME, and my two friends that was with me.
(I will NOT use their names to “protect” them.)
So THANK ME for it being taken down!!
Mr. Jone, and I no longer see eye to eye..so I will only wish him the best in life but I hope he stays out of mine.
*LA
“Doesn’t Mari have proof that the first call came from Hackett?”
YES I DO. His phone number is on my phone records with the time, and day!!
*La n *VeryReal
“I suspect that the first phone call you got from a “Dr. Hackett” was someone pretending to be him..”
Why would Hackett allow an “imposter” to use his phone, and his name to say anything about anything…This makes NO (Common) sence.
Like I have said in other posts I believe Hackett tried to help Shannan but was either too late or was ‘threatened’.
The drifter is clearend, and we (I know who is). My daughter called Alex (approx. 6 hours) the morning After Hackett called me…(Like I had said in other posts because Shannan was NOT picking up her phone all nite)
Anything else I can Not speak about.
Please do NOT go by phone records on “Finding Shannan”….method to our madness.
*Please do NOT believe what Alex says.
*Please do NO believe what you read (even in news articals).
*Please understand the SCPD knows who lives, moves, works, calls, drives, sees, writes, textex…..and they are WATCHING ALL posts here !!
** Can Someone PLEASE send a link here with Shannan’s timeline (or close to it) so others will have the days of event in order..or as so much as has been put together?? **
PLEASE Keep Praying, and help me bring my daughter Shannan Maria Gilbert Home Where She Is SO LOVED n MISSED !!!!
Thanks For Listening !!
**Hi Matt
First I would like to thanks you for your support for Shannan, and my family!!
“Do you mind if I ask you a couple questions? (I know you don’t check this site often). What was the caller ID on that call? Did it sounds like the same man you met (at Hackett’s house?) Was there more than one call?”
YES. Hacketts phone number is on my phone records with time, and date.
In ALL Truthfullness I was the Very Last person Shannan spoke to. Her number is on my phone records.
The Very Next incomming call (other than my daughter updating me on if she heard from Shannan) is Hackett.
“Sorry I’m unclear on the the exact time frame Hackett quoted because the article Jim Jones wrote has been forcibly removed (I’m unclear why else it would be removed by admin).”
I (hate) to admit it but Jim is a good writer BUT what he wrote about could have caused harm to Hackett, ME, and my two friends that was with me.
(I will NOT use their names to “protect” them.)
So THANK ME for it being taken down!!
Mr. Jone, and I no longer see eye to eye..so I will only wish him the best in life but I hope he stays out of mine.
*LA
“Doesn’t Mari have proof that the first call came from Hackett?”
YES I DO. His phone number is on my phone records with the time, and day!!
*La n *VeryReal
“I suspect that the first phone call you got from a “Dr. Hackett” was someone pretending to be him..”
Why would Hackett allow an “imposter” to use his phone, and his name to say anything about anything…This makes NO (Common) sence.
Like I have said in other posts I believe Hackett tried to help Shannan but was either too late or was ‘threatened’.
The drifter is clearend, and we (I know who is). My daughter called Alex (approx. 6 hours) the morning After Hackett called me…(Like I had said in other posts because Shannan was NOT picking up her phone all nite)
Anything else I can Not speak about.
Please do NOT go by phone records on “Finding Shannan”….method to our madness.
*Please do NOT believe what Alex says.
*Please do NO believe what you read (even in news articals).
*Please understand the SCPD knows who lives, moves, works, calls, drives, sees, writes, textex…..and they are WATCHING ALL posts here !!
** Can Someone PLEASE send a link here with Shannan’s timeline (or close to it) so others will have the days of event in order..or as so much as has been put together?? **
PLEASE Keep Praying, and help me bring my daughter Shannan Maria Gilbert Home Where She Is SO LOVED n MISSED !!!!
Thanks For Listening !!
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