NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #12

[goathairjones]

Do they have basements in Oak Beach?

No, no basements in Oak Beach. If they did they would constantly be under water.

 

[Clem Snide]

No, no basements in Oak Beach. If they did they would constantly be under water.

Does anyone suppose that's why he didn't bother burying the bodies? He knew he might hit water? Maybe that's why he used burlap, so that the bodies would still be hidden even though they weren't buried. You know, because the burlap would blend in with the brush.

If so, he must have had his own special reasons for not driving the bodies somewhere where they could be buried.

 

[minazoe]

well it could be a proverbial basement...the kitchen...the back...the mudroom...the garage.

 

[snapdragon2]

I tried to post before and it got deleted

Some thoughts:

1. How is it possible that the dr. called mom from SG's phone and then her phone ends up in the marsh?

2. How could she run out there barefoot? the reeds and marsh grasses would pinch her feet. She wouldn't make it 10 feet. She also wouldn't rip off her clothes from hypothermia unless she was out there for a long time. Sorry folks, but the houses aren't far enough for her to be out there long enough- to get hypothermia.

3. In my opinion: she is a victim of the sk. I think the SK planned it out like all of his other "jobs". SG freaked and "ran", so it was a botched murder. Not according to "plan". I think the body was elsewhere and Sk panicked.

Thoughts?

He didn't call from SG's phone, he called from his own phone. But did he in fact get the number from Alex and MP - did they ever confirm that - that's my question.

 

[snapdragon2]

According to Newsday they found ballet flats. Sorry I can't post a link, I'm posting from my phone.

I read that too, and correct me if I'm wrong but it seemed like the ballet flats might have been in the purse?

Where was it said that they found boots? If that is true, could someone post a link? Thanks.

 

[inspctrgadget]

I have found Long island adresses on Carman Monaco Jr. in:

EAST PATCHOGUE, NY
MEDFORD, NY

Carman Monaco Jr was born Jun 1957

His mother, who died in June 2011, lived in West Islip.
her address is ca 14 miles from Gilgo beach.
And ca. 8 miles from Oak Beach.

His father , who died in 1980, is burried at :
Calverton National Cemetery
Calverton
Suffolk County, NY

This is ca 4 miles from Manorville, NY

I have found no relatives in the Oak/Gilgo Beach area.

Good find.

I found a Suffolk county foreclosure in 2009:
(search by party name for Carman Monaco Jr.)
http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcivil/FCASMain

And I found a lawsuit in a Bronx local court filed in 2007 and disposed in 2009 where he was named as a co-defendant with Hub Tuck Rental Corporation. I assume he works for Hub Truck in Nassau or Suffolk since their attorney also represented him.

(search by party name for Carman Monaco Jr.)
http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcivilLocal/LCMain

Would someone working for a truck rental company in an industrial setting have ready access to burlap? Maybe for preventing damage when moving?

From the website: "The close relationships that Hub has developed with our customers and our knowledge of their industries allows us to always be ready with whatever size, shape or kind of rental vehicle needed. Whether it's tractors, refrigerated trucks, small box trucks, flatbeds or just about anything else."

 

[snapdragon2]

This might be your answer:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/v...pp34jyyTtMQefJ

Snippet ~ '*advertiser censored* Canning, 20, who lives in the area, also recalled the last time he saw the woman.

"That was the last time she was seen. We saw her footprints in the sand. She was in a panic. We thought she was on drugs."


ETA: SORRY, The NY POST link worked yesterday !!! Trying again: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/victims_found_killer_joined_beach_j1Hp5kTApp34jyyTtMQefJ

This article was on Dec 15, 2010, so the info about the Canning's and their seeing her footprints has been out there for a year.

The Cannings live on Anchor Way across the street and down a bit from the Dr U who sold his house. Very near his house is where that 4x4 dirt road takes off Anchor Way }that Seaslug discovered} cutting diagonally across the marsh ending close to CPH's home. Where this road takes off Anchor Way it looks very sandy and could be where she went. Just a possibility.

But seeing footprints in the sand is not the same as seeing someone run into a marsh.

 

[snapdragon2]

INSPECTOR HOLY CRAP!!!



Also, is that a typo or was there indeed a third woman dumped in the pine barrens? Something about this news article makes me recall something about there being three women, two men and even a man's head thrown in a lake out in Manorville when the "Butcher of Manorville" was in the headlines.

Time for all of us to start sleuthing the Butcher of Manorville.

Nah, I don't buy it. He's an entirely different kind of crazy from this SK.

 

[nugzter]

But seeing footprints in the sand is not the same as seeing someone run into a marsh.

I have been looking at the arieal photos and google maps and I can find no sand to speak of. I must be looking in the wrong area. Does any one have the address of CHP, JB, Colletti and the *advertiser censored* who saw the foot prints in the sand? I can try to draw up a path of here movements so we can try to visualize how she could have ended up back in the marshes on her own accord.

 

[Claudette]

Well, looking at my tide map for that area, for today, high tide was at 8 AM/PM, with the low at 3PM. Not sure what he's referring to, specifically, unless tide shifts put them more in the middle of the day last spring and this time last year. That is, I'm assuming the tide high/low shifts. Here's a link to tide by date charts if you feel like checking it out ( link )

I believe seasons affect the tide as well. Most notable winter vs summer. This is due to the tilt of the earth.

 

[Seaslug44]

Excellent video here showing the search and the terrain of the wetlands. No way any of us should buy that she ran into these reeds & marsh. She would have had an easier time climbing over someones fence and hiding in their backyard or busting through a window than trying to enter the saw grass.

Pay close attention to that one close up for an instant of the thorns. Just an impossible story the police are feeding us.

Cops comb through Oak Beach for Shannan Gilbert's remains

 

[Seaslug44]

Only the moon effects the tides. Gravitational pull of the moon causes the waters of the earth to bulge.

By the way, these wetlands are completely cut off from any body of water. The tides have little to no effect on the water that accumulates on the surface. Even so, there are low tides every day. When the moon is full or when the moon is a new moon the tides are more extreme on both sides (tides are controlled by the gravitational pull of the moon). Low tide during a full or new moon phase during ANY month would result in extremely LOW tides during those moon phases.

So for Dormer to say the "tides are low this time of year" is an absolute mouthful of B.S. that would make any oceanographer want to vomit. No matter what time of the year they could have waited a few days for the moon to be closer to full or new and during the low tides twice a day there would be a hell of lot less water anywhere they chose to search. If the tides are effecting the water in the wetlands they are searching then the water is seeping in from under the water table. That would mean that when the tide recedes less than six hours later the water would be gone.

This is middle-school level science.

There is a new low tide every 12 hours and 25 minutes.

 

[Claudette]

Has anyone been able to find other photos of Jessica Taylor other than the (I'm assuming) mug shot?

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I haven't seen it. Anyway, I think the killer knew her and the UID in Manorville. I think he would easily have been tied to them, and that is why they were hidden so well and why they were victims. Because of Craigslist he was able to get to girls he didn't know previously and get to know them without other girls knowing these ladies' ties to him. I believe this is also why he didn't make much of an effort to hide their identity and why his MO has evolved. I believe this case will be solved if we identify the Manorville woman and determine a tie between her and Jessica.

ETA I think LE has the same or similar theory and this is why they changed from multiple killers to one.

 

[Claudette]

How many sq miles is Long Island? Frankly I am surprised by the number of serial killers and serial killer victims on this island in the last few decades. I live in Chicago and the city plus Chicago proper has no active serial killers since Gacy that I know of. There's much violence, sure, but no groups of remains have been found or any suspected serial killers active.

 

[Clem Snide]

How many sq miles is Long Island? Frankly I am surprised by the number of serial killers and serial killer victims on this island in the last few decades. I live in Chicago and the city plus Chicago proper has no active serial killers since Gacy that I know of. There's much violence, sure, but no groups of remains have been found or any suspected serial killers active.

We make up for our lack of serial killers by our abundance of crooked politicians, though.

 

[Claudette]

We make up for our lack of serial killers by our abundance of crooked politicians, though.

Lol....too true.

In all seriousness though, let's just say LI and the Chicago area are similar in size. The pop density of Chicago is much more dense of course. Right now we have the current SK, Rifkin and a possible one dumping around Manorville (someone linked to this article earlier http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/03/24/long-islands-other-serial-killer/ in LI. All within about a 10-20 year span. That's scary. I vaguely recall maybe a 4th but I'm not confident enough on that. Let me know if there are others.

Is this not insane? I would love to know "professional" theories on this (and I know you're out there). Is it the chemical and biological environment (literally, is there something in the water)? Does it tie into the types of people that immigrated to this area and the DNA associated today (meaning, many Italians immigrated to New York while many Germans immigrated to Wisconsin as one example and certain things have been attributed to different races, such as some races being more susceptible to heart disease as one example)? Or is it that major metro areas on average have a number or SKs at work every 10 years or so and we just don't know about them?

 

[QuasiComposMentis]

If the police believe she drowned and have suggested it publically one would think they have darn good evidence supporting the theory. Although, their public waffling on a number of issues realted to Shannon Gilbert and the serial killer(s) hasn't helped their credibility.

All that aside, it's quite clear, or as clear as something can be given the limited information I (unlike the police) am operating on, that Shannon Gilbert was not in her right mind - for whatever reason. She ran away from the guy who was trying to help her. Someone in a rational state of mind does not run away from a person who is trying to and has helped you. Someone in a rational state of mind does not, as GC noted, and I'm paraphrasing his words, 'stare right through you as if you're not even there'.

Given 1) her behavior on the night in question and 2) her history of a) mental illness and b) drug use it is entirely reasonable to assume and highly probable that she was having some kind of break from reality. If she did have a break from reality her concern over someone trying to kill her becomes highly questionable, and the notion that she stumbled into a body of water, suffered hypothermia, and drowned seems entirely plausible.

If she was murdered one would wonder how she had close to half an hour to talk on the phone and why the killer murdered her after she was talking to the police for an extended period of time? If she was in some kind of delusional state it might also explain the police department's seeming indifference to her plight. If they thought they weren't talking to someone rational, and they believed she was in some kind of a delusional/hallucinatory state, they wouldn't be as prompt or thorough because they would have thought they were dealing with the ravings of someone in a distorted state. There is obviously a difference in urgency between someone a) having some kind of paranoid episode and b) someone in danger of being killed. Of couse that's abject speculation on my behalf.

If true, I realize it's a very mundane and ordinary explanation for why and how she died. Sometimes extraordinary events - the discovery of 10 bodies - are precipitated by very ordinary and random events - a young prostitute has a break with reality and drowns. Sometimes the universe, as seemingly extraordinary as it is, lacks order, lacks rationality, has no purpose, is devoid of meaning and possesses no qualities humans can identify with. What am I saying? Stuff happens. There doesn't have to be some ultimate reason or purpose for Shannon Gibert's disappearance being the event that made the police aware of at least one serial predator.

 

[Seaslug44]

Lol....too true.

In all seriousness though, let's just say LI and the Chicago area are similar in size. The pop density of Chicago is much more dense of course.

You would think but it's actually the other way around. it is said that if Long Island were a state it would statistically have the most population per square mile out of all of the states in the Country. The population of Chicago is less than 3 million. The population of Long Island is over 7 million. Long Island is more populated than the island country of Ireland. To put things into perspective, the population of Long Island is about the same as Israel or Sweden.

 

[Seaslug44]

Here are the photos;

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7422639&postcount=16"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7422639&postcount=16[/ame]

 

[Claudette]

You would think but it's actually the other way around. it is said that if Long Island were a state it would statistically have the most population per square mile out of all of the states in the Country. The population of Chicago is less than 3 million. The population of Long Island is over 7 million. Long Island is more populated than the island country of Ireland. To put things into perspective, the population of Long Island is about the same as Israel or Sweden.

Wow that's A LOT of people. I had no idea LI was that big. In terms of pop density though it looks like it is almost 13,000 peeps per sq mi in Chicago and 5400 for LI. From what I found it would be 13th in pop size if it were a state and first pop density. Not trying to disagree with you, just reporting what I found.

LI is 1401 sq mi, Chicago (the actual city, nothing more) is 234 sq mi. No wonder traffic is so bad, wow. It sounds like something isn't adding up but it's probably because it is 1am and I don't do math. lol