NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #12

[inspctrgadget]

Condolences to Mari. That Shannan likely passed away peacefully in a state of hypothermia is a godsend compared to the thought of what happened to those other women.

I think that everyone on this board that held prior beliefs that Oak Beach residents or other POIs in this case were responsible for these grisly murders needs to completely update their belief model.

We need to start accepting that what happened to Shannan was an accidental death and stop with further conspiracy theories.

At some point, further focus on current POIs will start to sound like 9-11 conspiracy theorists that believe our government was responsible for the towers coming down. I would prefer that Websleuths not be known as a conspiracy theory site for the Long Island Serial Killer.

I also think any further discussion related to CPH is unfair to him and his family. There are other reasonable explanations for the "rehab" call, most notably that Pak and/or Diaz made the call to (unsuccessfully) avoid any police investigation.

I'll wait until the official autopsy report, but as of now it seems Shannan was definitely not killed by JB, CPH, MP, AD, **, SY, the mob, or some sadistic cabal in Oak Beach.

We all need to re-think the case as if Shannan were never part of this case at all. What if the police just started finding bodies on Ocean Parkway? Would you believe that someone from Oak Beach was responsible? Of course not. This stretch of road is just an out-of-town desolate spot where it makes sense for a SK to dump a body.

So identifying the real SK just became inordinately more difficult.

I recently found an article mentioning that Suffolk PD questioned Carman Monaco Jr. in relation to the Manorville murders, which is now clearly linked to this case. His M.O. of making calls from untraceable phones in the city many times over many months fits the M.O. of calling Melissa Barthelemy's sister. Whoever called Melissa's sister we KNOW is the real SK.

Carman called himself "Sal from Manorville". He terrorized women at News 12 Long Island. He threatened to dismember these women and "dump their bodies with the rest of those *advertiser censored* in Manorville." In 2005, according the the NY Daily News, Suffolk County PD refused to rule him out in the Manorville investigation. In 2005, he received 6 months jail, inpatient counseling and probation that ended in 2009 or 2010.

I found that he works for Hub Trucks which shares a location with Neptune Feed in Calverton. Neptune sells horse feed in large burlap sacks (thanks Seaslug).

There are about 4-5 people at News 12 Long Island that could participate in a voice lineup by listening to the calls to Melissa's sister. Melissa's sister could do a voice lineup with the Carman's original calls to New 12. The DA could potentially convict based on a voice lineup if they make a positive ID.

I've reported this as a tip to Suffolk County PD.

I've sent this info to the NY Daily News.

I don't know what to do from here. I'd like to get the actual transcripts from his trial at Nassau County criminal court (he was investigated and arrested by Nassau PD, not Suffolk PD) to see if there are any other similarities. I'd like to somehow find out if his delivery route in 2003 took him past Hasley Manor Road in Manorville.

I'd like to know if his current employer (Hub Trucks) can put him in the city on the dates of those calls to Melissa's sister (it looks like Hub Trucks uses GPS).

I'd like to see any other print articles that are maybe on microfiche at the library related to Carman Monaco Jr.

I'd like to get Suffolk County PD to confirm if he's still a suspect in the Manorville murder(s), and if so is he now a suspect in the GB4? I've never heard any mention in the press recently about Carman or ANY other suspect in the Manorville slayings.

Help Websleuths!

 

[cluciano63]

What would LE gain by claiming that Shannon was NOT a victim of the SK or fould play, if indeed she was? I can't think of a reason why they would need to lie about it...JMO...

 

[minazoe]

well in my mind she is found 100 ft off of Ocean ParkWay...just like the others just maybe a little further in...

not on another parkway...

must be hard to get a hooker to visit you over there these days.

until I hear COD, I opt to believe SG... I opt to believe she was not dead from being crazy.

 

[Chanler]

I think that from the first, people wanted to think that Shannan had been murdered. When the first bodies were discovered in the killing fields, people wanted to make her one of the burlap murderer's victims, even though she was missing from his sequence.

Shannan's behavior that night is consistent with her bipolar and drug history, which her good family and friends have acknowledged. This poor woman, who could have been so much more, died as tragically as if a serial killer monster had brought her down. In a sense, it had.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Dormer said the location of the skeleton suggests that Gilbert may have been trying to flee across the wetland to a causeway. He suggested that she had become hopelessly entangled in the brush, which he called a "tough, desolate, tangled mess."

"The terrain would have made it impossible," for her to get through to the road," Dormer said. "Our people who were in there over the last few days had to cut through that brush and bramble area, before she was located."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/13/long-island-remains-found-shannan-gilbert

 

[Theforeigner]

Does anyone have a map of where Shannans pocketbook, jeans, shoes, phone, and lipgloss was found, and I mean a map that is 100% right?

I ask because it has been posted maps on this forum showing that items were found right behind (to the right) of the house at address 55 Larboard.
But also maps showing that the items were found behind the Dr H.'s house on 47 Larboard.

 

[minazoe]

Shannan's body will tell us.

poor Shannan, brave girl, you have to be brave to live her life...these girls are ALONE...like none of us can imagine.

 

[crimesnooper]

What am I missing? Why do they seem to feel that this was accidental if her jeans were found away from her body. I can understand dropping your purse and still keep running...but your jeans? This makes no sense.

 

[nugzter]

They seem real confident that it is SG. They must have seen the metal plate or another piece of evidence that would lead them to that conclusion. I can't wait for the ME report. Now "this" is gonna get intresting. I wonder how long it will take the ME to release a COD. And if they are gonna release their own timeline of the event that lead to the death of SG. I can't wait until all the truth comes out.
BTW good work to all yall here on WS. It shows me there are some really great people on here trying to make a diffrence. Proud to be a fellow SWer.....rock on!!!

 

[Clone101]

They seem real confident that it is SG. They must have seen the metal plate or another piece of evidence that would lead them to that conclusion. I can't wait for the ME report. Now "this" is gonna get intresting. I wonder how long it will take the ME to release a COD. And if they are gonna release their own timeline of the event that lead to the death of SG. I can't wait until all the truth comes out.
BTW good work to all yall here on WS. It shows me there are some really great people on here trying to make a diffrence. Proud to be a fellow SWer.....rock on!!!

Probably photo and remove the body today.. M.E's office tonight, body check tomorrow.. Maybe by weeks end will know..
Maybe not COD but id of remains, if shannans, jaw will tell all

 

[minazoe]

What am I missing? Why do they seem to feel that this was accidental if her jeans were found away from her body. I can understand dropping your purse and still keep running...but your jeans? This makes no sense.

well they are trying to make a case for her becoming Hypothermic , wet and cold, stripping off her clothing and running into what would basically be a giant brillo pad of snarling brambles and mud.

come on .. a quarter mile from a to b????

ok...she had to be tripping if she did this.

who is believing this? I don't believe it yet...they are going to have to show me how. It's completely and utterly irrational.

 

[snapdragon2]

What would LE gain by claiming that Shannon was NOT a victim of the SK or fould play, if indeed she was? I can't think of a reason why they would need to lie about it...JMO...

For one thing, they didn't take her disappearance seriously, or as seriously as they probably would have if she hadn't been an escort, IMO. They didn't even locate the 911 call for 3 months (Sherre's radio interview), they didn't find her earring outside JB's house, they "lost" her jacket, etc. etc. I believe they initially told the family to file a missing person's report in New Jersey, too. Two women died after Shannan went missing. I don't know that they could have prevented that, but it doesn't look good, does it. I could think of a few more reasons it would be more convenient for them to believe that she essentially caused her own death.

 

[Sillybilly]

... There are other reasonable explanations for the "rehab" call, most notably that Pak and/or Diaz made the call to (unsuccessfully) avoid any police investigation ...

How/why do you disregard that Mari stated on the LISK site that the first phone call came from Hackett's telephone number?

 

[Clone101]

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_stress_reaction"]Acute stress reaction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

By definition, acute stress disorder is the result of a traumatic event in which the person experiences or witnesses an event that causes the victim/witness to experience extreme, disturbing or unexpected fear, stress or pain, and that involves or threatens serious injury, perceived serious injury or death to themselves or someone else. Acute stress reaction is a variation of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and is the mind's and body's response to feelings (both perceived and real) of intense helplessness.

 

[Theforeigner]

well they are trying to make a case for her becoming Hypothermic , wet and cold, stripping off her clothing and running into what would basically be a giant brillo pad of snarling brambles and mud.

come on .. a quarter mile from a to b????

ok...she had to be tripping if she did this.

who is believing this? I don't believe it yet...they are going to have to show me how. It's completely and utterly irrational.

RIGHT!!!

LE is saying that they could not search the area back in May 2010 because the area was all full of water.

Shannan Gilbert could not swim and was dead scared of water.

And now they are claiming that she made her way through 1/4 mile of water before she drowned???!!!

ALSO, if I understod it right, Dormer said that LE belived SG was trying to make it over to the Oak beach gate /parking lot because there were lights, BUT the location where the remains were found was in the totaly opposite direction AWAY from the OB gate.

The LE theories are just TOTALY impossible IMHO.

 

[Clone101]

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_shock_response"]Cold shock response - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Cold shock response

Myth of sudden hypothermia

In humans, cold shock response is perhaps the most common cause of death from immersion in very cold water, such as by falling through thin ice. The cold water can cause heart attack (as cold blood from the extremities reaches the heart) and inhalation of water (and thus drowning) from hyperventilation. Some people, due to body type or mental conditioning, are much better able to survive swimming in very cold water.

Hypothermia from exposure to cold water is not as sudden as is often believed. A person who survives the initial minute of trauma (after falling into icy water), can survive for at least thirty minutes[1] provided they don't drown. However, the ability to perform useful work (for example to save oneself) declines substantially after 10 minutes (as the body protectively cuts off blood flow to "non-essential" muscles).

 

[the quiet girl]

This is what I could pull off of a screen shot from google maps.
not much as far as seeing close-up thou

 

[the quiet girl]

I was a wilderness first responder up in till 7 years ago and my belief is that yes hypothermia surely could be a possibility.
Now take that with a grain of salt as I have not solicited anything to be known as that by the powers that be here.

edit to add:
As a young person I was afraid of the water (funny I grew up on LI Beaches), nothing would stop me from saving my life if I thought the things that Shannan did, even water.
She may not have thought the water was even there in the grass land area.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Something is NOT right here. Not the most intellectual argument, I know, but this whole thing just doesn't add up for me.

 

[Sillybilly]

from:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/13/us-serialkiller-longisland-idUSTRE7BB28T20111213

The skeletal remains were found in an area so dense and waterlogged that officers with search dogs could not enter it previously, he said. The area was drained by investigators who also cut down the vegetation as part of the search, he said.

"It's very easy to miss the skeletal remains in that area," Dormer said.

"It's a very, very tough, tangled desolate mess. There's no way Shannan Gilbert could have gotten through that brush to make it to the parkway," he said.

<bbm>

Huh?

Given that SG was found such a short distance from OP, how do they posit she got almost through the entire marsh, almost out the other side to the parkway in May when the marsh was more impenetrable than it is now, and when seasoned searchers/investigators couldn't do so before?

 

[minazoe]

lol tilda...