carbuff
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I agree. I think we can assume that we have not been told the complete story, and won't until there's a trial. They have an investigation to conduct.
NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #5
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I agree. I think we can assume that we have not been told the complete story, and won't until there's a trial. They have an investigation to conduct.
carbuff
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They said he's not a suspect. How much clearer would you like them to be?
Really interesting ideas! I am also of the belief that the SK called posing as the doc. One thing though, there would probably be no need for him to call the numbers in Shannan's phone until he got her mother. I'm sure she was in Shannan's phone as "mom."
On that note, as for Melissa's sister getting calls, I'm willing to bet there were texts convos between Melissa and her sister in Melissa's phone (me and my sisters text constantly) and I'll bet one of them said something like "I'll ask mom..." or "tell mom..." so he easily could have figured out that they were sisters that way.
More questions cont....
1. Who was a actually the last person to see her alive? Coletti, the woman neighbor, PH or someone else?
2. The drifter has been mentioned just briefly by the media, because police have yet to locate him, or do they dismiss him totally?
3. SG was hiding behind a boat, then struggled with a person and yelled at him. What property was this on? WhT time?
4. If PH didn't make that call, who did and from where and what phone and what time of day?
5. Did the call to the mother in a weak attempt to cover up, empower him later to call Melissa's sister? Or was it a need to interject himself in their lives?
6. Is the driver, if not involved, see anything more than what he told police?
7. The driver has stated SG was acting irrational and eventually he left an said she would e able to make her way back to Jersey. Is that the truth or did he see something else. If he told the truth, it is likely at that point she wouldn't have been in too much danger.
Please feel to answer, add, or correct any mistakes I may have made
Thanks
1. Who was a actually the last person to see her alive? Coletti, the woman neighbor, PH or someone else?
2. The drifter has been mentioned just briefly by the media, because police have yet to locate him, or do they dismiss him totally?
3. SG was hiding behind a boat, then struggled with a person and yelled at him. What property was this on? WhT time?
4. If PH didn't make that call, who did and from where and what phone and what time of day?
5. Did the call to the mother in a weak attempt to cover up, empower him later to call Melissa's sister? Or was it a need to interject himself in their lives?
6. Is the driver, if not involved, see anything more than what he told police?
7. The driver has stated SG was acting irrational and eventually he left an said she would e able to make her way back to Jersey. Is that the truth or did he see something else. If he told the truth, it is likely at that point she wouldn't have been in too much danger.
Please feel to answer, add, or correct any mistakes I may have made
Thanks
All,
I would be remiss if I did not let all the fine folks here know about such an amazing Website that has just come online. This website links (link at the bottom) to a once in a lifetime database of all the unsolved and solved murders in the U.S.? The basic premise is to play Amateur detective, by manipulating the available options, choosing any and all possible counties and cities within the US, all in an effort to identify patterns. Patterns of killings within a certain area, by a certain weapon, to a specific gender. The goal is to discover potential patterns and submit your research for followup. I personally know first hand how awesome this database is, as I have in fact, discovered a previously unknown SK out of the Rochester area using this website DB. I am currently awaiting a news article to be published about it and was just told today that my discovery has turned even more interesting. Insane right. Well whatever, my life's resume has been updated to reflect, "caught Serial Killer". And honestly, this is why everyone of us is here right now. To aid or actual provide information that leads to the capture of an offender. With a SK def being the most prized of the bunch. The guy I found was named Johnny White and he liked to strangle middle aged, African American prostitutes in Rochester. This involved 8 cases. With the new information I received today, I wonder if that number has gone up. The most mind blowing part of this was, that it wasn't Arthur Shawcross, which meant there were two of them, killing prostitutes, in the same city, at the same time and in and around, the same street corners. That was mind blowing because I def thought they were going to be attributed to Shawcross.
In finishing, you cannot possibly consider yourself a complete amateur detective without this tool in your belt!! And if any of you encounter troubles finding, using or understanding this DB website, please feel free to ask me any questions. I would be absolutely thrilled to help. Thats how important this website is!!
MODS!!! Any way we can get this permanently pinned somewhere?? You have no idea how fantastically, fantastic this site is!!!
Here's the link: http://www.scrippsnews.com/projects/serial-killers/find-serial-killers
I would be remiss if I did not let all the fine folks here know about such an amazing Website that has just come online. This website links (link at the bottom) to a once in a lifetime database of all the unsolved and solved murders in the U.S.? The basic premise is to play Amateur detective, by manipulating the available options, choosing any and all possible counties and cities within the US, all in an effort to identify patterns. Patterns of killings within a certain area, by a certain weapon, to a specific gender. The goal is to discover potential patterns and submit your research for followup. I personally know first hand how awesome this database is, as I have in fact, discovered a previously unknown SK out of the Rochester area using this website DB. I am currently awaiting a news article to be published about it and was just told today that my discovery has turned even more interesting. Insane right. Well whatever, my life's resume has been updated to reflect, "caught Serial Killer". And honestly, this is why everyone of us is here right now. To aid or actual provide information that leads to the capture of an offender. With a SK def being the most prized of the bunch. The guy I found was named Johnny White and he liked to strangle middle aged, African American prostitutes in Rochester. This involved 8 cases. With the new information I received today, I wonder if that number has gone up. The most mind blowing part of this was, that it wasn't Arthur Shawcross, which meant there were two of them, killing prostitutes, in the same city, at the same time and in and around, the same street corners. That was mind blowing because I def thought they were going to be attributed to Shawcross.
In finishing, you cannot possibly consider yourself a complete amateur detective without this tool in your belt!! And if any of you encounter troubles finding, using or understanding this DB website, please feel free to ask me any questions. I would be absolutely thrilled to help. Thats how important this website is!!
MODS!!! Any way we can get this permanently pinned somewhere?? You have no idea how fantastically, fantastic this site is!!!
Here's the link: http://www.scrippsnews.com/projects/serial-killers/find-serial-killers
MsFacetious
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I'm not sure why they think any of these might be Joel's, unless they don't believe he has told them about all of his victims? The ones that are still missing are all reportedly in the water.
Long Island serial killer Joel Rifkin says he's not impressed by the fiendish handiwork of a murderer who dumped the bodies of four women near Oak Beach.
"I dumped them hundreds of miles apart," Rifkin proudly told the Daily News Wednesday in a 70-minute interview at the upstate prison where he will spend the rest of his life.
His victims were scattered in rivers and wooded areas from the east end of Long Island to upstate. Three were never found.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-12-16/news/27084476_1_serial-killer-joel-rifkin-hookers
Rifkins missing victims...
He recalls killing one hooker named "Susie" in March of 1989 putting her into garbage bags and a paint can. Rifkin drove the body parts across the state line to New Jersey, dropping the head and legs in the woods near Hopewell. (Quickly found by a golfer.) Doubling back from there, he returned to Manhattan, pitching the arms and torso into the East River.
Another sometime in 1990, the victim was prostitute Julie Blackbird. Driving into Manhattan, he consigned Blackbirds head and torso to the East River, then dropped her weighted arms and legs into a Brooklyn barge canal. The remains were never found.
Rifkin could not recall the name of "number six," murdered a few days shy of Christmas 1991. He drove to a recycling plant in Westbury, where he had once worked part-time, and helped himself to a 55-gallon oil drum. There was ample room for Jane Doe in the barrel, safely hidden for their ride to the South Bronx, where Rifkin found a district rife with junkyards and rolled her into the East River.
The 14 other victims
31-year-old Barbara Jacobs. Rifkin wrapped Jacobs in plastic, folded her into a cardboard box and drove to the Hudson River, dropping her into the water near a cement plant.
Mary Ellen DeLuca, age twenty- two. From the motel, he drove upstate to Orange County and left DeLuca's body at a rest stop outside Cornwall, near West Point.
Another 31-year-old victim, Korean hooker Yun Lee. Rifkin wedged Lee into the same trunk he'd used for Mary DeLuca and dropped her in the Harlem River.
Lorraine Orvieto, age twenty-eight. Back at the landscaping lot, Rifkin stuffed her into an oil drum, drove her body to Brooklyn and dropped it into Coney Island Creek.
Maryann Holloman, age 39. He followed the same disposal procedure as with Orvieto: back to Long Island, the oil drum and Coney Island Creek.
The oil drum was a new kink with Rifkin, used at least four times by his count. A Jane Doe victim, thus entombed, was dredged from Newtown Creek, in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, on May 13, 1992.
With 25-year-old Iris Sanchez, strangled in May 1992, The site he chose was an illegal dump, 200 feet off Rockaway Boulevard, within sight of JFK International Airport. Rifkin wedged the body underneath a rotting mattress, first relieving Sanchez of her watch and other jewelry.
On May 25, 1992, he strangled crack addict Anna Lopez, dumping her corpse in some woods off Interstate 84, in Brewster, New York.
Violet ONeill, a 21-year-old prostitute. Rifkin consigned her remains to the waters surrounding Manhattan. Her torso surfaced in the Hudson River, wrapped in black plastic, while her arms and legs were found in a discarded suitcase.
Mary Catherine Williams, 31. After a struggle to get the car started and moving, Rifkin drove Williams to Yorktown, a Westchester suburb, where she was found on December 21, 1992.
Jenny Soto, 23 was the fighter, breaking all 10 fingernails as she clawed Rifkins face and neck. He rolled Soto into the Harlem River, near the spot where Yun Lee had been found 14 months earlier.
Three months later, he killed Leah Evens, 28. He drove Evens to the far eastern end of Long Island and buried her in the woods, the only one of his victims who rated a shallow grave.
The next to die, Lauren Marquez, was a 28-year-old addict and prostitute, Rifkin dumped her body in the Suffolk County pine barrens, where she lay undiscovered until his arrest.
Rifkins last victim, Tiffany Bresciani, was another southern girl. He was on his way to dump the corpse near Melvilles Republic Airport, some 15 miles north of his house, when Troopers Ruane and Spaargaren noted his lack of a rear license plate.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/rifkin/7.html
Long Island serial killer Joel Rifkin says he's not impressed by the fiendish handiwork of a murderer who dumped the bodies of four women near Oak Beach.
"I dumped them hundreds of miles apart," Rifkin proudly told the Daily News Wednesday in a 70-minute interview at the upstate prison where he will spend the rest of his life.
His victims were scattered in rivers and wooded areas from the east end of Long Island to upstate. Three were never found.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-12-16/news/27084476_1_serial-killer-joel-rifkin-hookers
Rifkins missing victims...
He recalls killing one hooker named "Susie" in March of 1989 putting her into garbage bags and a paint can. Rifkin drove the body parts across the state line to New Jersey, dropping the head and legs in the woods near Hopewell. (Quickly found by a golfer.) Doubling back from there, he returned to Manhattan, pitching the arms and torso into the East River.
Another sometime in 1990, the victim was prostitute Julie Blackbird. Driving into Manhattan, he consigned Blackbirds head and torso to the East River, then dropped her weighted arms and legs into a Brooklyn barge canal. The remains were never found.
Rifkin could not recall the name of "number six," murdered a few days shy of Christmas 1991. He drove to a recycling plant in Westbury, where he had once worked part-time, and helped himself to a 55-gallon oil drum. There was ample room for Jane Doe in the barrel, safely hidden for their ride to the South Bronx, where Rifkin found a district rife with junkyards and rolled her into the East River.
The 14 other victims
31-year-old Barbara Jacobs. Rifkin wrapped Jacobs in plastic, folded her into a cardboard box and drove to the Hudson River, dropping her into the water near a cement plant.
Mary Ellen DeLuca, age twenty- two. From the motel, he drove upstate to Orange County and left DeLuca's body at a rest stop outside Cornwall, near West Point.
Another 31-year-old victim, Korean hooker Yun Lee. Rifkin wedged Lee into the same trunk he'd used for Mary DeLuca and dropped her in the Harlem River.
Lorraine Orvieto, age twenty-eight. Back at the landscaping lot, Rifkin stuffed her into an oil drum, drove her body to Brooklyn and dropped it into Coney Island Creek.
Maryann Holloman, age 39. He followed the same disposal procedure as with Orvieto: back to Long Island, the oil drum and Coney Island Creek.
The oil drum was a new kink with Rifkin, used at least four times by his count. A Jane Doe victim, thus entombed, was dredged from Newtown Creek, in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, on May 13, 1992.
With 25-year-old Iris Sanchez, strangled in May 1992, The site he chose was an illegal dump, 200 feet off Rockaway Boulevard, within sight of JFK International Airport. Rifkin wedged the body underneath a rotting mattress, first relieving Sanchez of her watch and other jewelry.
On May 25, 1992, he strangled crack addict Anna Lopez, dumping her corpse in some woods off Interstate 84, in Brewster, New York.
Violet ONeill, a 21-year-old prostitute. Rifkin consigned her remains to the waters surrounding Manhattan. Her torso surfaced in the Hudson River, wrapped in black plastic, while her arms and legs were found in a discarded suitcase.
Mary Catherine Williams, 31. After a struggle to get the car started and moving, Rifkin drove Williams to Yorktown, a Westchester suburb, where she was found on December 21, 1992.
Jenny Soto, 23 was the fighter, breaking all 10 fingernails as she clawed Rifkins face and neck. He rolled Soto into the Harlem River, near the spot where Yun Lee had been found 14 months earlier.
Three months later, he killed Leah Evens, 28. He drove Evens to the far eastern end of Long Island and buried her in the woods, the only one of his victims who rated a shallow grave.
The next to die, Lauren Marquez, was a 28-year-old addict and prostitute, Rifkin dumped her body in the Suffolk County pine barrens, where she lay undiscovered until his arrest.
Rifkins last victim, Tiffany Bresciani, was another southern girl. He was on his way to dump the corpse near Melvilles Republic Airport, some 15 miles north of his house, when Troopers Ruane and Spaargaren noted his lack of a rear license plate.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/rifkin/7.html
Columbo;
The "Shanon " you mentioned earlier seems to want to get some info out there. You wanna' post to that link you had that she can call the FBI or write anonymously, since they are involved now? She needs to include the city, state, and case name. Just a thought, that post is begging for someone to respond.
The "Shanon " you mentioned earlier seems to want to get some info out there. You wanna' post to that link you had that she can call the FBI or write anonymously, since they are involved now? She needs to include the city, state, and case name. Just a thought, that post is begging for someone to respond.
I have many of the same questions as you but there is ONE I can answer. #5... Melissa disappeared a year before Shannan and the calls were made in 2009 so the calls to Melissa's sister were long before any of this SG incident occurred.
I don't believe it's the doctor or JB. I think it's someone from outside Oak Beach. I just don't think a SK would keep (yes, KEEP, as opposed to LEAVE) the bodies so close to home. We don't know much about the SK but we do know that he is reasonably careful, meticulous, and orderly. I don't think that's the kind of person who would keep the bodies nearby. He'd put some distance between so he could hide himself even further.
If the doc were the SK, I don't think we'd have found the burlap-wrapped bodies. They'd be at the bottom of the sound (shades of Dexter.) He has a boat, after all.
I think the SK is someone from nearby but not too close. Close enough to know the area (perhaps a former resident?) but not so close that cops would come knocking on his door. Avoids attention.
If they say the call is debunked, what does that mean? It never happened? If that's the case, there's really nothing to tie the doctor to Shannan.
So where do I think Shannan is? Honestly, I don't think she was the victim of the/a serial killer. I think she was drunk/high and ended up in the ocean. Perhaps she was smoking crack or meth, got paranoid, believed people were after her, and took off into the water, thinking they wouldn't follow her. I have a beach house, I was in my 20s once, and I ended up in the ocean drunk late at night PLENTY, mostly goofing off ... important part is in that state of mind I never considered that it might be a bad idea.
So her disappearance did bring to light the other killers: 1. the burlap guy and 2. whoever else has been dumping bodies there, whether it's Rifkin, or single acts of violence. Clearly it is a great place to hide a body, if so many corpses have avoided detection there for so many years.
But poor Shannan, rest in peace, I just don't think she was murdered; at least not by any of the men who have been mentioned in connection with the case.
BTW regarding the strange behavior of the driver: I'm assuming he had drugs/unlicensed gun/some other illicit stuff and didn't want to talk to the police or anyone else for fear of being stopped/detained. Or, along those lines, he may have been covering from Shannan (say, if he knew she had coke in her purse.) Probably he didn't want to get involved with the law, since her very presence there (on a prostitution call) was against the law. And as no one knew at that time about the bodies, there was no reason to think there would be any extraordinary danger. I'm guessing he just thought she was high and behaving weirdly because of that.
If the doc were the SK, I don't think we'd have found the burlap-wrapped bodies. They'd be at the bottom of the sound (shades of Dexter.) He has a boat, after all.
I think the SK is someone from nearby but not too close. Close enough to know the area (perhaps a former resident?) but not so close that cops would come knocking on his door. Avoids attention.
If they say the call is debunked, what does that mean? It never happened? If that's the case, there's really nothing to tie the doctor to Shannan.
So where do I think Shannan is? Honestly, I don't think she was the victim of the/a serial killer. I think she was drunk/high and ended up in the ocean. Perhaps she was smoking crack or meth, got paranoid, believed people were after her, and took off into the water, thinking they wouldn't follow her. I have a beach house, I was in my 20s once, and I ended up in the ocean drunk late at night PLENTY, mostly goofing off ... important part is in that state of mind I never considered that it might be a bad idea.
So her disappearance did bring to light the other killers: 1. the burlap guy and 2. whoever else has been dumping bodies there, whether it's Rifkin, or single acts of violence. Clearly it is a great place to hide a body, if so many corpses have avoided detection there for so many years.
But poor Shannan, rest in peace, I just don't think she was murdered; at least not by any of the men who have been mentioned in connection with the case.
BTW regarding the strange behavior of the driver: I'm assuming he had drugs/unlicensed gun/some other illicit stuff and didn't want to talk to the police or anyone else for fear of being stopped/detained. Or, along those lines, he may have been covering from Shannan (say, if he knew she had coke in her purse.) Probably he didn't want to get involved with the law, since her very presence there (on a prostitution call) was against the law. And as no one knew at that time about the bodies, there was no reason to think there would be any extraordinary danger. I'm guessing he just thought she was high and behaving weirdly because of that.
RSS:
MsFacetious;
The article saying that 2 could be Rifkin's was just an anonymous source. As was heard today on the press conference, no one knows anything about the age of the remains, and how long they had been there, until the experts complete the reports, and the unexperienced person looking at something is not a reliable source.
As far as Rifkin, yeah, they think there are more. He only told about 17 and was "fuzzy" on memory. It seems most of the prolific serial killers keep a few to themselves for their need to feel superior, to control, and to keep some from public knowledge - for example- children. I'm sure there are other reasons too.
chemcopout
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http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04...ch-for-bodies-off-l-i-in-serial-killer-probe/
my apologies if this link was posted before. however if you scroll down the article a video will load.
the video is to the left of "video news"
hackett is in the video, if you watch the video you will notice that dr hackett has a problem walking and gets very out of breath. physically i don't think he could chase these girls or catch them due to his physical condition.
into the video (which starts out mentioning divers) go into the video until 1:06 into the video they show hackett walking.
if hackett was the sk, it would make no sense for him to call the family and give himself away. now he's a local there and would know about shannan going missing that night. if he saw her early morning, likely looking sick and distressed, now even in lower light, your having the morning light come into play. if she was in a state where even her body posture looked like she was in distress i could understand that comment.
what i don't understand is why he would say shannan was at his house when she wasn't; he just merely saw her.
now it's possible someone else called claiming to be him, this person would be local and want to divert attention away from his sk self.
as for rifkin and his 3 missing victims; rifkin buried them in 3's.
so if they are rifkin's i'd think they'd find 3 in a close area.
my apologies if this link was posted before. however if you scroll down the article a video will load.
the video is to the left of "video news"
hackett is in the video, if you watch the video you will notice that dr hackett has a problem walking and gets very out of breath. physically i don't think he could chase these girls or catch them due to his physical condition.
into the video (which starts out mentioning divers) go into the video until 1:06 into the video they show hackett walking.
if hackett was the sk, it would make no sense for him to call the family and give himself away. now he's a local there and would know about shannan going missing that night. if he saw her early morning, likely looking sick and distressed, now even in lower light, your having the morning light come into play. if she was in a state where even her body posture looked like she was in distress i could understand that comment.
what i don't understand is why he would say shannan was at his house when she wasn't; he just merely saw her.
now it's possible someone else called claiming to be him, this person would be local and want to divert attention away from his sk self.
as for rifkin and his 3 missing victims; rifkin buried them in 3's.
so if they are rifkin's i'd think they'd find 3 in a close area.
evelyn24
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Le never ever uses the word "suspect" anymore until someone is basically charged with the crime.
stillwatersc
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:Welcome1:
chemcopout
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a lot of serial killers have kept bodies of their victims in their homes and yards. it just depends on the individual sk and their preferences
considering how many have kept them in their own homes and yards, the sk being local is no stretch, imo.
also the killer(s) is extremely comfortable using that area as a dumping grounds. that shows he is very comfortable with that area and knows it well. who would know it better than a local?
tfrohning
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this is what really get me! All theses people has seen Shannan running scare :banghead: 911 should been getting all kind calls:banghead:
I happen to be be very familiar with these beaches if you have any questions. (Im Not very familiar with the communities, themselves though.)
Soo,
~Im curious why they are searching the water baring areas of the beach. Hmm?
Quick FYI- In this beach area you are allowed to drive a vehicle ON the beach but you must have a permit. You usually get a permit because you have a residence there or on Fire Island OR you are a coastal (hobby) fisherman. The police patrol the beaches in SUV's all year round. In summer, durring the day hours, they use 3wheeler trikes.
{*Just thinking~could this be a connection to the thought that the SK is a PO? A police patrollman with access to the beaches, perhaps?}
Soo,
~Im curious why they are searching the water baring areas of the beach. Hmm?
Quick FYI- In this beach area you are allowed to drive a vehicle ON the beach but you must have a permit. You usually get a permit because you have a residence there or on Fire Island OR you are a coastal (hobby) fisherman. The police patrol the beaches in SUV's all year round. In summer, durring the day hours, they use 3wheeler trikes.
{*Just thinking~could this be a connection to the thought that the SK is a PO? A police patrollman with access to the beaches, perhaps?}
chemcopout
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some of the locals likely know more than le will let them say. it would jeopardize the case. it also could be why the drivers name wasnt released is if he's a possible witness.
same with that 911 call, shannan names the killer who was after her
with the fbi on the case i feel better. its likely they've had a suspect they are watching for awhile now and just keeping those cards tight to their chest.
if the suspect has money, he'll get a good lawyer so they need as much as they can get for a solid case.
same with that 911 call, shannan names the killer who was after her
with the fbi on the case i feel better. its likely they've had a suspect they are watching for awhile now and just keeping those cards tight to their chest.
if the suspect has money, he'll get a good lawyer so they need as much as they can get for a solid case.
Dragonfire7783
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svpernin
Very true about the cell and Text
Also thank you SK Hunter for the great link.
Also adding something triggered this UnSub and I'd suspect based on the typical profile of a SK he had a daughter who was very rebellious.Beyond a normal teen be cause he is such a control freak.This daughter ran away and got caught up in the Escort/Prostitution business.Maybe even dieing as a result.Add this to the fact his own Mom I'd bet was a single mother very possible an Escort/Prostitute her self or very abuse for any number of reasons including religious.
I'd look at records for the area for the last 10 years to see if any one there or from the area lost a daughter that way or ran away and is missing.Then cross reference it with mother's backgrounds to see if any father were the product of single mothers that were prostitutes and or abusive for any number of reasons including religious.
Very true about the cell and Text
Also thank you SK Hunter for the great link.
Also adding something triggered this UnSub and I'd suspect based on the typical profile of a SK he had a daughter who was very rebellious.Beyond a normal teen be cause he is such a control freak.This daughter ran away and got caught up in the Escort/Prostitution business.Maybe even dieing as a result.Add this to the fact his own Mom I'd bet was a single mother very possible an Escort/Prostitute her self or very abuse for any number of reasons including religious.
I'd look at records for the area for the last 10 years to see if any one there or from the area lost a daughter that way or ran away and is missing.Then cross reference it with mother's backgrounds to see if any father were the product of single mothers that were prostitutes and or abusive for any number of reasons including religious.
evelyn24
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I don't think the doctor is responsible for SG's disappearance or the SK.
Btw, I had no idea Rifkin dumped in threes, because in that documentary I posted earlier he disposed of the victims all over and even in the water one at a time.
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