NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #6

[carbuff]

Something that strikes me as odd...1 body in 2007, 1 body in 2009, 2 bodies (that we know of) in 2010. If his first murder was in 2007, why the 2 year gap until his next victim? Also, 1 body a year? That's a serial killer who sure has a heck of alot of self control, isn't it?

I'd be willing to bet the farm, he has other dumping grounds somewhere on LI. State park, Fire Island, somewhere. I'm just not seeing only 4 bodies in 4 years. Unless he's just a john who killed these 4 because they pissed him off.

I don't know...random thoughts.

I tend to agree that there are others that haven't been found -- but serial killers vary wildly in the frequency of victims. The Grim Sleeper got his nickname because of an apparent 13-year hiatus; some of the Sleeper's profilers said it's not uncommon for sk's to stop killing when circumstances change, such as during a happy marriage or taking a job outside the comfort zone.

This is part of why I think this killer is a summer/weekend person. If he's killing in between times, I think those bodies are elsewhere. And yes, I don't think we can rule out that these are multiple murders rather than serial killings. Somebody killing for business reasons, basically.

I think if there is another area on Long Island, it's either farther east along the shore, or north along the LIE or another major route.

 

[dcgrumpy]

I have a question. I've seen a few posts about him making a call from Massapequa. Did he call the sister from there or was it just the call to her voicemail. How do we know that he called her voicemail and it wasn't her checking her voicemail?

 

[carbuff]

Serial Killing is a very personal, "hands on" endeavour.
Serial Killers do not "delegate" their deeds to other people.
Serial Killers get the thrill of killing by their own hand.
Serial Killers don't have associates. (unless they team up with another SK)

All evidence, including a LE arrest and her own family testimony confirms that SG was indeed working as an independent, <modsnip>.

Not all multiple murderers are serial killers.

 

[Lera213]

I know who did it...BO did it....LOL I'm just joking.

 

[internetgirl101]

WM, I think the last call to MB's sister was made Aug 26, 2009 and ALC went missing Sept. 2010

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Why Thank you Internetgirl101. I think I must not have had enough java when I posted

I can scratch that off my timeline lol!

wm

 

[Aleph]

Kind of OT, but I am reading a book about the life of Peter Sutcliffe, aka Yorkshire Strangler, and his very first encounter with a prostitute turned out to be one where she pulled a scam, taking a 10 pound note from him and telling him to stop at a certain cafe to make change for him, and then of course, she never came back out. He was soon chased off by some thugs in on the scam. This enraged him so that he began haunting the area and beating various working girls with a rock inside a sock. And then of course, progressed to murder.

Anyway, I read that and thought about the alleged scams that at least one of the women in this case may have perpetrated against a customer and how it can enrage the wrong guy.

Over 20 bucks? Please. Anyone willing to kill over 20 dollars wanted to do it in the first place. To suggest that his murders had anything to do with what the women did sounds like victim-blaming to me.

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

Hospitals get sued all the time. Is this a Patient suing the Dr or Hospital or Both?

 

[truthspider]

what I see is action #2, plaintiff is LB Med center and the defendant is our CPH DO. possibly the patient took the suit to the medical center, and the medical center is trying to take the case to CPH.

I think employment history and malpractice (or other criminal activity) at the work place is relevant to a POI.

It also looks like the victim here is an infant.

 

[carbuff]

A pattern is starting to appear. According to the Irish Independent, MBB went into NYC in July 9th 2007 (a Monday) with 2 friends to keep some "dates" they had set up and make some money (craigslist?). That night, she called one of her friends, from the Port Authority Bus Terminal in midtown Manhattan, and said she had been robbed and wanted to go home. She was never seen again. Perhaps she had one more "date" scheduled or maybe she was able to arrange a "last minute date" through some sort of "service". She may have just tried her hand at street hooking, but that seems unlikely.

In Aug, 2009 MB was last seen sitting on a curb in front of her Apt in the Bronx. She may have been seen walking away from her apt a little later. She was never heard from again but calls were made from her phone in Massapequa and in Mid-Town Manhattan.

In May 2010, MW went with her Pimp Akeem Cruz to the Holiday Inn Express in Hauppauge by bus. They both left early in the evening them MW returned alone. She left again at 1:30 AM walking towards an "all night” business near the motel. She was never seen again.

In Sept 2010, ALC had a date worth $1500. She was to be picked up at her West Babylon home but no one saw her get into any car. She was never seen again. All four turned up along a NY parkway in Gilgo beach.

Massapequa and Hauppauge are each about 8 miles from West Babylon in opposite directions. Gilgo beach would be about a 10 mile drive. Mid-town Manhattan is 39 miles from W. Babylon and the Bronx is about 30.

We know the Perp had "ties" to both Mid-town and Massapequa in the summer of 2009. People commute via the Long Island Rail from well past W Babylon to Mid-town but people who live near Mid-town would rarely work or even venture that far out into Long Island. It is very probable that he lived near Massapequa when he made the call.

It seems like quite a long drive to mid-town to pick up a "date" but we know that this guy appears to have driven from Long Island to the Bronx to pick up MB; perhaps he went to Mid-town to pick up MBB. Late at night, 1 1/2 hours.

It is probable that he planned to kill ALC. As he apparels to have arranged to pick up MW away from the motel he was staying at, I believe he planned to kill her and did not want his vehicle to be picked up by the motel security CAM. There is a possibility that MB was waiting in front of her home when she was called and instructed to walk to a different meeting point. This again appears to be a ploy to avoid being seen by any of MB's neighbors.

It is possible that he moved from NYC after 2007 or he had moved to LI earlier but he was more comfortable securing his "women" from the city. The two women he secured in the area of LI he probably now lives were killed quite recently and just a few month apart. Has he become more brazen now that he knows he can find victims close to home or has he just become more wreckless?

That's an excellent summary, but the dates don't match what I have on the master list. I have July 10, 2009 as the date Barthelmy was last seen, not August, and Sunday, June 6, 2010, for Megan Waterman, not May.

The other thing that I notice is that, if this is correct -- I thought Amber was seen getting into the car? -- not one of the four women was actually seen with that hypothetical john. MBB and MW were apparently seen after the big date.

Which makes me seriously rethink the entire situation.

 

[crimesnooper]

Respectfully snipped.

I agree with this. I think there are more farther north, and perhaps in other areas not close to LI if he travels a lot. I don't think the bodies currently found are the only ones, and I don't think he took off all of 2008, all though it is certainly possible for many reasons, I just don't think so. Not sure when his first was, but it may have been before 2007.The phone calls/texts suggest a bit of immaturity to his "control" needs. Well, that was just silly, so does murdering people for whatever reason he has, lol.

" A more specific profile of a serial killer has been presented by Apsche (1993) stating that most are white males in their twenties or thirties, who target strangers near their homes or places of work. "According to criminologist Eric Hickey, who has assembled the most extensive database on demography of serial murder states that, 88% of serial killers are male, 85% are Caucasian, and the average age when they claim their first victim is usually around 28.5. In terms of victim selection, 62% of the killers target strangers exclusively, and another 22% kill at least one stranger. Finally, 71% of the killers operate in a specific location or area, rather than traveling wide distances to commit their crimes"(Apsche, 1993, p.16). Also, the F.B.I claims that to be classified as a serial killer, the person must first complete 3 separate murders, that are spaced by a duration they call "the cooling off period" which can vary from a few days to years. But one thing that very few definitions include is that for a killer to be known as a "serial Killer", they must have a particular method to their killings. For instance, Wayne Gacy, had the trade mark of gagging victims with their own underwear so that they would die in their own vomit."www.uplink.com.au/lawlibrary/Documents/Docs/Doc5.html

If we believe that stat then the SK is in his late 20's/early 30's if his first victim was one of the four identified women. But if he is in the age range of late 50's/early 60's and that stat is true in this case, then we might be looking at deaths occuring from 1980 until now.

 

[NJGuy]

That's an excellent summary, but the dates don't match what I have on the master list. I have July 10, 2009 as the date Barthelmy was last seen, not August, and Sunday, June 6, 2010, for Megan Waterman, not May.

The other thing that I notice is that, if this is correct -- I thought Amber was seen getting into the car? -- not one of the four women was actually seen with that hypothetical john. MBB and MW were apparently seen after the big date.

Which makes me seriously rethink the entire situation.

That's something that has troubled me from the first time we heard some of these witness statements (assuming the statements are true and accurate)

Of all the things this guy does i.e. pick up women at their hotels, apartments, etc, makes phone calls, dumps the bodies....No one has ever seen him with any of the girls, either when picking them up or at any time in the car.
Something just doesn't add up...how could no one see this guy's face or car, either in person or on camera.

Something isn't adding up...is he that good?

 

[MrsG728]

Hey Crimesnooper, no worries! i am far from a noob and I still don't know what's right or wrong Welcome to WS :hug:

 

[waltzingmatilda]

crimesnooper, Honestly, I am not sure. He has given interviews to news media. He has stated in those interviews that he has been interviewed by LE 2 or 3 times. And there was apparently a lawsuit against this person which is a matter of public record. He has been named by SG's family in news articles as calling them the day after Shannan disappeared which he denies.

I admit, I am curious about the circumstances of this lawsuit. (what sleuth wouldn't be?) I also wonder if the date of the lawsuit and the date of his departure from his positions as police surgeon and head of Emergency services coincide with one another.

This is a grey area for me so I will refrain from commenting until Salem or another mod can clarify for us. I just don't want anyone to get a TO. I'll alert Salem and see what she determines.

MOO

wm

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

It's a good question what does constitute a POI? If you look at LE SOP I believe anyone connected to a Case in a relative way is a POI, until LE says otherwise. I'll try to find a link to verify.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Please continue here.

REMEMBER: DO NOT post links to sex sites - any sex sites. Not even Craig's List sex info. NONE.

DO NOT post home addresses of innocent people or phone numbers. Do not name people that are not in MSM and/or named by LE.

These are simple rules guys and you should already know them all.

THANK THIS POST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD.

Salem

Thread 5

Thread 4

Thread 3

Thread 2

Thread 1

Bumping up Salem's first post of this thread for clarification of TOS.

wm

 

[carbuff]

That's something that has troubled me from the first time we heard some of these witness statements (assuming the statements are true and accurate)

Of all the things this guy does i.e. pick up women at their hotels, apartments, etc, makes phone calls, dumps the bodies....No one has ever seen him with any of the girls, either when picking them up or at any time in the car.
Something just doesn't add up...how could no one see this guy's face or car, either in person or on camera.

Something isn't adding up...is he that good?

Maybe he's not a john. Maybe he or she is stalking the women somehow -- is in a position to see their professional behavior and thinks s/he is cleansing the world by getting rid of women he sees as immoral?

 

[carbuff]

I'm fairly new here so i have a Q regarding what constitutes sleuthing.So far LE has said no one is a suspect or POI but JB's name and background has been posted, as well as the dr. Were those posts out of line? Or is it sleuthing if we find info other than what's been reported in the media? Sorry to be such a newbie but I do not want to violate anyones' rights or damage reputation. Thanks

My understanding is that we can discuss him and his behavior as reported in MSM as relates to Shannon Gilbert's disappearance.

I could be wrong, of course, and if I am, I apologize. But I didn't think him giving interviews about what happened in his neighborhood made it open season on his entire life story.

 

[NJGuy]

This is a minor detail but I believe can also be important: He used MB's phone to taunt the sister for quite a while. Now either he had the same phone charger as her (unlikely but possible), went to a store and bought a charger for the phone (Eh, possible but somewhat unlikely) or he told MB he would pay for an overnight and she packed a bag, with her charger included (my personal belief).

Which goes along with what I've thought all along - He's divorced/single and has a place/house to host the girls, finds girls that are willing to do overnight dates, or he has already seen each girl a few times and develops a rapport with them. As for obtaining the sis's number and possibly MB's voicemail password, when girls do overnight stays, that's ALOT of time to talk and share thoughts, pasts, feelings etc. From both the john and the escort. I believe at some point MB probably shared her family's lives and stories and he used that info later.

My guess is that there will be alot of girls who had contact with the SK, but for whatever reason did not go with him on an overnight trip, which could also explain why the victims were from all over and picked up all over the area. Not all escorts do overnight dates. He had to find girls willing to do overnight dates, and it took some searching.

As Shadow posted earlier, I also think he lives in Massapequa, and the Vmail check was him intially using MB's phone, possibly he was looking to see if anyone called her to check on her etc.. He realized his mistake, that it can be traced, and made subsequent calls form all over Manhattan. I think that first Vmail call was his major mistake.

I also think he's not interested in LE recognition or the public attention, he cares about the connection to the girls and their families, that's what drives him and gets him excited...that power.

 

[Salem]

Good Morning everyone!

carbuff - you are absolutely right! JB can be discussed in regards to what was posted in MSM. He was the last person, besides the driver, to see SG.

Also, PH can be sleuthed in regards to what has come out in the MSM.

Sleuthing of innocent parties or parties NOT named by LE or MSM is not allowed and may NOT be posted here. Sometimes a sleuth may come across info that appears to be important, but it doesn't fit our rules. In that case, the sleuth just has to sit on it until MSM or LE give us reason to ferret out that info.

WS is not about scooping. It doesn't matter who gets the info first. What matters is that we are careful about splattering a person's name all over the web.

If you have questions, please PM me or any of the mods. You can find us by clicking "View Forum Leaders" at the bottom of any page.

Thanks!

Salem