NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #8

[future criminologist]

Ah, Great descriptive words IMO, sacroscint and odious.

keep 'em coming...those are two of my GRE "must know" words for the exam next Saturday

 

[future criminologist]

I think Gus is a nice old man and I hate it when people pick on him!

Not picking on him at all - I'm sure he's a great person, just someone who's seen a large amount of unusual activity for such a small place...like a character on Twin Peaks or something (the lady who talks to the tree stump maybe?)

 

[Just K]

I think Gus is a nice old man and I hate it when people pick on him!

Whose been picking on GC? I can't see any reason to pick on Gus. But some of these other neighbors, ugh, they are worth looking at. I'll bet with his vantage point, right there near the gatehouse, Gus has seen enough to write his very own book. Or his own history of Oak Beach as opposed to the white washed version on the "Association's" website.

 

[susan1122]

LOL...Walter Sickert. And Patricia Cornwell is goofy. :crazy:

YIKES! Sickert's paintings are seriously creepy. Not run of the mill creepy or even interesting creepy. Ewwwwwww.

By the way, anyone read "Twisted Triangle"? About a woman who was Patricia Cornwell's lover and her violent, awful husband? It was pretty interesting. (sorry if this has already been mentioned).

 

[nugzter]

Ok to my theory of why the SK is dismembering not to hide the ID of the Victim, but to hide traces of DNA evidence…..
JT, Missing since July 18-21 2003. (Link 1)
Tattoo Removal-
The common theory is that the tattoo was removed to conceal the ID of the victim. Yes, Tattoos are a means of Identifying victims. But notice the way the tattoo was removed. According to (Link 1) see Pic.
“A police photo taken at the scene shows a tattoo on the right side of her back, with dozens of razor-thin crooked gashes, as though someone spent some considerable time not merely cutting the tattoo off but repeatedly slicing it from top to bottom. Police say it took medical examiners pushing the skin together to figure out what the tattoo was: a red heart with an angel wing that said, ‘‘Remy’s angel.’’
We have to assume that this was done post-mortem, and all indications lead us to believe this is the case. Here we see he did not remove the wing, simply just the name part. “Remy’s Angel” This implies he is not interested in hiding the victims ID, but the name tattooed on the victim. It is a partial tattoo and could be traced back to the victim regardless. According to (Link 1)
“A Washington, D.C. detective recognized the tattoo, six months later, as belonging to a woman reported missing by another local prostitute.”
The killer of JT had no interest of hiding the victims ID by disfiguring the tattoo.
Side note: Any one notices the wing? Google “Hell’s Angels” and you can see the similarities. If she was a prostitute for the Hell’s Angels, she could have been tagged by her pimp. And when she fled maybe this pimp or his counterparts in NY tracked her down and she was killed for that reason.

Body parts and dump sites-
(Link 2) “Ms. Taylor's nude body, with her head and hands severed, was discovered July 26 by a woman walking her dog near Halsey Manor Road and the Long Island Expressway.”
The removal of the hands could mean that the victim my have put up a fight and had DNA from her killer under her fingernails. Same could apply to the head, by biting the perpetrator and having the DNA in her mouth. And taking the tattoo theory I proposed, this would make more sense than to mutilate to cover the victims ID.

Link 1 - http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/03/24/long-islands-other-serial-killer/3/ Mar 2011
Link 2- http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/08/nyregion/in-brief-a-manorville-body-is-identified.html Feb 2004

 

[Reannan]

Hi nugster,

Is that the order that they were found in?

Nugzter did a great job with that info, and I will add some additional information I have been trying to gather. The data is arranged in terms of who appears to have been missing the longest.

UID W/F, brown hair, mid 30's, 4'10 - 5'4 - possibly missing since September 2000; torso found 11/19/2000 (woods of Manorville)'; 4/4/2011 = head/hands feet found (Ocean Pwy)

UID White or Hispanic Male with black hair; mid 20's - Missing since ????; Found Manorville woods 11/23/2000 (strangled)

JT- Last seen 7/18/2003 - 7/21/2003; 7/26/2011 = Torso found in Manorville Pine Barrens; 3/29/2011 = Heads/hands/forearm found off Ocean Pwy.

UID White Male, 35-50 years old - Missing since 7/2003; 11/10/2003 - Found in same woods as other Manorville UID

MBB - Missing since 7/9/2007; Found Oak Beach 12/2010

MB - Missing since 7/12/2009; Found Oak Beach 12/2010

SG - Missing since 5/1/2010

MW - Missing since 6/6/2010; Found Oak Beach 12/2010

ALC - Missing since 9/2/2010; Found Oak Beach 12/2010

We need the identities of the Asian male and female toddler found 4/5/2011 in Oak Beach. What is taking so long??

Partial source of info:

Manorville Murders: http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/03/24/long-islands-other-serial-killer/

Linking Manorville to LI SK:
http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/05/10/linking-the-manorville-and-gilgo-homicides/

Please let me know if anyone sees that I have any information wrong, or if I should add anything. Thanks!!!

 

[Reannan]

I think Gus is a nice old man and I hate it when people pick on him!

I totally agree Redbird!!! I certainly was not picking on him, in fact, I would defend Gus!! I just find it really interesting that he has ended up in the media with two crimes!!! For an area of the world that is remote enough for "multiple serial killers" to dump bodies in, it is just really bizarre that a kind-hearted guy like GC could end up quoted by the media in two crimes. Maybe the media just likes to quote him because he sort of does represent everyone's grandfather. :waitasec:

 

[svpernin]

I think Gus is a nice old man and I hate it when people pick on him!

I feel oddly protective of GC, too. Glad I'm not the only one. I think he is the only person who tried to do the right thing that night... everyone else, including SCPD should be deeply ashamed of themselves for not doing more to help poor Shannan. They could have saved her.

 

[twocuriouscats]

Are you going to drive back by? :floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Redbird]

I feel oddly protective of GC, too. Glad I'm not the only one. I think he is the only person who tried to do the right thing that night... everyone else, including SCPD should be deeply ashamed of themselves for not doing more to help poor Shannan. They could have saved her.

He is my hero. Once while living in an apartment a woman came to my door with an abusive male right behind her in top pursuit. I felt really bad that I did not open my door, but I was there by myself with nothing to protect either one of us and I didn't dare. I did call security but they were both gone by the time it arrived. I thought it was pretty ballsy of him to invite her in and even confront the "Asian" in the SUV.

 

[svpernin]

He is my hero. Once while living in an apartment a woman came to my door with an abusive male right behind her in top pursuit. I felt really bad that I did not open my door, but I was there by myself with nothing to protect either one of us and I didn't dare. I did call security but they were both gone by the time it arrived. I thought it was pretty ballsy of him to invite her in and even confront the "Asian" in the SUV.

We live in a dangerous world and, unfortunately, those who try to help can be taken advantage of or caught in the crossfire. Most people just don't want to get involved which is certainly understandable.

That being said, GC's my hero too, what he did that night was above and beyond anything I'd ever expect from an average bystander. I'm just so sorry that it still wasn't enough.

 

[scandi]

Not picking on him at all - I'm sure he's a great person, just someone who's seen a large amount of unusual activity for such a small place...like a character on Twin Peaks or something (the lady who talks to the tree stump maybe?)

I think so too FC. In fact I think he was a Doo Wopper in the late 50's w/ the CLUSTERS where 'Sample Kiss' was their big hit. He also had the Gus Colletti Orchestra Co in W Islip NY I think. I think he might be one of these guys singing as it says his name on Google - 2009. Maybe a local will know.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2f9hlZ6zgs&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2f9hlZ6zgs&feature=related[/ame]\

Now back to Sleuthing. Yee Haw :rocker:

 

[future criminologist]

In other words, it feels more of a strange coincidence that identifying remains were found on the island while the torso's weren't treated with the same care.

I don't know, to me the chronology of discovery of the remains makes me think Jessica Taylor was a "rookie mistake" by this SK. He put JT's torso in Manorville, put her ID features in Oak Beach, and Manorville gets discovered, the same month as she was last seen - clearly not a good dump spot. Like Dexter when his sea of body dumps was discovered, the SK thought "crap, gotta find a new spot". Also, maybe he placed the ID features on Oak Beach because it's closer to him and he can more easier keep "watch" over them and move them if necessary. 4 years goes by (2003-2007) and he figures he's safe to dump everything on Oak Beach and is more comfortable there. I definitely think the SK's "safety" plays a factor - for some reason, he feels comfortable and "safe" dumping here and doesn't think they are likely to be discovered. They wouldn't have even been discovered had Shannen Gilbert not gone running out of JB's house anyway - because until then, no one had any reason to look there.

Also - unrelated to the above comment but because we're discussing body dump sites - is an interesting article from the NY Times about sites used by various crime syndicates in the tri-state area to dump bodies (I'm still in the process of reading it):

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/nyregion/in-new-york-area-no-shortage-of-grisly-dumping-grounds.html

and yeah, this'll probably give me nightmares again tonight to read, I need to find something brain-cleansing to watch before I go to bed.

 

[future criminologist]

We need the identities of the Asian male and female toddler found 4/5/2011 in Oak Beach. What is taking so long??

I want to find out the identity of the toddler more than anything - I wish they'd release more info on her identifying features (possible date of death, ethnicity, etc) - they must have some idea of who it is if they aren't asking for the public's help in identifying her right now - or are in touch with families of missing children to get DNA for comparison. I would think that's why they haven't told us more.

 

[susan1122]

I think Gus is a nice old man and I hate it when people pick on him!

I think he has guts......I like him, too. Like when the cops didn't come back to talk to him about Shannan for 4 months and he said something like "Where have you been?"....... He said something bold to Shannan's driver, too.

Yeah, Future Criminologist.....this whole thing is a little Twins Peakish!

 

[scandi]

I don't know, to me the chronology of discovery of the remains makes me think Jessica Taylor was a "rookie mistake" by this SK. He put JT's torso in Manorville, put her ID features in Oak Beach, and Manorville gets discovered, the same month as she was last seen - clearly not a good dump spot. Like Dexter when his sea of body dumps was discovered, the SK thought "crap, gotta find a new spot". Also, maybe he placed the ID features on Oak Beach because it's closer to him and he can more easier keep "watch" over them and move them if necessary. 4 years goes by (2003-2007) and he figures he's safe to dump everything on Oak Beach and is more comfortable there. I definitely think the SK's "safety" plays a factor - for some reason, he feels comfortable and "safe" dumping here and doesn't think they are likely to be discovered. They wouldn't have even been discovered had Shannen Gilbert not gone running out of JB's house anyway - because until then, no one had any reason to look there.

Also - unrelated to the above comment but because we're discussing body dump sites - is an interesting article from the NY Times about sites used by various crime syndicates in the tri-state area to dump bodies (I'm still in the process of reading it):

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/nyregion/in-new-york-area-no-shortage-of-grisly-dumping-grounds.html

and yeah, this'll probably give me nightmares again tonight to read, I need to find something brain-cleansing to watch before I go to bed.

So from this statement of yours, "They wouldn't have even been discovered had Shannen Gilbert not gone running out of JB's house anyway - because until then, no one had any reason to look there". do you think the disappearance of Shannan is not the work of the SK? Why would he allow her to get away from him like that, unless he was absolutely buzzed beyond belief?

 

[scandi]

I don't know, to me the chronology of discovery of the remains makes me think Jessica Taylor was a "rookie mistake" by this SK. He put JT's torso in Manorville, put her ID features in Oak Beach, and Manorville gets discovered, the same month as she was last seen - clearly not a good dump spot. Like Dexter when his sea of body dumps was discovered, the SK thought "crap, gotta find a new spot". Also, maybe he placed the ID features on Oak Beach because it's closer to him and he can more easier keep "watch" over them and move them if necessary. 4 years goes by (2003-2007) and he figures he's safe to dump everything on Oak Beach and is more comfortable there. I definitely think the SK's "safety" plays a factor - for some reason, he feels comfortable and "safe" dumping here and doesn't think they are likely to be discovered. They wouldn't have even been discovered had Shannen Gilbert not gone running out of JB's house anyway - because until then, no one had any reason to look there.

Also - unrelated to the above comment but because we're discussing body dump sites - is an interesting article from the NY Times about sites used by various crime syndicates in the tri-state area to dump bodies (I'm still in the process of reading it):

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/nyregion/in-new-york-area-no-shortage-of-grisly-dumping-grounds.html

and yeah, this'll probably give me nightmares again tonight to read, I need to find something brain-cleansing to watch before I go to bed.

A special thanks for that article Future criminologist. The NYT has such incredible writers. In fact I learned a new word for TCC to use here ~ DETRITUS: one definition being 'undissolved material from the decomposition of organic remains'.

And Imette, to hear her name again. It brings a shortness to my breath to think what she went thru that night she died. Like Annie Le ~ senseless. Each life taken is equal in God's sight, these two girls and those found on LI. I don't think there is ever true closure, but in the case we are studying, there is so much to learn now to even bring it to the point of possible closure for all of these families. IMO

 

[tlcya]

Either the UIM or the UIC are unrelated, or they are the aberration that explains it all. They were in the wrong place, they knew or saw something, some reason they were killed and were different than the other victims some way, some how.

 

[shadowraiths]

I don't know, to me the chronology of discovery of the remains makes me think Jessica Taylor was a "rookie mistake" by this SK.

Doubtful. He murdered and dismembered Jane Doe No. 6 in 2000. ( link ) Furthermore, a portion of her remains were also found in OP. ( link ) And that kill precedes Jessica's murder by three years. All things considered, and in light of recent revelations, I'm guessing this guy had already been doing his "thing" for quite some time... and well before Jane Doe No. 6. Why? Bc dismemberment isn't something someone knows how to do right out of the gate. It takes time and practice. And it takes mistakes... the one who got away... Since first kills tend to occur in the early to mid-twenties... primarily due to the fact that impulse control is not fully formed until mid-to-late twenties, this guy has to be, at least in his early to mid forties.

ETA ~ Btw, wrt Dexter. Interesting show, though completely and utterly off the mark wrt not only psychopathy but its etiology as well.

 

[shadowraiths]

NY beach community becomes dumping ground of death
(AP) – 12:41 AM

Authorities on Long Island suspect a serial killer may be responsible for the deaths of four prostitutes found in December dumped just steps from an isolated beach highway, but news this week that other killers have used the same strip of Ocean Parkway near Jones Beach as a dumping ground of death ratcheted up an already intense investigation.

"It is clear that the area in and around Gilgo Beach has been used to discard human remains for some period of time," Suffolk County District Attorney Thomas Spota said.

[...]

The FBI in 2004 established a database to track serial killings along U.S. highways. Since that time, it has compiled information on 595 victims and 275 suspects. Many of those crimes are believed to involve victims of over-the-road truckers or others who were found at truck stops, gas stations or restaurants along major highways. A Suffolk County police spokeswoman said all pertinent information about their investigation has been sent to the FBI, although the parkway doesn't allow access to commercial truckers.

[...]

Dr. Michael Baden, the chief forensic pathologist with the state police and host of the HBO cable TV show "Autopsy," said the killers likely chose the location because it's an area with which they're familiar and they're likely aware that it's sparsely populated, especially in the winter, when there are few beach visitors.

"It's a place the perpetrator knows about, usually near where he grew up or where he travels to or from. It's a place where it would be easy to throw a body and not be found," Baden said. "The initial issue is to go to a place where very few cars go and nobody will see you."

[...]

Baden, who travels by train from New York City to Albany on business, said he often peers out the window along the tracks that run parallel to the Hudson River.

"It's amazing how many interesting spots you find along the railroad tracks," he said. "Tremendous areas that nobody would ever see if someone were to leave a body there."​

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