NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

[Reannan]

Thanks for the radio link, Snapdragon. The phone call the doc made just totally thrusts him into the spotlight. Was he drunk? But what doesn't make sense to me is his how he and Shannon could have met. By chance as she was running through the streets? Did she come to his door? Was he at JBs?.....quote]

SBM... That was one of the very first questions I had. After some thought on this topic, I don't think it would be too surprising to think that perhaps the good doctor might have a scanner in his home. There had to be scanner traffic surrounding all of those 911 calls and the 'confusion' regarding where Shannon was calling from. MOO.

 

[Seaslug44]

Truthspider,
Do you know of any legal docs on the pending litigation that may be accessible through PACER? Can you disclose the gist of it? So 2 years as police surgeon employed by the county -- but 14 years ago? What since?

I'm all for vetting out substantiated info and showing how this or that person could be involved based on their history. I have a harder time accepting anecdotal evidence or to believe that something is automatically suspicious if it's unclear or unknown. I prefer to put my effort into what's not reasonably explainable.

The OIBA address Hackett is using as a licensed physician is explainable.

His current employment/non-employment, though ambiguous, still may be explainable (his wife works - so there is documented income in that household and he may not work).

Not explainable is this:
If you account for Mari Gilbert's claim that Hackett called her on Sunday, May 2 (the day after Shannan disappeared but before it was known to her family that she was missing) with the infamous "I treated your daughter, she's okay" call and you also account for Hackett's documentation (a phone bill) that he called Mari on Thursday, May 6 and spoke for 4 minutes "offering his support" and another 4-minute call he believes was to Shannan's sister (presumably Sherre) on Sunday, May 9... that makes not 1 but 3 conversations between Hackett and the Gilberts. The last call was on Mother's Day at about noon. The same day Hackett says he "met" with the Gilberts when they were distributing Missing Persons posters.

Neither Mari nor Sherre have mentioned a second (May 6) and third call (May 9) from Hackett. But it appears he has that documentation - a phone bill, that if need be, could be verified by the phone company. Unless he just left 2 long-winded 4-minute messages on their voice mails and no conversation took place.

Hackett denies the first conversation on May 2. Since he's relying on his phone bill as proof of the dates (5/6 & 5/9) he claimed he did speak with Mari and Sherre, it would be pretty stupid to use that as evidence if it shows a call to Mari on May 2 too. Unless he's bluffing about the phone bill and hopes no one will subpoena it.

Questions:
1. Does Mari have Caller ID and did she write down his phone number on May 2nd? Did she jot down notes about the strange call? Did she immediately try calling Shannan after Hackett's bizarre claim to say "Hey, I got this weird call about you from some rehab doctor... are you okay?" and find that Shannan's phone went straight to voice mail for days?
2. If Hackett spoke with "the sister" for 4 minutes on May 9th, did the conversation include her saying "well, I'm headed to Oak Beach now to distribute Missing Persons posters maybe I'll stop by"? Or did he speak with her and this was not mentioned and then later that day the Gilberts knock on his door during the Hackett's Mother's Day celebration?
3. In his June 28, 2011 letter to 48 hours Hackett claimed he met Mari ("Mrs") Gilbert on that May 9, 2010 Mother's Day. But, in Jim Jones' blog entry, the time is August (not sure if 2010 or 2011 -- but nonetheless it's months after Hackett said he met Mari) and it appears from Jones' account that Mari and Hackett were meeting for the first time.

Neptune

Sources:
1. Jim Jones' Blog Fieldnotes to an inquiry; The Doctor and the Doctor's Wife; 10-05-2011
2. Letters from Hackett to 48 Hours

Everyone has taken it easy and not challenged any of Mari's accusations. Truth-be-told, she has stated in an interview with New York magazine that she has no proof that it was Hackett and that she can't even be sure that it was him. This suggests that she does not have any phone records that back the May 2nd phone call (and that Hackett might be telling the truth that his phone records prove that he did not call her on May 2nd).

Mari didn’t know what to make of the call. Looking back, she can’t even be sure it was Hackett on the phone

Source here

 

[Sillybilly]

From WS member svpernin:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7294393&postcount=329"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #11[/ame]

BTW: I know Mari allegedly said on LISK that she has proof of the first phone call coming from Hackett's phone, I don't know what to think of that... if those records exist, then why would CPH admit to the second two phone calls but continue to deny the first?

Can't find it now, but i also recall reading that Mari said it was in fact Hackett's phone number that appeared on Caller ID. If we are to assume that someone spoofed that number in the first call of May 2, it makes it even more of a huge coincidence that CPH would end up making the call of May 6 and 9, which he has admitted to. FWIW, Mari stated that when she received that first call, she didn't even know Shannan was missing (so that rules out any confusion with the May 9 date, and may just leave May 6 in question as being the first call, as opposed to May 2 ... make sense??)

ETA: Also, from:

http://longislandserialkiller.com/2011/10/bs-9/

Mari states:

Alex, and Pac contacted Hackett because my daughter contacted Alex to find Shannan. We told Alex about my conversation with a Hackett man.

 

[Sillybilly]

A bit OT, but am wondering what's up with the findshannangilbert site ... it's been in "maintenance mode" for a few days now.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Thanks for the radio link, Snapdragon. The phone call the doc made just totally thrusts him into the spotlight. Was he drunk? But what doesn't make sense to me is his how he and Shannon could have met. By chance as she was running through the streets? Did she come to his door? Was he at JBs?

Shannon's sister says Shannon seemed drugged and difficult for the 911 operator to understand. If so, I don't think it's coke. If she was coked up she would have sounded manic, but not necessarily drugged, right?

I've worked in psychiatric settings and seen many manic people and many coked up people and plenty of people who were coked up and manic at the same time. In some cases they were in a state of psychosis and were incoherent, but I could always understand the words they were saying. My point is, it's important to know if the operator thought she was speaking nonsensically or slurring her words in some way.

Would love for somebody to solve this case!



Whenever I see a van without windows I either immediately think "rape van" or "FBI surveillance vehicle". But I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons to own a vehicle like that. Hey, the mystery machine from scooby doo didn't have windows, and they solved crimes.

I couldn't stop laughing at your Scooby reference!

Your "FBI surveillance vehicle" reference got me wondering what LE does with those vehicles they no longer use. Do they keep them? Recycle them in some way? Do they sell them? If they sell them, do they sell them to the general public? If they sell them to the public, are they sold stripped of the cool stuff? Or, do they sell them to the public with the cool stuff---gadgets intact, Faraday outfitted etc. --- (God, I hope not)?

 

[Dwntwnslim]

From WS member svpernin:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #11



Can't find it now, but i also recall reading that Mari said it was in fact Hackett's phone number that appeared on Caller ID. If we are to assume that someone spoofed that number in the first call of May 2, it makes it even more of a huge coincidence that CPH would end up making the call of May 6 and 9, which he has admitted to. FWIW, Mari stated that when she received that first call, she didn't even know Shannan was missing (so that rules out any confusion with the May 9 date, and may just leave May 6 in question as being the first call, as opposed to May 2 ... make sense??)

ETA: Also, from:

http://longislandserialkiller.com/2011/10/bs-9/

Mari states:

I would advise caution when contemplating information from the website you've linked in your post, IMHO. For all we know, that post could of been made by some kid in his mom's basement using the "Mari Gilbert" handle, IMHO. From what I observed, handles do get used by more than one person there, IMHO.

 

[Redbird]

I would advise caution when contemplating information from the website you've linked your post, IMHO. For all we know, that post could of been made by some kid in his mom's basement using the "Mari Gilbert" handle, IMHO. From what I observed, handles do get used by more than one person, IMHO.

Upthread I asked about this, being skeptical about Mari posting at that site. Members who are credible here at WS answered that they think it really is Mari and that Mari made similar statement at the FindShannanGilbert website. So I guess it boils down to believe who you want to believe, the mother, or the pathological liar. I'm sure no one at this point is likely to change their mind or opinion.

 

[Clem Snide]

I couldn't stop laughing at your Scooby reference!
[/B]

Thanks. I try to take everything I've learned from countless childhood hours of watching Scooby Doo and apply it to this case. My sincere hope is that when the LISK is caught he'll say "....and I would've gotten away with it, if it wasn't for those meddling websleuths!"

 

[Seaslug44]

I agree that we should keep an open mind and not assume anything.

On another note, it should be pointed out that Suffolk County police department has a strict policy of not releasing misleading information (even as a method of tricking a suspect).

So when they state that a poi had been ruled out as a suspect, they only do so when their homicide team of detectives all 100% agree and their supervisors sign off on it as being fact. They would never intentionally mislead the public and make us think that a potential murderer has been cleared of the suspected crimes. That would be gross negligence on their part (and it simply does not happen on Long Island).

So for the department to state that JB, MP and CPH have all been cleared, that means that they are sitting upon concrete evidence that rules each man out (unless you buy into the conspiracy/corruption/cover up theory).

 

[Sillybilly]

On another note, it should be pointed out that Suffolk County police department has a strict policy of not releasing misleading information (even as a method of tricking a suspect).

<rsbm>

Why do you think their policy differs from that of other PDs?

 

[WINDSOR]

[
So for the department to state that JB, MP and CPH have all been cleared, that means that they are sitting upon concrete evidence that rules each man out (unless you buy into the conspiracy/corruption/cover up theory).[/QUOTE]

When I initially heard this statement from LE, I believed it was purposeful mis-information. If you say these gentlemen have been cleared, definitely I can see no reason to withold SG's 911 call. Who are they protecting? Somebody they cleared already?

If JB, MP and the person many WSleuths are focusing on PCH; have been cleared, then there are no suspects, no leads and little hope.

I can see why Dormer has pushing the SG `drowned` theory, if those gentlemen are not suspects.

If Shannan did drown, (natural death); then it would make sense. But I do not believe that any coroner is going to state absolutely no foul play was involved.

LE does not have to be in a conspiracy/corrupt/cover up, Incompetence could lead them down the wrong path. Either the FBI has to take over or the Suffolk County legislature has to start getting involved to find out what is happenning.

Let us hope this case gets re-engerized in the New Year.

 

[goathairjones]

I agree that we should keep an open mind and not assume anything.

On another note, it should be pointed out that Suffolk County police department has a strict policy of not releasing misleading information (even as a method of tricking a suspect).

So when they state that a poi had been ruled out as a suspect, they only do so when their homicide team of detectives all 100% agree and their supervisors sign off on it as being fact. They would never intentionally mislead the public and make us think that a potential murderer has been cleared of the suspected crimes. That would be gross negligence on their part (and it simply does not happen on Long Island).

So for the department to state that JB, MP and CPH have all been cleared, that means that they are sitting upon concrete evidence that rules each man out (unless you buy into the conspiracy/corruption/cover up theory).

Seaslug, How do you know this for certain? It sounds like you are privy to some inside information regarding the SCPD's internal policies.

 

[scandi]

Upthread I asked about this, being skeptical about Mari posting at that site. Members who are credible here at WS answered that they think it really is Mari and that Mari made similar statement at the FindShannanGilbert website. So I guess it boils down to believe who you want to believe, the mother, or the pathological liar. I'm sure no one at this point is likely to change their mind or opinion.

Hi Redbird, Does she go by the first initial of her last name?

 

[Seaslug44]

Seaslug, How do you know this for certain? It sounds like you are privy to some inside information regarding the SCPD's internal policies.

Let's just say that the SCPD is in some very hot water and has been under investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice and one of the areas of concern is making sure that all levels of the department remain completely truthful with their superiors and with the public. The department is in enough trouble. They are taking precautions to be on their best behavior. It would not be good timing if they told the public that these men have been ruled out as suspects if that is not truly the case. If one of these men is the serial killer and they suspect it but are telling the public the opposite, then the blood of any future victims is on the department's hands. Gross negligence.

Info about the current investigation of the SCPD can be found here:

http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/spl/documents/suffolkPD_TA_9-13-11.pdf

 

[Seaslug44]

And this list of procedures states that it is now their policy to always be open with the public as well as disclose the names of any potential suspects before their arrest if they pose a threat to the public;

Media Relations Policy

 

[snapdragon2]

Thanks Snapdragon, I was just going to retrieve that from my favorites, lol. I'll re-read it, but thought she or Sherre said he called them before the Missing Report was either made or made public. That was why it caught everyone's eye, how he knew she was missing at that point.


Neptune stated how I remember it, " . . (the day after Shannan disappeared but before it was known to her family that she was missing)" in his/her post above.

On the site where Sherre posted right away in the case, she also said there were things LE had asked them not to discuss. Maybe that is why, as you said Neptune, "Neither Mari nor Sherre have mentioned a second (May 6) and third call (May 9) from Hackett". Maybe LE asked them to keep info about those 2 calls quiet. Just sayin'.

I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say "Maybe that is why, as you said Neptune, "Neither Mari nor Sherre have mentioned a second (May 6) and third call (May 9) from Hackett". Maybe LE asked them to keep info about those 2 calls quiet. Just sayin'."

I didn't say that to Neptune. What I'm saying is that what some are saying was a second call (May 6) was in fact probably the first call, going by what Sherre says in that radio interview.

 

[snapdragon2]

from:
http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/index5.html

Thanks for that. Does anyone know if that was reported anywhere else? Because it is in direct contradiction with the radio interview. Could that be misreported? I have to listen to the interview again, but I'm pretty sure it sounded like the first contact they had with him was, as she said, the day after Shannan was reported missing. I'll listen again to see if it sounds like she is just not mentioning an earlier call.

The distinction is important, in my opinion, because the earlier he called them, the more suspicious it seem, although I personally think it's suspicious no matter when he called. Although I guess he'd say that he called after talking to MP and Alex, and they did in fact go there the day after Shannan disappeared.

Various facts have been reported differently in the media over time, so I think it's important to try to figure out what is correct, since this phone call issue is really what put him on everyone's radar to begin with. Does anyone else feel like looking into this...?! (Please?!)

 

[snapdragon2]

From WS member svpernin:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #11



Can't find it now, but i also recall reading that Mari said it was in fact Hackett's phone number that appeared on Caller ID. If we are to assume that someone spoofed that number in the first call of May 2, it makes it even more of a huge coincidence that CPH would end up making the call of May 6 and 9, which he has admitted to. FWIW, Mari stated that when she received that first call, she didn't even know Shannan was missing (so that rules out any confusion with the May 9 date, and may just leave May 6 in question as being the first call, as opposed to May 2 ... make sense??)

ETA: Also, from:

http://longislandserialkiller.com/2011/10/bs-9/

Mari states:

Okay, now my head is starting to hurt!

Do we know for sure that Mari wrote that post? Anyone can post on there under any name. I'm not saying it isn't her, but how do we know for certain it is.

If it is, what she wrote is confusing.

She says: "Alex, and Pac (sic) contacted Hackett because my daughter contacted Alex to find Shannan. We told Alex about my conversation with a Hackett man." That, and the fact that she didn't contradict the question "Why didn’t Alex or Pak call Shannon’s family to tell them she was missing?" makes it seem as if Alex and Pak went to Oak Beach only after the family (her daughter) called them, when it has been widely reported they went the next day and, I always thought, of their own accord. But then she says they (Alex and Pak) visited both JB and the doctor the next morning. So for all of that to be true, the doctor would have had to call her immediately the next day, after which they would have called Alex, after which he went to Oak Beach with MP and talked to the doctor.

I don't think the authorship of that post is reliable. (One other thing: Pak wouldn't have been driving Shannan because she didn't have a driver's license, as she wrote. Many escorts have drivers, especially from escort agencies, which is where Shannan was working previously and met Pak. She wouldn't drive herself even if she had a license.)

No disrespect intended if it was written by Mari, but it's full of spelling/grammatical errors and badly written - and Mari may come from a working class background but she is very articulate in interviews and seems quite smart. (Although I guess that doesn't mean she would necessarily write well.) Also, "she" wrote Pak as "Pac" - I just wonder if she would still be unaware of the spelling of his name in Oct. 2011.

 

[snapdragon2]

I agree that we should keep an open mind and not assume anything.

On another note, it should be pointed out that Suffolk County police department has a strict policy of not releasing misleading information (even as a method of tricking a suspect).

So when they state that a poi had been ruled out as a suspect, they only do so when their homicide team of detectives all 100% agree and their supervisors sign off on it as being fact. They would never intentionally mislead the public and make us think that a potential murderer has been cleared of the suspected crimes. That would be gross negligence on their part (and it simply does not happen on Long Island).

So for the department to state that JB, MP and CPH have all been cleared, that means that they are sitting upon concrete evidence that rules each man out (unless you buy into the conspiracy/corruption/cover up theory).

But wait - who ever said they were "cleared"? I never read or heard that. I've never heard the words "ruled out" either. I've heard it said they aren't "a suspect" but isn't that different from being "cleared" or "ruled out" - couldn't they be omitting the words "at this time" , or isn't it possible that, unless they are definitively ruled out, things could still change?

 

[Doop]

I agree that we should keep an open mind and not assume anything.

On another note, it should be pointed out that Suffolk County police department has a strict policy of not releasing misleading information (even as a method of tricking a suspect).

So when they state that a poi had been ruled out as a suspect, they only do so when their homicide team of detectives all 100% agree and their supervisors sign off on it as being fact. They would never intentionally mislead the public and make us think that a potential murderer has been cleared of the suspected crimes. That would be gross negligence on their part (and it simply does not happen on Long Island).

So for the department to state that JB, MP and CPH have all been cleared, that means that they are sitting upon concrete evidence that rules each man out (unless you buy into the conspiracy/corruption/cover up theory).

or the complete incompetence of the SCPD...