NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

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They always think they're too smart to get away with it. There's definitely somebody who is hiding in plain sight who I'm leaning towards. No idea if he posts here or has been here, but I wouldn't be surprised.


I agree that he is hiding in plain sight. I for one think it's Possible he has been posting here and at that "other site". I thinks it's Possible that the "other site" could be the perp's site. Might have he initiated a misdirection campaign here and over there?

I also think he has spoken with the media at least once for sure.

No, I don't think the perp us you Clem!
 
I agree that he is hiding in plain sight. I for one think it's Possible he has been posting here and at that "other site". I thinks it's Possible that the "other site" could be the perp's site. Might have he initiated a misdirection campaign here and over there?

I also think he has spoken with the media at least once for sure.

No, I don't think the perp us you Clem!

::wiping sweat off my brow:: Whew! That's a relief.
 
From the above link: The reporter states that this victim's head was found at Jones Beach near Field Area 6. Her legs were found on Fire Island. This may be a huge clue into the mentality of the killer..especially when we consider the UID male who was dressed in women's clothing.

In that old NYT article, that I quoted early today and that references the history of Jones Beach, Field Area 6 is mentioned two times...once in reference to where gay men arranged meet ups and also where folks who wanted to swim nude often went.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/28/n...ch-is-like-no-other-place.html?pagewanted=all

"Single men and women mingle on the main beach, and in the unofficial gay section east of Parking Field 6, men ignore the ''Stay Off Dunes'' signs and slip behind the tall beach grass for afternoon cruising."

and this:
"The crime rate is negligible, mostly petty larceny and occasional rowdy fisticuffs. Pets, alcohol and nudity are prohibited. But coolers are rarely examined for liquid contraband, and those who find bathing suits superfluous discreetly gravitate east of Field 6."

Keep in mind, this story was published in 1997. This victim's legs were discovered on Fire Island in 1996!

Just K, really good point. I'm not discounting it, but I did want to mention that the part of the beach you're referring to is south of Ocean Parkway, whereas (I believe) all of the body parts found along Ocean Parkway were north of the parkway. I think this is just lazy reporting (east of Field 6, east of the Jones Beach tower, etc.). Anything to the south would have been found literally within days given just the volume of people that spend time at the beach.

Also realize what we don't know. We don't know exactly where the "Jane Doe 1996" victim's skull was found. I believe that it was discovered right off the parkway, similar to the GB4. The following article cites it as on the "outskirts" of the bird sanctuary.

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/04/skull_and_remains_found_could.html

Also, this article says the skull was found "100 feet" from the parkway. The human head weighs 8-12 pounds. A decapitated head probably weights less due to blood loss. A shotput weighs 16 pounds, and a good high school athlete can probably throw a shotput 40 feet. I'm guessing an average person could probably throw a decapitated female head maybe 35-40 feet? So they probably walked as far in as they could, say half the length of a basketball court, and then threw.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704662604576256901000057620.html

So, was the perp a regular gay "cruiser" or into nude beaches? Did he park his car in Field 6 or Tobay and then walk around with a head in his bag to the ultimate dump site? Probably not.

It's more likely that his method of disposal was driving down Ocean Parkway at night, but not too late. Maybe like 9 or 10 PM? Little or no traffic, but not too late to be noticed by police. My guess is that he comes from Robert Moses Parkway, heading west. In 1996, this may have been his first "dump". He probably threw her legs over the Robert Moses causeway and a car came by before he got a chance to dump the head. He hoped back in his car and kept driving. He probably passed Gilgo, but maybe there was another car or maybe he was still freaked out from having almost been spotted while dumping the legs. He just kept driving, all the way to Jones Beach circle turnaround. Right before he got to the circle, he felt comfortable enough after he passed Tobay and pulled over, dumping the head "on the outskirts" of the bird sanctuary.

As it turned out, the legs washed ashore shortly after the dump and probably made the news pretty quickly. He realized that dumping in the water was not a great idea because it brought too much attention. He also realized that driving all the way down Ocean Parkway just adds too much risk, so he compromised and came up with the new location - east of Gilgo.
 
If the perp is using unwilling or unknowing contributors doesn't that mean he is hiding behind others?
I meant that the SK uses his power of perception and/or persuasion (a well versed con-artist, IMO) to get others to invite him to events or venues. In this manner, he is afforded the opportunity to appear as if he is just another harmless guest or attendee. And, he is therefore given access, in a non-threatening environment, to an introduction to his ultimate conquests.

For example, he is innocently invited to either an event, a workplace, or a function by either established business persons or socially well-regarded persons. Once there, the women who trust the host, who most likely came to her or her handler via a referral from some previous host or employer, believe that they are surrounded by other well-vetted guests. He privately finds a way to give the women a way to contact him. Then over time he grooms them even further until they are confident enough to meet him alone....throwing caution to the wind. Putting enough time between the initial event/meeting and the private last meeting, the original host/contact doesn't even think of him as a possible suspect. This SK has proven to be a very patient, precise, and prepared opportunist. IMO, of course.

It may also be the case that his techniques and his MO have matured with his age and professional or social status.
 
JustK

You hit my theory almost right-on. I believe the SK has several contacts with his intended victim, whereby she becomes very trusting of the SK. Then the SK makes his move.

A huge task for LE, but they have to check each of the deceaseds' history for

1) multiple contacts with one individual.
2) if one individual has any contact with two or more of the deceased.

This will be very difficult because by the nature of their occupations these women tended not to have great record keeping systems.

Telephone records will be the best place to start, realizing that the SK has proficiency in this technology and will have made efforts to disguise his phone. However he may have made an error that will lead to his discovery.

Another idea, we know he made some phone calls to the sister of one of the deceased. I have a hunch he used that phone to phone some other potential or actual victims.
 
I meant that the SK uses his power of perception and/or persuasion (a well versed con-artist, IMO) to get others to invite him to events or venues. In this manner, he is afforded the opportunity to appear as if he is just another harmless guest or attendee. And, he is therefore given access, in a non-threatening environment, to an introduction to his ultimate conquests.

For example, he is innocently invited to either an event, a workplace, or a function by either established business persons or socially well-regarded persons. Once there, the women who trust the host, who most likely came to her or her handler via a referral from some previous host or employer, believe that they are surrounded by other well-vetted guests. He privately finds a way to give the women a way to contact him. Then over time he grooms them even further until they are confident enough to meet him alone....throwing caution to the wind. Putting enough time between the initial event/meeting and the private last meeting, the original host/contact doesn't even think of him as a possible suspect. This SK has proven to be a very patient, precise, and prepared opportunist. IMO, of course.

It may also be the case that his techniques and his MO have matured with his age and professional or social status.


Your scenario certainly is plausible,IMO.

IMO, the perp's social skills aren't that well developed. IMO, it doesn't take much finesse to lure potential victims who are broke and/or dealing with substance abuse issues. All the perp would have to do in dangle $$$$, IMO. The Ohio craigslist perps lured men to their area by promising jobs at $300 a week.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/19/craigslist-killer-plight-america-jobless

This New York magazine article talks about the money problems and substance abuse issues of some of the Long Island victims:

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/

The following is a quote from S.T.A.L.K., INC, who In My Humble Opinion , has given the most accurate profile of the Long Island perp:

“He has a way of finding out which prostitutes don’t have a driver, pimp or someone watching over them.”

http://www.stalkinc.com/profile6.html

One of the methods I think the perp might accomplish what was stated in the above quote, is by hacking into potential victims craigslist accounts Before he begins pursuing them. He conducts cyber recon missions, IMO. One method he might of used is talked about in this blog link:

http://blog.onlymyemail.com/craigslist-confirmation-for-posting-fraud/

Another possible method is talked about here:

http://blog.onlymyemail.com/click-here-to-log-in-craigslist-phishing/
 
As far as Jane Doe 1996 and the cross dressing asian male, have we considered Robert Shulman? He bashed people over their heads with barbells (asian male had blunt force trauma to the head) and apparently cut some legs off too (Jane Doe 1996). He also was apparently into smoking "tons of crack" and perhaps the asian male was too. Note that tooth loss is a part of the long term effects of smoking crack.

Also, he was arrested April 6, 1996. Jane Doe 1996's legs washed ashore April 11, 1996. This might fit. The asian male was supposedly there anywhere from 5-10 years, but I assume it probably wouldn't surprise anyone at the Medical Examiner's office if that was from 1996 too.

Check this out:

http://www.mayhem.net/Crime/serial4.html
Robert Shulman (3+) A 42-year-old post office sorter, Robert Shulman has been charged with killing four prostitutes between 1991 and 1996 and dumping their dismembered bodies in garbage bins around New York. The sensitive type, Bobby whimpered as he was led to a police car in Patchogue, Long Island. He said he felt "horrible" and apologized to the families of the victims. Shulman's brother been charged with helping dump some bodies, but is not believed to have be involved in the killings.

Shulman enjoyed picking up prostitutes and taking them back to his apartment for drugs and mayhem. After satiating his senses he would beat them to death using a hammer, baseball bat or a set of barbells.

Bobbie would sometimes chop off the dead girls' arms and/or handsso they couldn't be identified and dumped their remains in garbage containers in Long Island, Brooklyn and Yonkers. curiously, he aslo chopped off a leg or two.

Police tracked down one of the victims from a tattoo on her body. Investigators were then able to link Shulman and his brother's blue Cadillac to the dead prostitute. First police charged him with killing two women. While in custody he admitted involvement in three other murders. Apparently he would smoke tons of crack with his prostitute friends, black out and wake up to find them dead.

On March 4, 1999, a Suffolk County Court jury convicted Shulman of first-degree murder in Long Island's first capital murder case since a new death penalty law has been enacted. Shulman was found guilty of murdering and dismembering three prostitutes in 1994 and 1995. He is suspected of at least two more killings.

In court, Shulman wore a plaid shirt and a blue sweater. When he was arrested, his hair was long and scraggly. In court, he wore his hair in a buzz cut. It has taken three months of pre-trial hearings, four months of jury selection, and four months of testimony and two days of deliberation. The penalty phase of the trial begins March 15.

To be prosecuted under New York's new serial killer provision, a defendant must be accused of killing three or more people within a 24-month period as part of a common scheme or plan or in a similar fashion.

On May 7, 1999, a jury recommended the death penalty for former Shulman. The Suffolk County Court jury deliberated about five hours before recommending death by lethal injection for the murders of three prostitutes. "This defendant was a killing machine," said. "The jury was right on the mark in its decision."

Shulman was convicted of killing Kelly Sue Bunting, 28, of Hollis, Queens, whose body was found in December 1995 in a trash bin in Melville, Long Island; Lisa Ann Warner, 18, of Jamaica, Queens, whose body was found in April 1995 at a Brooklyn trash recycling plant; and an unidentified woman whose mutilated body was found in December 1994 on a roadside in Medford. He is also is awaiting trial in Westchester County for the murders of two other women. He is accused of killing Lori Vasquez, a 24-year-old Brooklyn woman, in 1991 and dumping her body into a Yonkers trash can. He also allegedly killed and dismembered another woman whose body was found in a trash bin in Yonkers in 1992. She was never identified.

Shulman's attorney, Paul Gianelli, argued that his client's life should be spared because he suffered from depression and had a weak grasp of reality. As a result, the attorney said, Shulman was unable to help prepare a defense during the sentencing phase of the trial.

Defense testimony recounting Shulman's troubled childhood -- his mother and brother suicide -- failed to sway the jurors. He will be formally sentenced to death by Suffolk County Court Judge Arthur Pitts on June 3. Shulman, who faces two more murder charges in Westchester County, attempted suicide with a razor after his conviction. He wept as yesterday's death sentence was announced.
 
Your scenario certainly is plausible,IMO.

IMO, the perp's social skills aren't that well developed. IMO, it doesn't take much finesse to lure potential victims who are broke and/or dealing with substance abuse issues. All the perp would have to do in dangle $$$$, IMO. The Ohio craigslist perps lured men to their area by promising jobs at $300 a week.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/19/craigslist-killer-plight-america-jobless

This New York magazine article talks about the money problems and substance abuse issues of some of the Long Island victims:

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/

The following is a quote from S.T.A.L.K., INC, who In My Humble Opinion , has given the most accurate profile of the Long Island perp:

“He has a way of finding out which prostitutes don’t have a driver, pimp or someone watching over them.”

http://www.stalkinc.com/profile6.html

One of the methods I think the perp might accomplish what was stated in the above quote, is by hacking into potential victims craigslist accounts Before he begins pursuing them. He conducts cyber recon missions, IMO. One method he might of used is talked about in this blog link:

http://blog.onlymyemail.com/craigslist-confirmation-for-posting-fraud/

Another possible method is talked about here:

http://blog.onlymyemail.com/click-here-to-log-in-craigslist-phishing/


Sorry for the bad grammar in this post!

The third sentence in the second paragraph should read: All the perp would have to do is dangle $$$$, IMO.

The first sentence of the fifth paragraph should read: One approach the perp might have taken to accomplish what was stated in the above quote, was to hack/crack into potential victims' craigslist accounts Before he began pursuing them.

Thanks!
 
JustK

You hit my theory almost right-on. I believe the SK has several contacts with his intended victim, whereby she becomes very trusting of the SK. Then the SK makes his move.

A huge task for LE, but they have to check each of the deceaseds' history for

1) multiple contacts with one individual.
2) if one individual has any contact with two or more of the deceased.

This will be very difficult because by the nature of their occupations these women tended not to have great record keeping systems.

Telephone records will be the best place to start, realizing that the SK has proficiency in this technology and will have made efforts to disguise his phone. However he may have made an error that will lead to his discovery.

Another idea, we know he made some phone calls to the sister of one of the deceased. I have a hunch he used that phone to phone some other potential or actual victims.

Don't forget, some transactions were done via the internet and the internet is forever.
 
JustK

You hit my theory almost right-on. I believe the SK has several contacts with his intended victim, whereby she becomes very trusting of the SK. Then the SK makes his move.

A huge task for LE, but they have to check each of the deceaseds' history for

1) multiple contacts with one individual.
2) if one individual has any contact with two or more of the deceased.

This will be very difficult because by the nature of their occupations these women tended not to have great record keeping systems.

Telephone records will be the best place to start, realizing that the SK has proficiency in this technology and will have made efforts to disguise his phone. However he may have made an error that will lead to his discovery.

Another idea, we know he made some phone calls to the sister of one of the deceased. I have a hunch he used that phone to phone some other potential or actual victims.

Most escort clients use false names and prepaid phones because they want their identity to remain secret. The escorts do the same thing. There is nothing unusual about that, and LE not being able to track the killer by that means is to be expected. It doesn't imply any more or less trust by the escort.

I have allready explained how this guy operates in a way he can't be tracked. He uses a non traceable throw away phone to make the appointments, he meets the escort on neutral ground and then they go somewhere else to do the deed (which unbeknownst to her, is murder). So, no traceable phone call record, no home address, no meeting pimps/drivers/security. This is not an unusal thing in the escort world where protecting privacy and avoiding entrapment by LE is essential, specially in the lower rungs of that world.

The very nature of how the business is done is what allows him to avoid dectection.
 
Don't forget, some transactions were done via the internet and the internet is forever.
Sites similar to Craigslist and similar in size and scope tend to track views and specifically the IP addresses of viewers whether they login with an email address or not. So, maybe LE needs to go back to the dates that GB4 went missing and contact the social networking sites where the women placed their ads. If the sites use IP trackers then LE should find a connection.

Shady sites are notorious for tracking views/viewers in order to spam people later.
 
Hi all,

Wow, I have been dying to post here but didn't want to until I was caught up. I have just finally made my way through the all the threads on this LISK. It took me days and days. Phew.

Before I jump into posting I just want to give my opinion on one thing, and ask two questions, if I may.

Wrt JB saying he didn't pay Shannon and that she was only there 45 minutes...well I don't believe his story for a minute. I think he is simply minimising his participation in an illegal activity (hiring an escort). I think she was there the whole three hours and that she did indeed get paid.

My first question - was Shannan's wallet recovered with her belongings? I am curious to see if it had any money in it. My mind is fuzzy after spending most of today (it's quite late at night here in Australia) speeding through the posts. I saw I was getting close to getting through all the threads and read pretty quickly at the end and missed this info.

I have been wondering about her belongings. If she was running around frantically calling for help on the morning she disappeared, did she have her bag with her? If not, well, how did it end up in the middle of nowhere? Somebody had to put it there AFTER she was running around and then disappeared.

My second question - I have seen people talking about her being high that night. I know her family have said she had some cocaine issues, but is there any definitive way of knowing for sure if she was using that night?

Thanks. I look forward to joining in the discussions.

WL

ETA: I just thought of something else that has been bothering me. MG said that CPH, or somebody purporting to be CHP called her the day after SG went missing. Somebody had to have made that call, I just wish I knew whether it was actually the doc or somebody else. MG didn't just pull a name out of her behind when she reported receiving that call. What are the chances she just made up a name of somebody and that name happened to be that of a man who can't make up his mind on whether or not he saw SG the morning she was running around calling for help!
 
Welcome to WS, WhiteLilly!

I don't think there is anyway we will ever know if Shannan was using that night as the players have all told conflicting stories.

I have the same questions as you wrt SG's belongings. Her purse was recovered, yet GC, the first neighbors home she ran to says she didn't have a purse with her. I want to know if her money was in the purse that was found.

I am so glad you joined the discussion and if you have any questions, just ask. There are lot's of nice folks around here who will help you out if needed:)

wm
 
Most escort clients use false names and prepaid phones because they want their identity to remain secret. The escorts do the same thing. There is nothing unusual about that, and LE not being able to track the killer by that means is to be expected. It doesn't imply any more or less trust by the escort.

I have allready explained how this guy operates in a way he can't be tracked. He uses a non traceable throw away phone to make the appointments, he meets the escort on neutral ground and then they go somewhere else to do the deed (which unbeknownst to her, is murder). So, no traceable phone call record, no home address, no meeting pimps/drivers/security. This is not an unusal thing in the escort world where protecting privacy and avoiding entrapment by LE is essential, specially in the lower rungs of that world.

The very nature of how the business is done is what allows him to avoid dectection.


Agreed, it will be difficult, but SK's do make errors and mistakes. It is these anomalies that create the leads that often solve these type of cases.

It may take a real cyber-sleuth from law enforcement to break this case. Let us be realistic, what other options do we have?
 
Hi all,

Wow, I have been dying to post here but didn't want to until I was caught up. I have just finally made my way through the all the threads on this LISK. It took me days and days. Phew.

Before I jump into posting I just want to give my opinion on one thing, and ask two questions, if I may.

Wrt JB saying he didn't pay Shannon and that she was only there 45 minutes...well I don't believe his story for a minute. I think he is simply minimising his participation in an illegal activity (hiring an escort). I think she was there the whole three hours and that she did indeed get paid.

My first question - was Shannan's wallet recovered with her belongings? I am curious to see if it had any money in it. My mind is fuzzy after spending most of today (it's quite late at night here in Australia) speeding through the posts. I saw I was getting close to getting through all the threads and read pretty quickly at the end and missed this info.

I have been wondering about her belongings. If she was running around frantically calling for help on the morning she disappeared, did she have her bag with her? If not, well, how did it end up in the middle of nowhere? Somebody had to put it there AFTER she was running around and then disappeared.

My second question - I have seen people talking about her being high that night. I know her family have said she had some cocaine issues, but is there any definitive way of knowing for sure if she was using that night?

Thanks. I look forward to joining in the discussions.

WL

ETA: I just thought of something else that has been bothering me. MG said that CPH, or somebody purporting to be CHP called her the day after SG went missing. Somebody had to have made that call, I just wish I knew whether it was actually the doc or somebody else. MG didn't just pull a name out of her behind when she reported receiving that call. What are the chances she just made up a name of somebody and that name happened to be that of a man who can't make up his mind on whether or not he saw SG the morning she was running around calling for help!

Hi WhiteLilly! You raise a really good question about the wallet. I have also never believed for one second that JB called Shannan to just come over and hang out. He might just be that scummy type of guy who thought that he could get away with not paying her, but I don't buy the "come over and just hang out with me" story he's been trying to tell. He's just trying to whitewash the fact that he hired a prostitute.

I know that there was some report of her jacket lying in either JB or GC's driveway for awhile. Was the purse recovered? Was the wallet in the purse when it was recovered?
 
Sites similar to Craigslist and similar in size and scope tend to track views and specifically the IP addresses of viewers whether they login with an email address or not. So, maybe LE needs to go back to the dates that GB4 went missing and contact the social networking sites where the women placed their ads. If the sites use IP trackers then LE should find a connection.

Shady sites are notorious for tracking views/viewers in order to spam people later.

I wouldn't be surprised if the perp used/uses proxy servers or some other kind of software to disguise his ISP, IMO.

LE should still do what you suggest, though, IMO. You never know, maybe, the perp was sloppy about that kind of stuff.

I was also wondering about the possibility of the perp stealing identities? Maybe he used stolen identities when he book the appointments?

Anyway, here's a New York Times article that discusses what you described Just K:

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/...s-online.html?_r=1&ref=longislandserialkiller
 
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