NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

[WINDSOR]

I do not know a lot about autopsy's other than what I have seen on TV. But it appears the time delay for the release of SG's results has meaning in itself.

1) We can assume that it was given high priority by all parties.
2) Everybody in LE wants to get it 'right' so there is no ammunition for the defence in a high profile court case. The results have to be unequivocal.
3) The delay to me implies that there is conflicting or ambiguous results, details or information.
4) Worst possible result for LE would be 'indeterminate or unknown causes'.
5) If the SK is as smart as I think, and he did dispose of SG's body after he had it a while, likely he took every step possible to confuse and conflict LE and point away from his culpability.
6) In my opinion if it was death by natural causes the report would be out by now.

Anybody know what is going on?

 

[SmoothOperator]

Do you really think that CPH said that he's both a police officer AND runs a rehab? *Or do you think its more likely that he said that he used to work for the Suffolk County police department? *Impersonating an officer can get you arrested. *Just because Mari said he said he was a police officer does not mean that that was actually what he said. *Take her statements with a grain of salt because she had a theory (just like we all do) and she had the megaphone of the mass media.

Nope, I do not know what was said in those calls(nor do you unless you happen to be one of the parties on either end of the phone line).. I don't claim that anyone stated anything but rather I pointed out just another of the many, many "coincidences" that are at play in this case.. While I definitely believe that coincidences very much do arise throughout life, however when there are multitudes of "coincidences" involved in/around any situation, specifically one concerning homicide investigations the multitude of coincidences(especially when those numerous coincidences are *explained away* with these downloadable softwares and now a self-sufficient computer software designer with the ultimate of illegal spyware) it becomes OBVIOUS that's just not realistic and any investigator worth his salt would tell you it's simply not true and therefor many, many of the "coincidences" involved in a homicide case are in fact NOT COINCIDENCES AT ALL..

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Nope, I do not know what was said in those calls(nor do you unless you happen to be one of the parties on either end of the phone line).. I don't claim that anyone stated anything but rather I pointed out just another of the many, many "coincidences" that are at play in this case.. While I definitely believe that coincidences very much do arise throughout life, however when there are multitudes of "coincidences" involved in/around any situation, specifically one concerning homicide investigations the multitude of coincidences(especially when those numerous coincidences are *explained away* with these downloadable softwares and now a self-sufficient computer software designer with the ultimate of illegal spyware) it becomes OBVIOUS that's just not realistic and any investigator worth his salt would tell you it's simply not true and therefor many, many of the "coincidences" involved in a homicide case are in fact NOT COINCIDENCES AT ALL..

I thought you might find the following article educational. It's about Fred Bacalagan, who was a special agent supervisor at the Department of Justice specializing in cybercrime who's emails were hacked by Anonymous. The emails that were hacked/cracked contain thousands of correspondences between Bacalagan and the International Association of Computer Investigative Specialists (IACIS) spanning 6 years. The emails are basically a how-to of “black hat” hacking/cracking. It will give you an idea of what hacking/cracking is all about and how it can be done. If you already know all about hacking/cracking, disregard this post.

Warning: The file is big (yep, it's a download, your favorite) and the reading is dense.

Here is the link:

http://gawker.com/5861023/anonymous-leaks-another-computer-experts-personal-emails


International Association of Computer Investigative Specialists
https://www.iacis.com/

 

[truthspider]

Do you really think that CPH said that he's both a police officer AND runs a rehab? Or do you think its more likely that he said that he used to work for the Suffolk County police department? Impersonating an officer can get you arrested. Just because Mari said he said he was a police officer does not mean that that was actually what he said. Take her statements with a grain of salt because she had a theory (just like we all do) and she had the megaphone of the mass media.

I think you are right IG, I thinks it more likely that he said that he used to work for the suffolk county police deptartment and that he runs a rehab. I don't think that he would claim to be a police officer. Hey, but doesn't that mean cph made that first call?

 

[truthspider]

Yawn, my eyez getting lazy, time to hit the hay. Sooo tired, time for cpcp.

 

[truthspider]

I thought you might find the following article educational. It's about Fred Bacalagan, who was a special agent supervisor at the Department of Justice specializing in cybercrime who's emails were hacked by Anonymous. The emails that were hacked/cracked contain thousands of correspondences between Bacalagan and the International Association of Computer Investigative Specialists (IACIS) spanning 6 years. The emails are basically a how-to of “black hat” hacking/cracking. It will give you an idea of what hacking/cracking is all about and how it can be done. If you already know all about hacking/cracking, disregard this post.

Warning: The file is big (yep, it's a download, your favorite) and the reading is dense.

Here is the link:

http://gawker.com/5861023/anonymous-leaks-another-computer-experts-personal-emails

Rise and shine, thursday is here.... Correct me if im wrong, (like u needed me to say that) what do emails have to do with this case? Has there been mention of 1 single email in this investigation? Even if emails were sent to and fro via craigslist, which I think everyone is correctly assuming didn't happen, the buyer and seller wouldn't know each others email addresses because craigslist renders users anonymous. I do not see how crackin anyone's email could possibly come into play.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Rise and shine, thursday is here.... Correct me if im wrong, (like u needed me to say that) what do emails have to do with this case? Has there been mention of 1 single email in this investigation? Even if emails were sent to and fro via craigslist, which I think everyone is correctly assuming didn't happen, the buyer and seller wouldn't know each others email addresses because craigslist renders users anonymous. I do not see how crackin anyone's email could possibly come into play.

If you had downloaded and read the content referred to in my post, you wouldn't have asked that question.

I was really hoping that with your background as a software designer, you would offer a more constructive critique of my theory. For some reason, that has never happened. Clearly, I was asking too much as you seem to resort to hyperbole rather than logic.

It might be better if, in the future, you ignore all my posts regarding computer/hacking. They really seem to bother you for some reason.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Great info about hackin/cracking into important emails.. Not sure how it pertains to anything here.. I'm not going to get sidetracked onto these irrelevant subjects that arise such as this one.. No one is saying that hacking doesn't exist(tho still hacking email downloads don't pertain to my point).. My point is that sure you can dig up and find some elusive technological answer for every coincidence and very real issues that exist within these cases(or when the downloads become literal lists of them just switch to the perp's a computer software genius and doesn't really need the webs downloaded versions he'll just create his own).. Anyone can dig up or just create "reasons", excuses, or "truths" to attempt to prove the coincidences are meaningless or even that they just simply do not exist.. My point is they do exist and they're not just easily explained away with these "answers" googled up on the Internet, or just created/fabricated.. It doesn't work like that and as I said any investigator would tell you that especially in/around a homicide investigation rarely ever are there coincidences, ESPECIALLY NOT AN ENTIRE PLETHORA OF THEM AS THERE ARE HERE RELATING TO THIS CASE..

 

[Reannan]

First, I want to say that I value the post of everyone on this forum. Next, I want to give a shout-out to everyone about our reason for being here - the victims and justice. Please put differences aside and get back on the same page. Please keep digging, and posting your theories -they are all valid. WS's is great because of our diverse posters and their backgrounds.. Please everyone, keep posting your theories and your research findings, but please respect the rights of our fellow posters. Stepping down from my soap box now. Love you all!

 

[scandi]

That's one hell of a point you bring up there, Oriah! Details of how Shannan was found are pretty sketchy (at least from articles that I've read). I'll spend some time today seeing if I can piece the details together, because things as they stand now in my mind absolutely do NOT match up.

I know that Officer Malia is K9. Don't know what training they receive. In fact, I don't know for a fact that he and Blue were the ones who actually located Shannan. Other posters might have read that via msm, but I haven't. I do know that he's the one who found the other 4 other girls while searching for Shannan, so in my mind, if he's also the one who found Shannan...well, I'd have to conclude that that was a VERY odd coincidence. LI only has one superhero K9 officer? I dunno...strange.

Quick question: IF Shannan did drown in this marshy area over a year prior to her discovery, how likely is it that a dog would be able to track her? Would it depend on the dog's training? A year submerged in water (on and off)...how would that affect the dogs ability to scent?[/quote]

IMO, there's no way she could have been tracked or trailed at that point. A HRD dog, if brought to the general 'correct' vicinity could be very effective. It would have to be a well trained pup, that's for sure. Would absolutely depend on training.

In that photo of the officers with Shannan's skeleton we were able to make out the shape of the skeleton - pretty much. And it could have been a better photo where we would have seen more.

I just think if her skeleton had been there from the time she went missing till she was found small animals would have time to scatter her bones all over that acreage. I think if she were there at any point a HRD would have sniffed her out - that is if LE had her scent? Did they, anyone know? The jacket?


Oriah, I like the fact you qualify a dog by it's training as they are not all equal from what I've read. http://eddieandkeela.blogspot.com/ :seeya:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Something interesting to take into account:

LE took MBB's computer for analysis

They had access to the computers and cell phones of AC & her roommate, DS

They Have ACruz's computer (MW's BF/pimp)

Most likely they have had access to both MB and her BF/Pimp, Terry's computer and his cell phone records...

So, LE has a record of the sites used for the last escort/date postings of each of these women. They could request the site managers turn over the history for views of each of those pages re: the hours and day before the women went missing or back to the first day of each post. There absolutely has to be a common denominator.

BBM

I'm telling you...CT cops lied about retrieving Maureen's computer from the hotel room. Again, I can't provide a msm link because I didn't obtain that info via msm, BUT...I can provide msm links that back up this info.

1. Maureen had already checked out of her hotel room when she went missing.
2. Maureen called friends to have them refresh her CL ads for her. (Why would she need to do that if she carried her laptop with her?)
3. Maureen's brother-in-law and her brother travelled to NYC to look for Maureen themselves because LE wouldn't act.
4. It was Maureen's sister, Melissa, who retrieved all of Maureen's emails, texts and phone records, not LE.

If CT cops did retrieve her laptop from the hotel room, as msm have stated, how were they able to get it weeks after M had checked out? How come Melissa had to retrieve Maureen's personal info herself and give it to LE...wouldn't they already have had that info if they had the computer? And if Maureen did have her laptop with her, why would she call friends to refresh her ads, and then leave an expensive laptop in her hotel room AFTER she had already checked out?

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/index2.html

 

[truthspider]

The longislandserialkiller.com site just posted an interesting idea utilizing email to share the description of one of the Jane Doe's with people who live on Long Island.

http://longislandserialkiller.com/2012/01/hello-friends/

I'll try and explain this concept...if one person sends an email to ten people, and then 5 of those people forward the email to ten people, then 5 of those people forward the email... you will achieve an exponential growth rate. :crazy: Kind of like a chain letter except nothing bad will happen to you if you don't forward it, mostly because I don't believe in superstition. In truth, terrible things may actually happen to you, but they will not be a result of breaking an email chain.

The idea seems to be that if this is done amongst people that live on Long Island, and forwarded to other Long Island residents (past or present), then pretty quickly most people on Long Island with email will have received it. There is a good chance that there are at least a handful of LI residents who would remember this woman if her uniquely identifying characteristics are described to them.

Here is the email that LI residents are supposed to forward to their LI friends:

Hello Friends,

By this time all of you have heard about the "Long Island Serial Killer",
well you don't need to know anything about the case in order to help solve
it, you simply have to forward this Unidentified Person Report to your friends
that live on this island or lived here in the mid 1990's. When you share
this email with other Island residents you will be contributing to the
rapid exponential growth of this report. This Unidentified Person report
should reach the majority of Long Island residents in a matter of a few
days. Someone on this island will remember this woman from 1995, most
likely from the operation on her ankles and the scars on her legs, possibly
a nurse, doctor, social worker, rehabilitation therapist, or just a friend.

"Police investigating the case said they hope that scars on the body will
help in the identification. The legs were found with the toes of both feet
painted with red nail polish. Both legs show healed surgical scars at the
ankles. In addition, according to police, the right leg has a 3 1/2 inch
scar on the posterior calf muscle and an "L" shaped scar on the shin. The
left leg has a similar 3 1/2 inch scar on the inner side of the calf muscle.
Homicide detectives are seeking help in identifying the victim in this
case. Any one who recognizes the scar pattern or has any other information
that would assist police in making a positive identification is asked to
call the Suffolk Homicide Squad at 631-852-6396 (Homicide),
1-800-220-TIPS (anonymous tip)"

the full unidentified persons report can be viewed here:
https://identifyus.org/cases/9098

please share this with your friends on Long Island,

your name here

the LISK should be hearing Jaws theme music in his head right about ......now

 

[dcgrumpy]

Were any of the identified victims from LI?

 

[truthspider]

Were any of the identified victims from LI?

We have to define victim first, only identified are the G4, and Jessica Taylor.
So any and all victims prior to using craigslist in 2007, were not identified except JT. JT was from upstate NY, came to NYC via DC and was living in Brooklyn.

If you want to circulate the email outside of Long Island I think that is great too.

I think this first (known) victim likely had a relationship to the sk (Paraphilia). He went to great lengths to hide this victims identity: the torso has never been found and both legs were removed and discarded separately from the head. He may have done this because the scars and surgery on the legs would help identify the victim.

 

[inspctrgadget]

We have to define victim first, only identified are the G4, and Jessica Taylor.
So any and all victims prior to using craigslist in 2007, were not identified except JT. JT was from upstate NY, came to NYC via DC and was living in Brooklyn.

If you want to circulate the email outside of Long Island I think that is great too.

I think this first (known) victim likely had a relationship to the sk. He went to great lengths to hide this victims identity: the torso has never been found and both legs were removed and discarded separately from the head. He may have done this because the scars and surgery on the legs would help identify the victim.

I would also concentrate on anybody that was a health care worker in health clinics in Queens, specifically any that may have worked with prostitutes working Jamaica Avenue between 198th Street and Francis Lewis Boulevard.

Maybe even re-interview the 3 women from Hollis, Queens and see if they recognize her.

See here:
http://nyca.vlex.com/vid/robert-shulman-vs-the-people-321956

These scars may come from binge injecting crack cocaine into the femoral artery (not surgery). I've discussed this in a previous post on Robert Shulman.

 

[truthspider]

These scars may come from binge injecting crack cocaine into the femoral artery (not surgery). I've discussed this in a previous post on Robert Shulman.

The medical examiner specifically noted "suture scars" so why are you saying "not surgery"? I don't think binge injecting crack makes any sense, where as it should be clear to all that the victim had undergone surgery on her legs. <modsnip>?

"The left leg has a 2" surgical scar with adjacent suture scars on the medial left ankle. "
- https://identifyus.org/cases/9098

suture /su·ture/ (soo´cher) - a stitch or series of stitches made to secure apposition of the edges of a surgical or traumatic wound.

 

[Just K]

BBM

I'm telling you...CT cops lied about retrieving Maureen's computer from the hotel room. Again, I can't provide a msm link because I didn't obtain that info via msm, BUT...I can provide msm links that back up this info.

1. Maureen had already checked out of her hotel room when she went missing.
2. Maureen called friends to have them refresh her CL ads for her. (Why would she need to do that if she carried her laptop with her?)
3. Maureen's brother-in-law and her brother traveled to NYC to look for Maureen themselves because LE wouldn't act.
4. It was Maureen's sister, Melissa, who retrieved all of Maureen's emails, texts and phone records, not LE.

If CT cops did retrieve her laptop from the hotel room, as msm have stated, how were they able to get it weeks after M had checked out? How come Melissa had to retrieve Maureen's personal info herself and give it to LE...wouldn't they already have had that info if they had the computer? And if Maureen did have her laptop with her, why would she call friends to refresh her ads, and then leave an expensive laptop in her hotel room AFTER she had already checked out?

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/index2.html

Just because she checked out of her room doesn't mean that she didn't leave items at the hotel when she went on the out calls...thinking she would retrieve them before she headed back to Connecticut. She may have left her bags with the friends or with the Porter's office.

This is a very common thing to do in NYC. One must check out by a certain time but either still has plans in and around the City or doesn't have transportation, out of the city, lined up until later in the day. Hotels provide the service to clients who don't want to cart their luggage all over the city. When finished with the days activities, one just goes back to the hotel, retrieves their items from the Porter and heads to the train, plane, whatever.

It was my understanding that Maureen might have left her things with the friends. Perhaps Conn LE got the Laptop from them, once they were back in Conn and LE then went to NYC to interview people at the Hotel. MSM, often lumps things up when they are actually two very separate and distinct acts.
ie: Conn LE went to NYC, interviewed the staff and MBB's friends and retrieved her laptop computer. (That statement may be true except that a lazy reporter might not have gone into detail as re: chronology.)

Perhaps the actual case was more like this: LE in Connecticut traveled to NYC to interview staff at a hotel near Times Square. In the days before her disappearance, MBB was known to have traveled, with a few friends, to NYC where she checked into a hotel and made/met a few "dates." Upon checking out she left her belongings. Where & With Whom she left her belongings; in her room, with the friends in their room or with the Porter's Office, we don't know. But LE says that they retrieved her computer and other personal items.

Now, that would not have left us assuming that LE might be lying. We would just know that they got MBB"s items but not know from exactly where, when or from whom.

Or, maybe she had not checked out and just like in MW's case her personal items were left in the room and the hotel stored them where they keep items left behind. This was what came through in the news reports that I read. Perhaps her sister is quoted as explaining it all in depth. I just haven't seen that.

 

[Just K]

Here are two possible scenarios that might cause a person prone to violence to kill this Jane Doe (Fire Island & JFK Mem Sanctuary.)

Scenario 1
Jane Doe is the victim of a horrible vehicular accident. Someone with her or on the scene tried to heroically excavate her from the vehicle. Doing such, the hero/helper caused more serious damage to her legs. Perhaps Jane Doe was planning on a civil suit against said helper. (Motive: Protecting his/her Social or Professional Reputation.)

Scenario 2
Jane Doe was involved in an accident and directly responsible for serious injury to the person who would later kill her. (Motive: Revenge.)

There are so many possibilities...but it does seem like there was an established connection, on a more personal level, between this Jane Doe and her killer. JMO/IMO/IMHO...

Oops, Scenario 3...which keeps popping up in my head.
Jane Doe was a prostitute and she was injured or involved in an accident while trying to escape a violent client. The client knew that she might be able to identify him so he tracked her down and killed her.

 

[inspctrgadget]

The medical examiner specifically noted "suture scars" so why are you saying "not surgery"? I don't think binge injecting crack makes any sense, where as it should be clear to all that the victim had undergone surgery on her legs. <modsnip>?

"The left leg has a 2" surgical scar with adjacent suture scars on the medial left ankle. "
- https://identifyus.org/cases/9098

suture /su·ture/ (soo´cher) - a stitch or series of stitches made to secure apposition of the edges of a surgical or traumatic wound.

<modsnip>.

No man, I'm pointing out that:
- the right leg had 8.8 centimetre scar on the rear calf and L-shaped scar on the shin. The left leg had a 8.8cm scar on the inner side.

As you mentioned (which I was unaware of), she also had:
- scars on her right leg and a surgical scar with suture marks on her left ankle.


I also said that in "may be possible". I'm not sure about anything.

But my much bigger point was that her manner of disposal was almost identical to Robert Shulman's manner of disposal. And in that case, we know he had a habit of picking up prostitutes on Jamaica Ave in Queens. It was merely a suggestion that she acquired these scars from injecting crack cocaine, which might be consistent with the types of women that Robert Shulman hung out with. I previously linked to an article that described the prevalence of this practice among prostitutes, and how it frequently leads to leg ulceration in a young women. Leg ulceration, by the way, may be treated with sutures.

 

[truthspider]

Here are two possible scenarios that might cause a person prone to violence to kill this Jane Doe (Fire Island & JFK Mem Sanctuary.)

Scenario 1
Jane Doe is the victim of a horrible vehicular accident. Someone with her or on the scene tried to heroically excavate her from the vehicle. Doing such, the hero/helper caused more serious damage to her legs. Perhaps Jane Doe was planning on a civil suit against said helper. (Motive: Protecting his/her Social or Professional Reputation.)

Scenario 2
Jane Doe was involved in an accident and directly responsible for serious injury to the person who would later kill her. (Motive: Revenge.)

There are so many possibilities...but it does seem like there was an established connection, on a more personal level, between this Jane Doe and her killer. JMO/IMO/IMHO...

Oops, Scenario 3...which keeps popping up in my head.
Jane Doe was a prostitute and she was injured or involved in an accident while trying to escape a violent client. The client knew that she might be able to identify him so he tracked her down and killed her.

scenario 4 - the SK has a paraphilia in which he was attracted to the helplessness of this victim or her physical/medical circumstances... (we do know the SK has cut off lots of limbs of victims, maybe that is part of his paraphilia.

scenario 5 - The SK held this victim somewhere for an extended period of time and injured her legs himself, before eventually cutting her legs off as part of his paraphilia, specifically Acrotomophilia.




paraphilia - a biomedical term used to describe sexual arousal to objects, situations, or individuals that are not part of normative stimulation and that may cause distress or serious problems for the paraphiliac or persons associated with him or her. A paraphilia involves sexual arousal and gratification towards sexual behavior that is atypical or extreme.

Acrotomophilia - (from the Greek akron [extremity], tomein [to cut] and philein [to love]), refers to a paraphilia in which an individual expresses strong sexual interest in amputees