NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

[jimmydo]

The problem is that the police ALSO had the 911 call where she came across as rambling and incoherent. Given that, they would have been looking for just another someone running around town either drunk or high, not for a potential murder victim. When they did not find her the most reasonable explanation for them at the time would have been that she simply moved on. That happens ALL the time for police officers, babysitting drunk/stoned people accounts for a big chunk of their time. They simply dont have time or resources to launch major manhunts every time there is a report of someone acting wierd, if they did that is all they would ever do. It would not have seemed exceptionally unusual to them. There was no reason to think that she was dead somewhere or had been murdered, they did not know that she was missing until much much later.

To say SG "came across as rambling and incoherent' is pure speculation, based on the stories of the very same persons of interest on the scene. Those stories seem to have taken on a life of their own, and superseded what SG herself told 911. The first responders should have taken any and all such statements with a grain of salt, at least until SG was found. Those statements should have been looked at for what they were: a cover story to explain why SG called 911. Therefore, any statements about SG being 'rambling and incoherent' should be taken VERY skeptically, in light of the victim's own words "They're trying to kill me".

BTW: I DO NOT buy the 'drug induced panic theory'. Most people who are chronic drug/alcohol users can still function quite well under the influence. I guess it doesn't need to be pointed out that SG had the presence of mind to determine she faced a grave threat to her life, and it turns out that she was 100% correct about that threat.

Who said anything about launching a major manhunt?
You are misconstruing what I actually said: unless and until SG was found alive, I would have been more dismissive of the alleged 'rambling and incoherent' condition than I would about SG's own statement of "they're trying to kill me", and if I were the first responding detective/officer I would have detained the key people and intensively questioned them at HQ, recording the entire process. I would have considered what everyone had said, but I certainly would be far more concerned about the possibility of someone being killed as opposed to being intoxicated. Death is PERMANENT, being intoxicated and lost is temporary. Therefore, one carries more weight than the other.

Obviously, the SCPD were both quick and oh so willing to dismiss SG's words in favor of the words of those who were personally involved with the events that fateful night.

 

[jimmydo]

Note to self:
Let's not overlook the fact that extreme terror can also induce symptoms identical to intoxication.

Is it any wonder SG seemed disoriented, rambling, and incoherent when she's all alone in a strange place, facing her own demise, and trying to manage crying out for help and giving directions to the police, as well as do all she can to extract herself from the threatening situation and save herself?

 

[jimmydo]

One of if not the BIGGEST reasons this case has not been solved is due to the fact that those with inside knowledge of what is actually going on continually obfuscate the facts and events.

NO ONE should be off limits when investigating this case. Especially friends, family and coworkers/business associates of the known key players in Oak Beach. Until an arrest is made, ANYONE IN OAK BEACH SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A SUSPECT, AND TREATED AS SUCH.

It is NOT an accident the known key players have come to be associated with SG's demise, and neither is it an accident that SG came to be in Oak Beach, and it's certainly no accident that Oak Beach is where SG met her demise. Whether these persons interjected themselves or the natural suspicion falls on them due to first hand involvement, they cannot and should not be above scrutiny.

NO WAY!!!

 

[jimmydo]

"...a party that HE WAS HOSTING ???

The word 'he' doesn't reference GC, it references MP.
MP is the 'he' being referred to.

 

[jimmydo]

ACCORDING TO THAT CLIP THE TAPE WAS ACCIDENTALLY ERASED?

IMO, whether the video was erased or taped over accidentally pales when we consider the fact that the SCPD failed to secure the video the morning of May 1st. It's not like one needs to be the smartest person on Earth to notice the 4, yes FOUR video cameras recording at/near the entrance of Oak Beach gated community. Neither does one need to be the most intelligent person on Earth to secure the video recording for it's evidentiary value. That choice should be a no brainer.

Of course, whether the video was intentionally erased or accidentally taped over (ie: a 2-week video loop) does speak to someone having an ulterior motive. The fact of the matter is that SCPD should have the video footage in their possession.

 

[WINDSOR]

Right on! jimmydo.

Too many posters are trying to make SG the author of her own mis-fortune.

We got: drugs, pimps, johns, witnesses galore, 911 phone calls, videos, eye witnesses, money, and sex.

Nobody saw anything or anybody or heard anything that was criminal in nature.

LE have no POI, they do not officially believe a crime took place

But we have a dead woman.

When is the FBI going to take over this case, because it appears the locals never cared. JMO

 

[jimmydo]

He clearly has a bad memory.... :tsktsk:

Of course, it could be bad memory.
Then again...the discrepant times could mean something far more sinister.

Until the SCPD arrived on the scene at 6:03am on may 1st, what and when GC did before that time is purely a matter of conjecture and speculation.

It's my suspicion that GC also has an ulterior motive for wanting the video to be kept secret. That video may have shown that GC was not where he said he was, doing what he said he did, at the time he claims.

After all, there seems to be at least a 45 minute window of time that cannot be minimized or overlooked.

 

[Lilmiss_cantbwrong]

One of if not the BIGGEST reasons this case has not been solved is due to the fact that those with inside knowledge of what is actually going on continually obfuscate the facts and events.

NO ONE should be off limits when investigating this case. Especially friends, family and coworkers/business associates of the known key players in Oak Beach. Until an arrest is made, ANYONE IN OAK BEACH SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A SUSPECT, AND TREATED AS SUCH.

It is NOT an accident the known key players have come to be associated with SG's demise, and neither is it an accident that SG came to be in Oak Beach, and it's certainly no accident that Oak Beach is where SG met her demise. Whether these persons interjected themselves or the natural suspicion falls on them due to first hand involvement, they cannot and should not be above scrutiny.

NO WAY!!!

:thumb:

 

[Lilmiss_cantbwrong]

Of course, it could be bad memory.
Then again...the discrepant times could mean something far more sinister.

Until the SCPD arrived on the scene at 6:03am on may 1st, what and when GC did before that time is purely a matter of conjecture and speculation.

It's my suspicion that GC also has an ulterior motive for wanting the video to be kept secret. That video may have shown that GC was not where he said he was, doing what he said he did, at the time he claims.

After all, there seems to be at least a 45 minute window of time that cannot be minimized or overlooked.

I never said that he was innocent, and honestly, I do not exactly how I feel about him being as I first off don't believe he opened the door for her.... not even like 2% of me thinks so... but I do think that if he would have opened the door he could have probably saved her. I also agree though that being so early in the morning, and being an old man, maybe he thought it was a setup and didn't want to endanger himself in the process of "helping" someone.

 

[dc20015]

To say SG "came across as rambling and incoherent' is pure speculation, based on the stories of the very same persons of interest on the scene. Those stories seem to have taken on a life of their own, and superseded what SG herself told 911. The first responders should have taken any and all such statements with a grain of salt, at least until SG was found. Those statements should have been looked at for what they were: a cover story to explain why SG called 911. Therefore, any statements about SG being 'rambling and incoherent' should be taken VERY skeptically, in light of the victim's own words "They're trying to kill me".

BTW: I DO NOT buy the 'drug induced panic theory'. Most people who are chronic drug/alcohol users can still function quite well under the influence. I guess it doesn't need to be pointed out that SG had the presence of mind to determine she faced a grave threat to her life, and it turns out that she was 100% correct about that threat.

Who said anything about launching a major manhunt?
You are misconstruing what I actually said: unless and until SG was found alive, I would have been more dismissive of the alleged 'rambling and incoherent' condition than I would about SG's own statement of "they're trying to kill me", and if I were the first responding detective/officer I would have detained the key people and intensively questioned them at HQ, recording the entire process. I would have considered what everyone had said, but I certainly would be far more concerned about the possibility of someone being killed as opposed to being intoxicated. Death is PERMANENT, being intoxicated and lost is temporary. Therefore, one carries more weight than the other.

Obviously, the SCPD were both quick and oh so willing to dismiss SG's words in favor of the words of those who were personally involved with the events that fateful night.

Just a note, I agree that a drug panic under most drugs would be unlikely. She probably would've had to do a truckload of a stimulant or alcohol to make her totally delusional. Opiates generally don't cause those issues. If she did a heavy hallucinogen such as LSD, though, those can often make people freak out, especially in an uncomfortable or unusual environment. I'm not saying this is what I think happened. Its just a note. Not all drugs are equal or chronically used.

 

[MrsPC]

Just a note, I agree that a drug panic under most drugs would be unlikely. She probably would've had to do a truckload of a stimulant or alcohol to make her totally delusional. Opiates generally don't cause those issues. If she did a heavy hallucinogen such as LSD, though, those can often make people freak out, especially in an uncomfortable or unusual environment. I'm not saying this is what I think happened. Its just a note. Not all drugs are equal or chronically used.

I did my fair share of drugs way back in the early 70's...including LSD and it never made me want to shuck my pants...lol

 

[dc20015]

I did my fair share of drugs way back in the early 70's...including LSD and it never made me want to shuck my pants...lol

Believe me, I've done just about everything myself and my experience has been the same (although I hated hallucinogens and did find them uncomfortable), but from my experience being around drug users, the most likely drug group to make people just wig out out of the blue is that category.

And I am very clear about not assuming I know what happened, but I do admit to believing she probably met with foul play and that I think the whole undressing here and dying down yonder explanation stretches believability.

 

[Reannan]

Believe me, I've done just about everything myself and my experience has been the same (although I hated hallucinogens and did find them uncomfortable), but from my experience being around drug users, the most likely drug group to make people just wig out out of the blue is that category.

And I am very clear about not assuming I know what happened, but I do admit to believing she probably met with foul play and that I think the whole undressing here and dying down yonder explanation stretches believability.

I agree... I would have found it a lot more believable that SG ran away and accidentally drowned, if she had been found in close proximity to her jeans. The idea of her taking off her jeans, dropping her purse, AND her cell phone and then running through thick brambles that would have scratched the HECK out of her legs, only to land in a random deep pool or water close to the road and drown is just ridiculous! :waitasec:

 

[Reannan]

At least there is one reporter who wants to keep this case in the media:

Chelsea Hoffman:
http:///viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981054499



"http://www.michellesigona.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/SERIAL-KLLER.pngA detective submitted a "letter to the editor" to Newsday.com in response to Shannan Gilbert's mother and her criticism of the Suffolk County Police. It seems that this detective is convinced that the Suffolk County Police are doing their jobs properly. "

....

"Wrong, these women are human beings and the public needs to be aware of this perp's alleged profile. What if someone is married to this guy, unaware of his goings-on? "

 

[truthspider]

Right on! jimmydo.

Too many posters are trying to make SG the author of her own mis-fortune.

yes we do, and it's pretty offensive isn't it?

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

I have a question......that doesn't make sense to me.

Shannan was on the 911 call for 23 minutes TO the police -- looking for HELP from the police..... and it would make sense that she would be on the phone with 911 until they - arrived....

so why- was the call ended? was the phone HUNG UP on her? did someone grab her phone and disconnect her from the 911 call? how did it end up that she didn't meet up with the police - since they were on their way to Oak Beach?

Once GC called and/or BB - wouldn't the police dispatcher on 911 say to Shannan - listen dear - help is on the way - hang on - we're coming to help you... hang on there dear.

wouldnt they say something like that to Shannan and let her know the police were on their way?

We know she called 911 - but how was the phone disconnected from 911? After 23 minutes - of Shannan calling for help? did someone catch up to her and snatch the phone out of her hand?

Does anyone know?

 

[nugzter]

I did my fair share of drugs way back in the early 70's...including LSD and it never made me want to shuck my pants...lol

Heck, I drink 7 vodka redbulls and I am nekid before you can blink an eye.:rocker:

 

[inspctrgadget]

Believe me, I've done just about everything myself and my experience has been the same (although I hated hallucinogens and did find them uncomfortable), but from my experience being around drug users, the most likely drug group to make people just wig out out of the blue is that category.

And I am very clear about not assuming I know what happened, but I do admit to believing she probably met with foul play and that I think the whole undressing here and dying down yonder explanation stretches believability.

And we know she was into ecstasy. The drug has been known to be sold in pill form mixed with ecstasy or amphetamine and sold as ecstasy.

She most definitely could have picked up a bunk pill and had a bad trip.

But Pak apparently told police that she freaked out and left clients' houses like this frequently. So she was apparently quite volatile and unpredictable. I guess I somewhat disagree that it stretches believability. Why she took her pants off? Here's some believable explanations:

1) they were covered in muck/ruined
2) she was tripping on acid
3) she had hypothermia from wandering around for an hour in the wet marsh and began feeling warm, which is common for hypothermia victims.
4) she was struggling in the muck and having a difficult time trying to make forward progress, like the police were. She felt she would have an easier time ditching the pants, purse, phone, etc.
5) she had to take a poop and used the pants as toilet paper
6) she was suffering from a manic cycle as part of her bipolar disorder and stripped naked, which seems not abnormal for people with bpd to do.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

Until the medical examiners report gets released - we really don't know how she died.

I sure wish that report would come out - its time now. It's been 6 weeks.

 

[MrsPC]

I have a question......that doesn't make sense to me.

Shannan was on the 911 call for 23 minutes TO the police -- looking for HELP from the police..... and it would make sense that she would be on the phone with 911 until they - arrived....

so why- was the call ended? was the phone HUNG UP on her? did someone grab her phone and disconnect her from the 911 call? how did it end up that she didn't meet up with the police - since they were on their way to Oak Beach?

Once GC called and/or BB - wouldn't the police dispatcher on 911 say to Shannan - listen dear - help is on the way - hang on - we're coming to help you... hang on there dear.

wouldnt they say something like that to Shannan and let her know the police were on their way?

We know she called 911 - but how was the phone disconnected from 911? After 23 minutes - of Shannan calling for help? did someone catch up to her and snatch the phone out of her hand?

Does anyone know?

if only we knew...

we don't know if she even had her phone when she went to Coletti's....for all we know...it could have been left at Brewer's....along with her jeans, etc....