NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

[Dwntwnslim]

I submitted some questions to a WS verified RN and WS moderator, Nursebeemee, regarding the scars on Jane Doe 9098's legs. These are the questions I posed:

“Right lower leg has a 3-1/2" scar on the lateral mid leg area, a 1" linear scar on the lateral mid to lower leg and a 1/2" scar on the medial ankle.
The left leg has a 2" surgical scar with adjacent suture scars on the medial left ankle.”

"My questions are about those scars. It has been theorized by some posters that Jane Doe 9098 was the recipient of a “fasciotomy”. First of all, are you able to tell from the information provided in the above quote if Jane Doe's scars are from surgery at all? If she did have surgery on her legs, was it a fasciotomy? What is a fasciotomy? Why type of doctor would perform a fasciotomy? If the scars are an indicator of another type of surgery, what surgery would that be? What type of doctor would perform that surgery? If the scars are indicators of some other type of event, like injury, what type of event could that be? Finally, is the information provided in the above quote, too little to make any kind of determination?"

I provided Nursebeemee with a link and information to get to Jane Doe 9098's page at NamUs.

*If any of you have any additional questions about the scars on Jane Doe 9098's legs, feel free to PM Nursebemee or any other the other WS vetted health professionals. For the list of WS vetted health professionals, go to the “Sticky Note” section in this forum and click on the on the “Professional Posters” link.

 

[Oriah]

I submitted some questions to a WS verified RN and WS moderator, Nursebeemee, regarding the scars on Jane Doe 9098's legs. These are the questions I posed:

“Right lower leg has a 3-1/2" scar on the lateral mid leg area, a 1" linear scar on the lateral mid to lower leg and a 1/2" scar on the medial ankle.
The left leg has a 2" surgical scar with adjacent suture scars on the medial left ankle.”

"My questions are about those scars. It has been theorized by some posters that Jane Doe 9098 was the recipient of a “fasciotomy”. First of all, are you able to tell from the information provided in the above quote if Jane Doe's scars are from surgery at all? If she did have surgery on her legs, was it a fasciotomy? What is a fasciotomy? Why type of doctor would perform a fasciotomy? If the scars are an indicator of another type of surgery, what surgery would that be? What type of doctor would perform that surgery? If the scars are indicators of some other type of event, like injury, what type of event could that be? Finally, is the information provided in the above quote, too little to make any kind of determination?"

I provided Nursebeemee with a link and information to get to Jane Doe 9098's page at NamUs.

*If any of you have any additional questions about the scars on Jane Doe 9098's legs, feel free to PM Nursebemee or any other the other WS vetted health professionals. For the list of WS vetted health professionals, go to the “Sticky Note” section in this forum and click on the on the “Professional Posters” link.

Not a doc or nurse, and I hope one will get back to us! but this sounds like possibly surgery for compartment syndrome to me? Which might mean injury- or maybe an athlete? or drug abuse? systemic illness?

 

[the quiet girl]

Not a doc or nurse, and I hope one will get back to us! but this sounds like possibly surgery for compartment syndrome to me? Which might mean injury- or maybe an athlete? or drug abuse? systemic illness?

Yep, it is a surgery of the fascia/muscle to relieve muscle tension of sorts. So any injury that would cause that is some possible history of the individual.
Including car accident victim.

 

[truthspider]

I submitted some questions to a WS verified RN and WS moderator, Nursebeemee, regarding the scars on Jane Doe 9098's legs. These are the questions I posed:

“Right lower leg has a 3-1/2" scar on the lateral mid leg area, a 1" linear scar on the lateral mid to lower leg and a 1/2" scar on the medial ankle.
The left leg has a 2" surgical scar with adjacent suture scars on the medial left ankle.”

"My questions are about those scars. It has been theorized by some posters that Jane Doe 9098 was the recipient of a “fasciotomy”. First of all, are you able to tell from the information provided in the above quote if Jane Doe's scars are from surgery at all? If she did have surgery on her legs, was it a fasciotomy? What is a fasciotomy? Why type of doctor would perform a fasciotomy? If the scars are an indicator of another type of surgery, what surgery would that be? What type of doctor would perform that surgery? If the scars are indicators of some other type of event, like injury, what type of event could that be? Finally, is the information provided in the above quote, too little to make any kind of determination?"

I provided Nursebeemee with a link and information to get to Jane Doe 9098's page at NamUs.

*If any of you have any additional questions about the scars on Jane Doe 9098's legs, feel free to PM Nursebemee or any other the other WS vetted health professionals. For the list of WS vetted health professionals, go to the “Sticky Note” section in this forum and click on the on the “Professional Posters” link.

cool thanks, just as a heads up, since the sketch came out and she was added to https://identifyus.org/cases/9098 I have backed off of the fasciotomy assumption because the description of the scars is a little different in this new case file. The term "suture" and "surgical scar" is in there so I don't know of any reason to debate whether or not she had some sort of operation/surgery.


https://identifyus.org/cases/9098

"Right lower leg has a 3-1/2" scar on the lateral mid leg area, a 1" linear scar on the lateral mid to lower leg and a 1/2" scar on the medial ankle. The left leg has a 2" surgical scar with adjacent suture scars on the medial left ankle. "

 

[Theforeigner]

I submitted some questions to a WS verified RN and WS moderator, Nursebeemee, regarding the scars on Jane Doe 9098's legs. These are the questions I posed:

“Right lower leg has a 3-1/2" scar on the lateral mid leg area, a 1" linear scar on the lateral mid to lower leg and a 1/2" scar on the medial ankle.
The left leg has a 2" surgical scar with adjacent suture scars on the medial left ankle.”

"My questions are about those scars. It has been theorized by some posters that Jane Doe 9098 was the recipient of a “fasciotomy”. First of all, are you able to tell from the information provided in the above quote if Jane Doe's scars are from surgery at all? If she did have surgery on her legs, was it a fasciotomy? What is a fasciotomy? Why type of doctor would perform a fasciotomy? If the scars are an indicator of another type of surgery, what surgery would that be? What type of doctor would perform that surgery? If the scars are indicators of some other type of event, like injury, what type of event could that be? Finally, is the information provided in the above quote, too little to make any kind of determination?"

I provided Nursebeemee with a link and information to get to Jane Doe 9098's page at NamUs.

*If any of you have any additional questions about the scars on Jane Doe 9098's legs, feel free to PM Nursebemee or any other the other WS vetted health professionals. For the list of WS vetted health professionals, go to the “Sticky Note” section in this forum and click on the on the “Professional Posters” link.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasciotomy"]Fasciotomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Fasciotomy

Quote:

Indications
Compartment syndrome is one of the conditions where a fasciotomy may be indicated. People who are likely to suffer injuries needing a fasciotomy include the following:

Victims of vehicular accidents or crush injuries
Athletes who have sustained one or more serious impact injuries
People with severe burns
Persons who are severely overweight

 

[Oriah]

cool thanks, just as a heads up, since the sketch came out and she was added to https://identifyus.org/cases/9098 I have backed off of the fasciotomy assumption because the description of the scars is a little different in this new case file. The term "suture" and "surgical scar" is in there so I don't know of any reason to debate whether or not she had some sort of operation/surgery.


https://identifyus.org/cases/9098

"Right lower leg has a 3-1/2" scar on the lateral mid leg area, a 1" linear scar on the lateral mid to lower leg and a 1/2" scar on the medial ankle. The left leg has a 2" surgical scar with adjacent suture scars on the medial left ankle. "

I wonder if it would be possible for the medical examiner to 'age' the scars themselves? Is that where the 15 yrs comes into play?

 

[Dwntwnslim]

What if Jane Doe 9098's scars weren't put there by an actual MD but by a perp playing amateur surgeon?

 

[txsvicki]

Would the medical examiner have noted if the scars were due to a rod being temporarily placed through the leg to fuse crushed bone back together? My husband had that done and the scars sound a little similar to his, but he sure doesn't have any 3.5 inch scars. Fasciotomy is serious. I learned about it in nursing school years ago, but can't remember much. I'm thinking it's sometimes done due to severe systemic infection as a last resort.

 

[the quiet girl]

I wonder if it would be possible for the medical examiner to 'age' the scars themselves? Is that where the 15 yrs comes into play?

That could very well be possible, maybe more for a living person perhaps? The stages of recovery on the scar tissue just may be noted in medical research. idk

edit to add:
bingo!
http://www.springerlink.com/content/gvjgrua3acwu9mk0/

 

[Oriah]

That could very well be possible, maybe more for a living person perhaps? The stages of recovery on the scar tissue just may be noted in medical research. idk

edit to add:
bingo!
http://www.springerlink.com/content/gvjgrua3acwu9mk0/

Thanks, the quiet girl! I wonder if that would be useful in narrowing the time line... and the likely places where this decedent might have had surgery or been hospitalized.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I haven't heard from Nursebeemee yet but, when I do I will post the response verbatim. Would it be helpful if I ask Nursebeemee to pop into the forum to answer questions? Does anyone have any medical questions that don't necessarily pertain to Jane Doe? I could even start a thread for people to post their individual medical questions relating to the case. Thoughts?

 

[truthspider]

I wonder if it would be possible for the medical examiner to 'age' the scars themselves? Is that where the 15 yrs comes into play?

The 15 years is because her severed legs were found in April of 1996.

 

[Oriah]

The 15 years is because her severed legs were found in April of 1996.

Right- that was what I was wondering. So the scars were estimated to be the same age as the remains? Or were the scars already aged when the remains were found? Does that make any sense? I may have missed that somewhere. TIA!

 

[truthspider]

Right- that was what I was wondering. So the scars were estimated to be the same age as the remains? Or were the scars already aged when the remains were found? Does that make any sense? I may have missed that somewhere. TIA!

the file doesn't indicate one way or the other on the age of the scars.

 

[Oriah]

the file doesn't indicate one way or the other on the age of the scars.

So the scars could be much more aged than the remains (such as from an accident or injury/illness at a younger age.) Or they could be recent and possibly concurrent with 1996- is that correct?
It sure seems like having that info might help in an ID! Will dig around looking for possibilities that may match up with newer vs. older procedures.
Thanks.

 

[truthspider]

So the scars could be much more aged than the remains (such as from an accident or injury/illness at a younger age.) Or they could be recent and possibly concurrent with 1996- is that correct?
It sure seems like having that info might help in an ID! Will dig around looking for possibilities that may match up with newer vs. older procedures.
Thanks.

That is correct we don't know if the operation took place in 1995 just prior to her death, or in some car accident in 1986 or 1987. They put her age between 18 and 50, so theoretically it could have been an operation done in the 40's, 50's, 60's ... you get the point.

We really need to find the police report of CPH's traumatic car accident. (This next statement is purely speculative) Maybe she was a passenger in the car with him and was going to sue him?

 

[Oriah]

That is correct we don't know if the operation took place in 1995 just prior to her death, or in some car accident in 1986 or 1987. They put her age between 18 and 50, so theoretically it could have been an operation done in the 40's, 50's, 60's ... you get the point.

We really need to find the police report of CPH's traumatic car accident. (This next statement is purely speculative) Maybe she was a passenger in the car with him and was going to sue him?

I do.
It seems like the injury/surgery would have markers of age from 86' or 87'. I wonder about fixative devices? Is it possible fixative devices were dated? They usually have time or patent stamps- that would be very helpful!

http://share.eldoc.ub.rug.nl/FILES/root2/2007/Compsyanp/Kort_2007_J_Arthroplasty.pdf

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Great pdf, Oriah. Thanks!

According to my research, an arthroplasty would be done by an orthopedic surgeon. I googled "orthopedic surgery" to get the following link. It was the first result:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthopedic_Surgery

An orthopedic surgeon would address the compartment syndrome as well. I googled "compartment syndrome"+"orthopedic surgeon" to arrive at the following link. It was the first result:

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=a00204

A vascular surgeon would of addressed the "popliteal vascular injury". I googled "popliteal vacular injury" to arrive at the following link. It was the first result:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12643860

 

[Just K]

That is correct we don't know if the operation took place in 1995 just prior to her death, or in some car accident in 1986 or 1987. They put her age between 18 and 50, so theoretically it could have been an operation done in the 40's, 50's, 60's ... you get the point.

We really need to find the police report of CPH's traumatic car accident. (This next statement is purely speculative) Maybe she was a passenger in the car with him and was going to sue him?

If it turns out that he has anything to do with her or any of the victims, that would be a good hunch. I'm sure the ME can somewhat date scars. New scars look very different from ten year old scars.

 

[jimmydo]

Here are some excerpts from a link to an articleThen this the video tape camera, there was more then one? I did not know this. The chances of more then one tape being tampered with accidentally seems even more far fetched give me a break.

Seems there are four...yes, FOUR cameras recording at the entrance to Oak Beach.

http://www.news12.com/Login/home_login?articleId=278764&position=1&news_type=news