Shannan G, with drug use and bipolar disorder, would be an interesting challenge for a psychopathic serial killer. He could have stalked her via technology (escort boards, communication w/other Johns, etc), and found it challenging to "get her" even though he had not actually hired her (she refused) as he likely did his prior victims.
NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2
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Reannan
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This article seems to put events that happened to SG in a more logical format than many of the others I have read and has some information I do not recall seeing about the first 4 victims: (BBM)
"At least four of them are known to have used Craigslist to meet clients. Phone records have placed at least two of the women at budget hotels on Long Island, just before they disappeared."
and then this....
"The woman was last seen in May 2010, fleeing from a client in Oak Beach, just a few miles from where the bodies have been found, the New York Post reported.
She cried out to a resident that "they're trying to kill me."
But as soon as the man picked up his phone to dial police, the panicked Ms. Gilbert fled, disappearing into the night.
Later, she called police on her cellphone repeatedly over a 30-minute period. She told them she thought she was on Jones Beach.
But police could not find her because she was actually on a beach several miles east."
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/Police+comb+beach+more+bodies/4565632/story.html
"At least four of them are known to have used Craigslist to meet clients. Phone records have placed at least two of the women at budget hotels on Long Island, just before they disappeared."
and then this....
"The woman was last seen in May 2010, fleeing from a client in Oak Beach, just a few miles from where the bodies have been found, the New York Post reported.
She cried out to a resident that "they're trying to kill me."
But as soon as the man picked up his phone to dial police, the panicked Ms. Gilbert fled, disappearing into the night.
Later, she called police on her cellphone repeatedly over a 30-minute period. She told them she thought she was on Jones Beach.
But police could not find her because she was actually on a beach several miles east."
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/Police+comb+beach+more+bodies/4565632/story.html
minazoe
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but hes got all these girls...right there on the beach ...all of them to fit a type.
young
thin
petite
so if our missing shannon is unrelated
it is easier to parse it out.
but if Shannon is also a victim then its the john or the friend of a john close by.
there is no way to explain a random victim scenario.... unless we can place all of these girls on the street where they can be picked up on a corner or at a bus stop.
then our perp has to have the good luck of finding victims that fit his ideal by "roaming around"...
no no...makes no sense.
young
thin
petite
so if our missing shannon is unrelated
it is easier to parse it out.
but if Shannon is also a victim then its the john or the friend of a john close by.
there is no way to explain a random victim scenario.... unless we can place all of these girls on the street where they can be picked up on a corner or at a bus stop.
then our perp has to have the good luck of finding victims that fit his ideal by "roaming around"...
no no...makes no sense.
stillwatersc
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He may have stalked all of them this way, with no direct internet or phone contact with the victims - to avoid leaving electronic evidence. He may have stalked them for weeks prior to their disappearance. Maybe that is why he is more active in warm weather. It's more comfortable sitting in a car or walking outside at night.
JMO
I wonder if the police have considered that the killer did not drive to the dump location but used a boat. Considering the area and the easy access to the beach from the water, I think that a boat would be logical. Considering that, the person may own a house on the water far away from the beach. I would also surmise it is possible the Gilbert stumbled upon the killer when he was dumping a body. She was captured and her body is at a different location. From a boat, the killer could have dumped the body any where. It looks like there are many remote locations in the area.
I wonder if the police have considered that the killer did not drive to the dump location but used a boat. Considering the area and the easy access to the beach from the water, I think that a boat would be logical. Considering that, the person may own a house on the water far away from the beach. I would also surmise it is possible the Gilbert stumbled upon the killer when he was dumping a body. She was captured and her body is at a different location. From a boat, the killer could have dumped the body any where. It looks like there are many remote locations in the area.
OldSteve
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-504083_162-504083.html?keyword=oak+beach&tag=contentMain;contentBody
sniped:
"It was determined Tuesday that the three most recent sets of remains, which were found on April 4, were not those of New Jersey woman Shannan Gilbert"
So much happening.... not easy to catch up.... not sure if the above been posted...
sniped:
"It was determined Tuesday that the three most recent sets of remains, which were found on April 4, were not those of New Jersey woman Shannan Gilbert"
So much happening.... not easy to catch up.... not sure if the above been posted...
Hmm...interesting. In other words, just grabbing them upon leaving a job?
stillwatersc
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Do we know the jobs were near the beach? Couldn't they have been miles away or anywhere and the killer transported them?
carbuff
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Yes, basically.
carbuff
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The jobs could have been anywhere -- presumably he transported them to the spot.
That highway runs right down the middle of the tourist strip, so it's likely that the majority of the jobs were not very far from it, anyway.
Will be even more difficult then to pare down possible suspects.
LE probably plotting to plant new ads as we post in an attempt to draw him out. Probably won't take the bite.
minazoe
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okay....so maybe it went down like this
Shannon had agreed to meet another John there..unbeknownst to her driver...maybe she was really high and told these guys or guy to meet her over near there cause she was in the hood. Maybe they said they would bring her some drugs and she wanted to ditch her driver for awhile...but then when she got in the car things went haywire and she got away.
maybe it was her John...just a different john...a john who drove there and was going to intercept her from her driver who lost track of Shannon...
maybe she thought she was going to work out a little drug for sex action out of the prying eyes of her driver...and outside of her pimp's control.
there has to be a common thread .
Shannon had agreed to meet another John there..unbeknownst to her driver...maybe she was really high and told these guys or guy to meet her over near there cause she was in the hood. Maybe they said they would bring her some drugs and she wanted to ditch her driver for awhile...but then when she got in the car things went haywire and she got away.
maybe it was her John...just a different john...a john who drove there and was going to intercept her from her driver who lost track of Shannon...
maybe she thought she was going to work out a little drug for sex action out of the prying eyes of her driver...and outside of her pimp's control.
there has to be a common thread .
Sticking with this new theory, maybe Shannan's abduction became complicated for some reason. Like she realized someone was following her at some point or that she was in danger and refused to leave JB's house. JB, the neighbor, and the driver did not see what she was afraid of and chocked her reaction up to a bad drug experience. She ran off and the SK caught up with her. Remember, the driver wasn't exactly looking out for Shannan, by his own statements, he was sleeping and playing video games in the car. Someone could have been lurking around there and he would not have noticed. I know this all sounds far-fetched but the stories from the night Shannan went missing are so strange. I can't get my head around it all.
stillwatersc
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Still makes no sense why she'd run when her driver got to the house. Why not just get in the car with him?
I'm not totally discounting the reports that Shannan appeared to be high on something. She seemed to be afraid of everyone that night. Who is to say there wasn't some actual threat waiting for her outside that just got jumbled in with drug induced paranoid delusions? Obviously SOMETHING happened to Shannan that night, and I think someone caught up with her.
These are just theories, I'm letting my mind run with them. If I'm going with my gut, I believe this case will end up being simpler than it seems right now. I like JB for it, in spite of what LE says and what the papers are reporting.
minazoe
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right , so she's like on her cell running around cause some john of hers out there got her in his car to do some coke or do a trade or quik trick out of her driver's knowledge...but then he tried to take her somewhere or incapacitate her.
maybe she thought she snorted coke or H...but it was angel dust or GHB.
this compunded her terror and dragged on her defenses...I think she had some guy's number in her bag....and now she's dead.
maybe she thought she snorted coke or H...but it was angel dust or GHB.
this compunded her terror and dragged on her defenses...I think she had some guy's number in her bag....and now she's dead.
Could be as simple as the amount and type of drugs she had ingested, combined with SG's bipolar disorder.
I think you're referring to beach replenishment as part of ongoing coastal erosion management programs. Yes, Long Island is monitored for erosion and parts are regularly replenished with new sand. There are many, many different agencies involved at all level of government. Despite the characterization of this area as "desolate", it is on no way "abandoned".
I would expect this park's shoreline and every part of the preserved lands to be regularly inspected, and it's one of the things that's really bothering me that bodies may have been there for years undiscovered during any environmental inspections, grant applications and so on.
I do not know if burlap is used as part of a replenishment program - which is typically just dumping more sand and dredge spoils to build up the shoreline resistance, but it's a good thought.
What I do know is that no work can go ahead without a DEC permit, and the manner and materials in which replenishment has taken place (if any) would be specified in great detail in the permits from County, State, DEC, Army Corps of Engineers etc. Those permits may or may not be available online, but I would think not easily accessed without a FOIL. Given how common burlap is, the gain wouldn't be worth investment of time.
A Report called, "National Assessment of Shoreline Change: Historical
Shoreline Change along the New England and
Mid-Atlantic Coasts" was recently published on Feb 11th and includes the South Shore of Long Island at page 43. I don't know how data was collected to prepare this report, but would be very surprised if it didn't include some form of visual inspection, by air and from the ground which should have uncovered these bodies if they were there since 2007 until recently. http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2010/1118/pdf/of2010-1118.pdf
Just another question mark hanging over the whole sorry story.
On a different note, I woke up today thinking about whether these girls were taken for snuff movies and that's what Shannon stumbled upon. I now feel physically sick and have to step away to get it out of my head.
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