Identified! NY - Manhattan, 'Midtown Jane Doe', WhtFem 16-21, 337UFNY, under concrete, ring w/ 'P McG', Feb'03 Patricia McGlone

[DaisyChains]

In fairness to Lori, who I know to be hard-working and who cares a lot about missing people, I believe that NAMUS is reliant on the local law enforcement offices to keep it up to date. It is simply too big and unwieldy for a couple people to keep up to date, especially since they have no way to force detectives to submit information. Unlike lots of law enforcement folks, she actually took the time to look into the lead and send back feedback that it was not a match. She may not be at liberty to release more than that.

I guess the question is just why the profile rule outs are not updated. It would make it much more efficient for both ourselves and Namus when sending in matches and would avoid redundant matches.

This Jane Doe is so interesting to all of us. Everyone seems very invested myself included. I think we all just want closure, but understand that there are limits to what volunteers and namus can do. Still, updating rule-outs seems like something that would be not very time consuming and very productive. Maybe Barbara will be updated on the rule-outs soon.

 

[Skigirl]

I guess the question is just why the profile rule outs are not updated. It would make it much more efficient for both ourselves and Namus when sending in matches and would avoid redundant matches.

This Jane Doe is so interesting to all of us. Everyone seems very invested myself included. I think we all just want closure, but understand that there are limits to what volunteers and namus can do. Still, updating rule-outs seems like something that would be not very time consuming and very productive. Maybe Barbara will be updated on the rule-outs soon.

Cold cases are, for the most part, cases that people are working on on their own time. Peoples' time is spread thin and they can't always keep everything from falling through the cracks. Perhaps the folks running Namus or local LE agencies are accepting volunteers to help with their backlogged data entry.

 

[DQN]

Lori has been great. She probably doesn't get the updates, when she called local LE about Barbara Bruno at that time they told her she was ruled out.

In 1969 this country spent billions to land men on the moon. Yet to date no sure system in place for the missing and unidentified, I think it's heinous. There is something wrong with this picture. It just doesn't seem important in this country. The numbers on the sites are staggering, yet there has to be 1000's that can be matched with better info. The government should tap more volunteers to work from home. I would spend 4-5 hours a week on it, when I am not working and I am not alone. You never see local LE or anyone looking for help with it.

 

[cvaldez1975]

yep, thanks dump admin....

Oh No funding for DNA has stopped?! Oh that is not good....

 

[madamx]

I came across this I thought I would post it here
http://whoisthisyouknow.blogspot.com/

Exclusions:
Shannon Arif 1977 Tennessee
Sherill Levett 1900 Alabama
Stacy McCall 1974 Missouri
Kimberly McClasky 1966 Illinois
Patricia Schmidt 1964 Virginia
Denise Sheehy 1954 New York
Suzanne Streeter 1973 Missouri
Location: 301 West 46th St, New York New York

 

[CountEveryMoment]

I don't know if it's been recommended or not, but what about Mary Robinson? https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/26000/23

 

[DQN]

I don't know if it's been recommended or not, but what about Mary Robinson? https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/26000/23

Submit it to Namus.....

 

[madamx]

She has the look the stats and time frame fit and Rochester is not so far.. Yes Good Eye CountEveryMoment.. Submit her she sounds good!

I don't know if it's been recommended or not, but what about Mary Robinson? https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/26000/23

 

[WesternArtist]

There have been some very strong recent submissions for Midtown Jane Doe that I am eager to see the outcome of. In looking back through the thread, another potential match originally posted by eileenhawkeye (post #115) that I think is worth looking at more is Tracy Anne King http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/king_tracy.html
She went missing from Hoffman Home, a children's home in Mt. Pleasant Township, PA in 1975. 5'3", 110 lbs, redhead. Since there has been some speculation about the accuracy of time of death based on the clothing label, rat poison, building history, etc. I thought it couldn't hurt to look at this earlier case.

Thank you to Carl for posting the dental photo. I noticed that Midtown Jane Doe's right front tooth is slightly angled and that the corner of it adjacent to her left front tooth hangs down lower than her left front tooth. It's hard to see in the photo but it looks like Tracy might have the same feature. (I flipped the recon so it would be facing the same way as Tracy is in her photo).

 

[DQN]

Here is an interesting post about the ring from Americas Most Wanted John Walsh from Scumhunter.



Post by Scumhunter on May 31, 2014 at 5:26pm

Hey, all of us are random posters on the internet so I can't say anything bad about that. I respectfully disagree with most of those opinions but they are interesting. I think the problem is the victim's time of death was unfortunately a tumultuous time for New York City.

I also feel the victim was a prostitute for a few reasons. Besides what was found on her body, the late 70's and 80's were rife with prostitution in New York City, especially in Times Square which although I don't know the exact apartment location she was found in, was probably close enough. My parents who would sometimes take me and my brother to New Jersey to visit friends and relatives would take side-streets when we came back late at night from the Port Authority to avoid the main ruckus. I hate saying this, but unfortunately there was probably so many prostitutes in the city during that time it might be impossible to identify this victim.

Also, as far as P McG is concerned, it might not have anything to do with the victim's name. I googled PMCG and jewelery and came up with this website:

www.augustadezines.co/Products.html

The description the Jeweler uses has on how she makes her jewelery is very intriguing and might explain the PmcG:

The metal jewelry I make is created from a new medium called Percious Metal Clay, or PMC. In the late 1980's Mitsubishi Materials Corporation was looking for profitable ways to use their mined and recycled precious metals. Precious Metal Clay is composed of precious metal particles (silver, gold, copper, bronze), a non-toxic organic binder and water. The binder allows the metal particles to stay together in a workable clay-like form.
(There is no "clay" in it, that is just a descriptive term for the form the metal is in prior to fireing.) The product is worked like a clay and then fired in a kiln at high temperatures. The heat burns of the binder and the water, the result is a solid metal with characteristics simiular to those of cast precious metal! PMC IS PURE METAL!
PMCS: Silver
PMCC: Cpper
PMCB: Bronze
PMCG: Gold

So if perhaps the victim's ring has to do with this abbreviation, and the artist who made precious metal gold, mentions it comes from the Mitsubishi Materials Corporation in the late 1980's, then it would put the victim's year of death more towards 1987 than 1979.

I'm not sure if it was just Mitsubishi that made these materials, but I'm willing to bet the ring could have possibly been sold in New York's diamond district which although I'm too young to know for sure seemed established in the mid-1980's based on what I could find on internet searches. The main thoroughfare is 47th street between 5th and 6th avenues which is in midtown Manhattan. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how easy it would be to discover a shop that could have possible sold the ring since I'm sure some stores replaced old ones and not all records are available.

 

[shadowdancer]

Here is an interesting post about the ring from Americas Most Wanted John Walsh from Scumhunter.



Post by Scumhunter on May 31, 2014 at 5:26pm

Hey, all of us are random posters on the internet so I can't say anything bad about that. I respectfully disagree with most of those opinions but they are interesting. I think the problem is the victim's time of death was unfortunately a tumultuous time for New York City.

I also feel the victim was a prostitute for a few reasons. Besides what was found on her body, the late 70's and 80's were rife with prostitution in New York City, especially in Times Square which although I don't know the exact apartment location she was found in, was probably close enough. My parents who would sometimes take me and my brother to New Jersey to visit friends and relatives would take side-streets when we came back late at night from the Port Authority to avoid the main ruckus. I hate saying this, but unfortunately there was probably so many prostitutes in the city during that time it might be impossible to identify this victim.

Also, as far as P McG is concerned, it might not have anything to do with the victim's name. I googled PMCG and jewelery and came up with this website:

www.augustadezines.co/Products.html

The description the Jeweler uses has on how she makes her jewelery is very intriguing and might explain the PmcG:

The metal jewelry I make is created from a new medium called Percious Metal Clay, or PMC. In the late 1980's Mitsubishi Materials Corporation was looking for profitable ways to use their mined and recycled precious metals. Precious Metal Clay is composed of precious metal particles (silver, gold, copper, bronze), a non-toxic organic binder and water. The binder allows the metal particles to stay together in a workable clay-like form.
(There is no "clay" in it, that is just a descriptive term for the form the metal is in prior to fireing.) The product is worked like a clay and then fired in a kiln at high temperatures. The heat burns of the binder and the water, the result is a solid metal with characteristics simiular to those of cast precious metal! PMC IS PURE METAL!
PMCS: Silver
PMCC: Cpper
PMCB: Bronze
PMCG: Gold

So if perhaps the victim's ring has to do with this abbreviation, and the artist who made precious metal gold, mentions it comes from the Mitsubishi Materials Corporation in the late 1980's, then it would put the victim's year of death more towards 1987 than 1979.

I'm not sure if it was just Mitsubishi that made these materials, but I'm willing to bet the ring could have possibly been sold in New York's diamond district which although I'm too young to know for sure seemed established in the mid-1980's based on what I could find on internet searches. The main thoroughfare is 47th street between 5th and 6th avenues which is in midtown Manhattan. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how easy it would be to discover a shop that could have possible sold the ring since I'm sure some stores replaced old ones and not all records are available.

Very interesting information on the ring.

I do disagree however that the large amount of prostitutes working in the area may make it impossible to identify this woman (if she was indeed a prostitute).

Behind every single one of those prostitutes was a woman who was somebody's daughter, sister, mother or friend. Somebody knew her, somebody loved her, somebody must be missing her.

 

[dotr]

Don't know if this helps, but..
http://www.pmc-source.ca/

PMC SOURCE CANADA is a Canadian owned company based in the Waterloo region, Ontario.

Refresher
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/337ufny.html

Reconstruction of Victim

Unidentified White Female

• 
  [*]The victim was discovered on February 10, 2003 in Manhattan, New York City, New York
  [*]She was a victim of homicide by strangulation
  [*]Skeletal Remains
  [*]The time of death occurred sometime after 1988

---

Vital Statistics

• 
  [*]Estimated age: 15 - 21 years old. Several of her teeth and bones had not reached full maturity, suggesting she was between 17 and 19 years old.
  [*]Approximate Height and Weight: 5'2"
  [*]Distinguishing Characteristics: Light-colored hair, possibly red or reddish. Petite build. She wore a size 32 A bra.
  [*]Dentals: Available. She had expensive dental work at one point in her life, but her teeth also had severe decay, suggesting she may have been from a family of means but may have fallen on hard times, perhaps getting hooked on drugs, living on the streets or working as a prostitute.
  [*]Clothing/Jewelry: She was wearing a gold-colored ring inscribed with the initials P McG. Other clues include a brassiere and remains of pantyhose and a standard 1966 Bulova watch.
  [*]Other: Possibly of Irish descent. The victim may also have abused drugs, and been a prostitute - scraps of glittery clothing were also recovered at the scene.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

The initials on the ring caught me. "P McG."
Of course the ring might not be hers (a relatives, a boyfriend's etc.), but it still is a clue.

last names with McG I could find:
*McGuire
*McGregor
*McGraw
*McGrath
*McGinness
*McGinn
*McGuirk
*McGill
*McGuinn
*McGriff
*McGhee
*McGray/Grey
*McGrae

The closest I could find in missing persons was http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mcginness_kelli.html
Keli McGinness used several alias's, one being Patricia. Could she have used Patricia McGinn/McGinness? She spoke of leaving Seattle, did she end up in NY? The area she was found in was frequented by prostitutes and she was described as a high-class one. The age is a match, but the height is off by a few inches.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

I did find a Patricia McGill missing in 1983; however, she was in our 40's and our doe is believed to be in her late teens

 

[DQN]

I did find a Patricia McGill missing in 1983; however, she was in our 40's and our doe is believed to be in her late teens

I wouldn't not submit a find based on age. I said it before I will say it again. ( I saw this on a crime show recently on Investigative ID "Who KIlled Jane Doe") There was a missing woman from NYS she was 47. A body was found in Maryland listed at an age of 25 -35. She remained unidentified for 8 years. The detectives working on the case came across the unidentified body. The sketch looked like their missing person, they made the call to Maryland and she was identified as the 47 year old missing woman. Prior to that she was looked over because of the age.

 

[NadirCake]

Here is an interesting post about the ring from Americas Most Wanted John Walsh from Scumhunter.

--[snip]--

Post by Scumhunter on May 31, 2014 at 5:26pm
PMCS: Silver
PMCC: Cpper
PMCB: Bronze
PMCG: Gold

RSBM

Interesting find, but I would expect to see that sort of marking on the inside of the band. On this ring, the "PMcG"/"PGMc" is very prominent, and in decorative lettering, on its face.

In my mind, that would be like having "14k" (14 karat gold) in large, decorative letters on the face of a ring. Not impossible, but very, very strange. Especially because the "PMCG" material is not commonly known.

I think it's just a coincidence.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

I wouldn't not submit a find based on age. I said it before I will say it again. ( I saw this on a crime show recently on Investigative ID "Who KIlled Jane Doe") There was a missing woman from NYS she was 47. A body was found in Maryland listed at an age of 25 -35. She remained unidentified for 8 years. The detectives working on the case came across the unidentified body. The sketch looked like their missing person, they made the call to Maryland and she was identified as the 47 year old missing woman. Prior to that she was looked over because of the age.

I agree completely. They thought Andrea Kuiper was as young as 16 when in reality she was 26 years old, and the Doe Network listed her maximum age as 24. I always say give or take a few years. With her bones/Teeth not reaching full maturity, could there be some medical condition or genetic defect that could cause bones to stop growing prematurely?

 

[DQN]

I agree completely. They thought Andrea Kuiper was as young as 16 when in reality she was 26 years old, and the Doe Network listed her maximum age as 24. I always say give or take a few years. With her bones/Teeth not reaching full maturity, could there be some medical condition or genetic defect that could cause bones to stop growing prematurely?

Of course if you have a feeling and other variables match up go with it. The worse that can happen it won't be that person but by all means don't pass it up.
IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, went missing June 9, 2017. I was following the case when I looked at the Namus record in the middle of June it read she went missing July 9, 2017. We were still in month of June no way did she go missing July 9, it was since corrected. But often it may never be corrected. Don't disregard anything in the records if you have a gut feeling, mistakes are made in data entry people are human. Another case mentioned a unidentified woman the one in the cabinet found in the Bronx was listed at 4'7" and 163 lbs. I do not know many female adults that are 4'7" . The height probably should have been entered as 5'7" There are been records on Doe network vs. Namus showing different clothes that someone was found in, or different makes. USA can spend billions to send men to the moon 40 years ago but can't get a reliable data base for missing people in the USA. Sorry state of affairs. It is not to discredit the volunteers, if it weren't for their hard work we would have little resources. The volunteers on Web Sleuths that have matched people is astronomical but our own government can't get it together. Thank God for volunteers, people that care.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

Of course if you have a feeling and other variables match up go with it. The worse that can happen it won't be that person but by all means don't pass it up.
IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, went missing June 9, 2017. I was following the case when I looked at the Namus record in the middle of June it read she went missing July 9, 2017. We were still in month of June no way did she go missing July 9, it was since corrected. But often it may never be corrected. Don't disregard anything in the records if you have a gut feeling, mistakes are made in data entry people are human. Another case mentioned a unidentified woman the one in the cabinet found in the Bronx was listed at 4'7" and 163 lbs. I do not know many female adults that are 4'7" . The height probably should have been entered as 5'7" There are been records on Doe network vs. Namus showing different clothes that someone was found in, or different makes. USA can spend billions to send men to the moon 40 years ago but can't get a reliable data base for missing people in the USA. Sorry state of affairs. It is not to discredit the volunteers, if it weren't for their hard work we would have little resources. The volunteers on Web Sleuths that have matched people is astronomical but our own government can't get it together. Thank God for volunteers, people that care.

I actually made that mistake at work today! I work at a thrift store and our sale tags have the date that the item is put out. If certain items are there for over a month they can get marked down. The tag said Jun 10, and I mistakenly told them the item had only been out for 2 days. oops!

Of course if you have a feeling and other variables match up go with it. The worse that can happen it won't be that person but by all means don't pass it up.

Thank you for this statement! I tend to overthink things when the worst case scenario is that it may not be them! I find potential matches all the time I could start submitting them regardless.

 

[DQN]

Of course you should, especially if it makes sense!