Actually, the river in question could have either been the branches of the Delaware which parallel parts of Route 17 (aka Future I-86, aka The Quickway) or the Susquehanna which crosses 17 and parallels I-81 for a time, both of which can be unruly at any time. Route 17 is a route from NYC to the Southern Tier of NYS through an area referred to as the Borscht Belt because all of the Jewish camps and resorts that used to be there (and some still are.) Route 17 would have been most of the route from where Bonita and Mitchel were last seen to Watkins Glen and back.
NY NY - Mitchel Weiser, 16, & Bonita Bickwit, 15, Narrowsburg, 27 July 1973
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Actually, the river in question could have either been the branches of the Delaware which parallel parts of Route 17 (aka Future I-86, aka The Quickway) or the Susquehanna which crosses 17 and parallels I-81 for a time, both of which can be unruly at any time. Route 17 is a route from NYC to the Southern Tier of NYS through an area referred to as the Borscht Belt because all of the Jewish camps and resorts that used to be there (and some still are.) Route 17 would have been most of the route from where Bonita and Mitchel were last seen to Watkins Glen and back.
Am somewhat familiar with the area, I grew up in NYC. Do you believe the river story ? I wonder if Bonnie was robbed ? Was that a possible motive ? MOO
No, I don't believe the river story. It is a possibility, sure, but as those are the two main rivers on the way to and from Watkins Glen, I find it hard to believe the informant couldn't remember what river it was. Also, due to the large recreational fishing tourism in that area, I find it hard to believe 2 bodies would not be found.
Part of me hopes they ran off together to start a new life. But, if still alive, I think they'd have surfaced by now.
I'm going to put this as delicately as possible out of respect for their families and recognizing that they are missing children. Is it possible that their young love had unintended consequences? If so, that could lead to several scenarios, including:
1) They ran off to get married and stayed away at first because they were afraid their families and community wouldn't want them back and eventually, felt too much time had gone by to go home again.
2) The concert was a smokescreen to get the unintended consequence taken care of and something went terribly wrong. (This was, after all, just 6 months after Roe v. Wade)
3) They ran off together to get married and something happened to one or both of them subsequently and the other didn't want to go home and face the other one's family.
I also wonder if they could have been recruited into a cult at the concert. If that happened, they may have been told they had to shed their biological families in favor of their new chosen family, the group. (I looked through the posted Jonestown victims and didn't see them, but they don't have pictures of everyone.
The second one may be the most likely,because of the $80.00 which Bonnie took. MOO However, they were not initially going to the concert together. Mitch was going with a friend,who bailed on him at the last minute...
The river story told by the vet is,IMO, the cleaned up version of something which actually happened. I do not belive that Bonnie jumped in the river fully clothed. And I also do not believe that she took her clothing off in front of 2 strange guys,and went swimming. I believe it is highly likely that the two men,the driver of the vehicle, and the vet, were invlolved in the disappearance of Bonnie and Mitch... JMO
Thats been one of my stickling points forever:Im not familiar with Rivers in New York having never been there but even here in Idaho you would have a hard time finding a River that High in July to be swept away in the manner described....spring Runoff oh yeah and several fisherman have fallen from boats and been swept away over the years and to my knowledge everyone of them has turned up down stream.
The Vet knows what happened to them but I dont believe his story for a minute.
I think he was trying to clear his own conscience through some messed up idea of providing 'closure' with a B.S. story that wouldnt get him or anyone else in trouble over what REALLY happened.
And he cant quite remember exactly where it happened....right.
Like you would ever be able to forget.
This case is really one of the Top Five that is close to my heart.
Ive been snakebit by Bonnie and Mitch since I first read thier story and saw their photos.
I think about it everytime it starts getting near summer.
After thinking more : one thing that defined Grateful Dead concerts in the 70s was free acid. It was given away at the venue,before,during,and after concerts. Please don't misunderstand , I think these were good kids,both of them. But, I knew a lot of bright,curious kids like Mitch and Bonnie who did try acid. It was more about intellectual curiousity that a simple drug high thing.
I wonder if the vet and the VW driver gave them both acid ? Because that would certainly make someone jump into a river. With or without clothing. The effects would have been wildly unpredictable.
If both the vet and the driver were also high on acid,he might well not remember the river. Although,for sure, their bodies should have been found. Could be that something different went down, and the river was a cover story...MOO The vet was still controlling everything when he discussed what happened. It was as though he was giving the parents a heads up, while at the same time protecting himself... MOO
If Bonnie and Mitch OD'ed, why hide the bodies? If they were hitchhiking, there was nothing to connect them to the driver and the vet, why not just put them on the side of the road and let them be found? They would just be written off as ODs from the concert. As for them going into the river while tripping, I firmly believe if they died accidentally, they'd have been found. I'm not buying the vet's story. Either the call was a cruel hoax, a well intentioned but misled attempt to give the parents closure or as others have said, a half truth attempt to clear his conscience.
Just my opinion.
It would be interesting to know more about this vet....its hard to decipher just what his motives are...his story is just so half-a$$ed.
My gut feeling is on some level he wanted to let the Family know that ,'No,they arent coming home.' and the story was the best he could come up with short of possibly getting himself and others in trouble over what really happened.
I think he actually thought everyone would just go "Oh.ok. Thanks. I guess we can just forget about Bonnie and Mitch and move on now."
I dont think they were ever in the river frankly I think they are buried somewhere between Watkins Glen and New York City.
My gut feeling is on some level he wanted to let the Family know that ,'No,they arent coming home.' and the story was the best he could come up with short of possibly getting himself and others in trouble over what really happened.
I think he actually thought everyone would just go "Oh.ok. Thanks. I guess we can just forget about Bonnie and Mitch and move on now."
I dont think they were ever in the river frankly I think they are buried somewhere between Watkins Glen and New York City.
I have to agree with others- Allyn Smith's story doesn't ring completely true- what struck me, is that he couldn't remember what river/what part of the river that he saw the two go into, BUT he could remember "identifying details" about their clothing? After 27 years? I also agree, that reluctance to report the "incident" to the police could well have involved drugs of some sort. I don't know what to make of his story...could be telling the truth, partial truth, or just seeking attention. He could have gotten general details of their clothing by looking up old newspaper articles, like those on the newspaper articles available on mitchelandbonnie.com. I don't know how he would have given specifics on the clothing that the police would be able to verify, as they do state that they lost the file- including lists of potential witness, dental records, etc.
Another thing that stands out to me are the contradictory descriptions of Bonnie and Mitch's states of mind- their high school friends say they didn't have any real worries other than regular old teen blues- nothing serious and that both were happy, that they were close to their parents, they were good kids, popular and well liked in school and that they wouldn't have just took off like that, and weren't part of the hippie culture. To quote a phrase from the time period, they sound like "squares". I have no idea how close any of these friends really were to Mitch and Bonnie, but I guess it just seemed a lot like when a classmate dies, and suddenly, no matter who they really were, they become the most popular kid in school, everyone was their "best friend" and "really close" to them- that's how it struck me.
Contrast that with the siblings and parents observations- Both Mitch and Bonnie's sisters (who seem to have been close to Bonnie and Mitch) observed that something seemed off with them before their disappearance- and Bonnie quit her babysitting job in anger a week before her disappearance. Bonnie's mother said they didn't communicate well and had very differing viewpoints, Mitch's mother stated that they didn't really have many discussions- in other words, they didn't feel close. Mitch and Bonnie were described by a teacher as very socially involved- ringing doorbells for McGovern during his campaign, Bonnie and Mitch both apparently became vegetarians. Bonnie had written a paper about traditional marriage dying, and people looking for alternative ways to be happy. And let's not forget, they were going to the Allman Brothers and Grateful Dead. As the daughter of a hippie, to me, it sounds very much like they were involved in or on the fringes of the "hippie culture".
With all of that in mind, I kind of lean toward the theory that they did runaway together, and at some later point, met an unfortunate end- whether accidental through drugs, car accident, etc, or by hitching a ride with the wrong person. On the other hand, it is a possibility (small, I know) that they are both still alive, and have chosen to stay away. As to their not contacting their families- I know that my father loves me very much, but he also had some issues, and dropped completely out of my life for over ten years- no letters, phone calls, or birthday cards, I had no idea where he was- and when we did finally come in contact with each other, it was because I was finally able to track him down. He loved me, and didn't want to hurt me, but it had become easier for him to stay away, rather than try to explain himself. Just my thoughts.
Another thing that stands out to me are the contradictory descriptions of Bonnie and Mitch's states of mind- their high school friends say they didn't have any real worries other than regular old teen blues- nothing serious and that both were happy, that they were close to their parents, they were good kids, popular and well liked in school and that they wouldn't have just took off like that, and weren't part of the hippie culture. To quote a phrase from the time period, they sound like "squares". I have no idea how close any of these friends really were to Mitch and Bonnie, but I guess it just seemed a lot like when a classmate dies, and suddenly, no matter who they really were, they become the most popular kid in school, everyone was their "best friend" and "really close" to them- that's how it struck me.
Contrast that with the siblings and parents observations- Both Mitch and Bonnie's sisters (who seem to have been close to Bonnie and Mitch) observed that something seemed off with them before their disappearance- and Bonnie quit her babysitting job in anger a week before her disappearance. Bonnie's mother said they didn't communicate well and had very differing viewpoints, Mitch's mother stated that they didn't really have many discussions- in other words, they didn't feel close. Mitch and Bonnie were described by a teacher as very socially involved- ringing doorbells for McGovern during his campaign, Bonnie and Mitch both apparently became vegetarians. Bonnie had written a paper about traditional marriage dying, and people looking for alternative ways to be happy. And let's not forget, they were going to the Allman Brothers and Grateful Dead. As the daughter of a hippie, to me, it sounds very much like they were involved in or on the fringes of the "hippie culture".
With all of that in mind, I kind of lean toward the theory that they did runaway together, and at some later point, met an unfortunate end- whether accidental through drugs, car accident, etc, or by hitching a ride with the wrong person. On the other hand, it is a possibility (small, I know) that they are both still alive, and have chosen to stay away. As to their not contacting their families- I know that my father loves me very much, but he also had some issues, and dropped completely out of my life for over ten years- no letters, phone calls, or birthday cards, I had no idea where he was- and when we did finally come in contact with each other, it was because I was finally able to track him down. He loved me, and didn't want to hurt me, but it had become easier for him to stay away, rather than try to explain himself. Just my thoughts.
WholeLottaRosie
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Bumping for Bonnie and Mitch. Don't know anything new, can't find anything to add. The Myspace woman still bugs me, if she had fake id for dob and all, could that have fooled LE? How close did they check? Not knowing things like that bug me. See the Myspace is still there, but looks like not updated for a couple years. Just thinking out loud. We all have pet cases; this is one of mine.
Mels3kidz
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I don't. There large river one county over from where I live. Its a very touristy place. Lostof water recreation sports. About 30 years ago some kids were swept away in a bus. Helicopters were plucking them out of the trees. Of the people who died in this flood all of the bodies were found except 1. . .he's still out there somewhere.
Mel.
WholeLottaRosie
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I don't buy the river story either. I still think they are out there somewhere (alive).
dogperson
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How would a person go about setting up a false identity in the 1970s? I'm sure it was easier then than it would be today. It seems like, if they did just run away and are still alive, they would have to be living under other names, unless they left the country.
If they are still alive and have chosen not to contact their families, are there any thoughts as to why they would want to cut their families off? Were there problems we are not aware of in the families that would lead to that much bitterness? This is a very long time not to contact anyone. The only reason I can imagine doing that myself is if there were very serious problems in the home, abuse, neglect, or some other factor that would cause me to have no desire to see or contact my family again.
My other thought is perhaps the Navy vet and/or the bus driver supplied drugs to Mitch and Bonnie on their way back and something went horribly wrong and they died. Example: the Navy vet making up the story about the river and possible drowning so that the families would know the kids were dead, but not wanting to admit he contributed to their deaths in any way. If they died of an overdose/drug reaction he and the bus driver may have feared manslaughter charges or something of that nature at the time. This is only conjecture of course, and I'm not accusing either of these men of doing anything wrong, just throwing out ideas.
The thing I would also like to know the answer to is what did Bonnie do with the money she took from her house? If she took $80 where did it go? What did they plan to do with the money? How far could you get on $80 in 1973?
If they are still alive and have chosen not to contact their families, are there any thoughts as to why they would want to cut their families off? Were there problems we are not aware of in the families that would lead to that much bitterness? This is a very long time not to contact anyone. The only reason I can imagine doing that myself is if there were very serious problems in the home, abuse, neglect, or some other factor that would cause me to have no desire to see or contact my family again.
My other thought is perhaps the Navy vet and/or the bus driver supplied drugs to Mitch and Bonnie on their way back and something went horribly wrong and they died. Example: the Navy vet making up the story about the river and possible drowning so that the families would know the kids were dead, but not wanting to admit he contributed to their deaths in any way. If they died of an overdose/drug reaction he and the bus driver may have feared manslaughter charges or something of that nature at the time. This is only conjecture of course, and I'm not accusing either of these men of doing anything wrong, just throwing out ideas.
The thing I would also like to know the answer to is what did Bonnie do with the money she took from her house? If she took $80 where did it go? What did they plan to do with the money? How far could you get on $80 in 1973?
I don't know but can offer 2 quick items that come to mind about that time. Driver's licenses did not have photos. Stolen ID's were easy to come by and commonly used for underage persons to gain entrance to bars.
And the Federal minimum wage in 1972 was $1.75 per hour. A 40 hour week job paid $70.00 gross. $1 in pre-1965 silver coins is valued at $21 today, so 80*$21 is $1680. Possibly not a completely fair index of inflation, but thats how the money value has changed in the last 40 years.
WholeLottaRosie
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I think setting up a new identity would have been much easier then. One way, and, I remember reading this in a book back in the 70's, My cousin had it for a school paper and let me borrow it. Can't recall the name of the book but it was fascinating. One way, was to go to a cemetery, and find a baby who died who was about your age.
Copy all the info, and maybe you had the parents info off the tombstone. And then go to local paper and find obit, would give you parents info. Write to the state or county for birth certificate. This cost a few bucks and they didn't require much info. Then could get a social security in that name. It was common then to get a social when you went to work or college. I know I got mine as a 6th grade class project, but, I know several people my age who went to different schools, LOL who didn't. Another cousin got his at 22!!! He worked for the family business for cash and when he decided to go to work elsewhere he got one.
A woman could get one in 20s or 30s, just claim got married and didn't work. They didn't check. Times were really different before 9/11 and all. I think the Socials for babies started in the mid to late 80s. Once you have a birth cert and social you could get a driver's license. And a bank account and then credit.
Not sure on the money. It sure went further, but, I didn't personally pay rent or motel bills so not sure. My husband is always telling me about a building in our town - a very cool looking old two story house. He said forever in the 60s and 70s it was a boarding house, which as a lad fascinated him, and had a sign up saying 25.00 a week, Clean, with hot water, a hot breakfast and dinner. LOL At some point someone redid it back to a lovely single family home, but, he never fails to tell me that when we go by it. I live in a fair sized small city in the metro area of a major Midwestern City.
I do recall staying in a Super 8 in Kansas in about 84 or 85 and recall it being 17.00 per night!!!! And it was actually a fairly decent room. It was one of maybe two or three in a small town. I can recall small motels around the Midwest and Upper South being 20 - 30 a night in that time, and not dives.
So 80 might have lasted till either or both got a job - easier to get, and day labor paid cash daily, restaurant work paid cash in many cases. And I have always wondered if either or both of them had some more money no one knew about.
WholeLottaRosie
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Wow. Thanks. I can recall at my high school graduation getting just over 500.00 in CASH and feeling amazingly rich!!! During my senior of high school and that summer before college, I worked as a waitress near a race track and got good tips from winners. A couple hundred on a weekend seemed like a lot of money, which is was then. Gas was really cheap and so was most things.
And yes, the no photo on driver's licenses made it easy to get a fake id or use an older sister or brother's, or such.
And if they hadn't gotten a Social Security number before they left, I suppose they could have gotten one in their own names, if they had their birth certs., or they could have written for copies in their real names. I wonder if they did would anyone be able to find that out. /I know cops can run socials of missing people to see if working and all, but, could they then? And if they didn't know the social, I wonder if they could.
FindingJoanieHall
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Im sorry to bother ws about this if Im wrong but its driving me nuts & I have been googling all morning trying to find out where I read it several years ago but I can't find it anywhere. I even remember I did some research on it several years ago but can't even find it on my external hard drive at this point. But here goes. At one point wasn't cross dressing serial killer Hadden Clark put forth as possibly being involved in the disappearance of young Bickwit & Weiser? If anyone knows anything about this I would be very grateful to hear what you remember.
WholeLottaRosie
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Hmmm, let me think on this. Off the top of my head I don't recall it and /i just saw this and wanted to post a reply but will get back on this. As I was reading this I realized I need to probably call it a day.