Identified! NY - Mount Vernon, WhtFem 51UFNY, 18-25, Left Near Junkyard, Feb'88 - Veronica Wiederhold

[jessr927]

I just ran this case by my mother, who has been a longtime amateur sleuther. She has lived in MV since 1983 and once owned a home way up north NY on Route 22, which extends up to Massachusetts to the best of my knowledge. Her theory is that the killer was a truck driver who drove 22 for work, and may have met Jane Doe up north, perhaps at a truck stop. George Ossipo mentioned that his prime suspect was a man in MA, but didn't disclose further info about him.

 

[Sleuthster]

There is mention of Wendy Huggy being a possible. She was 5'8 +. I think she's too tall for Mt Vernon Doe.

 

[jessr927]

I don't know why the discrepancy, but Namus has Mount Vernon Jane Doe listed between 5'0" - 5'6" which is what made me consider Wendy, along with the similar mole on their clavicle and the facial similarities.

 

[jessr927]

Now I'm flip flopping as to if the killer was from/familiar with the area or not. From what I can gather, MVJD was found in front of 9-11 Carleton, which is a scrap metal place called J. Bass & Sons. They have occupied that building since at least 1980 per their website, and are still located there. The killer clearly took a HUGE chance by putting and then posing a body in the mid morning- though it was a Sunday, how did he feel so comfortable doing so? (J. Bass has Saturday hours in fact, but closed on Sundays). Also, Carleton is less than a city block long, and is off of two main roads- route 22 and East seventh street. Anyone coming up or down could easily see down that block.

Sorry for all my posts lately! Now that I pass this place every day it's a harsh reality.

 

[LilacStar79]

I'm not 100% sure but I know when they examine the brain in an autopsy, they cut across the top of the head and remove the top of the skull. I've seen that "bump" in other PM photos and am pretty sure it's an area that's been Photoshopped or otherwise edited to hide where they pull down part of the scalp (sorry to be graphic!).

Would the morgue photographs be taken before or after the autopsy is completed? And would they use a post-autopsy photograph for release for identification? I'm just curious because I don't really know.

And yes there could be a bump present on the forehead after autopsy if the skull is not lined up properly when the technicians stitch the skull back up after the autopsy. Is the UID's chest visible in the photograph? The Y incision goes up almost nearly to the shoulders and its presence or absence may help us determine if the bump on her forehead is from the autopsy or not.

To me personally, I always felt like the coloring of her skin looked like she was strangled or spent time face down post-mortem to produced the staining on her face.

 

[CarlK90245]

And yes there could be a bump present on the forehead after autopsy if the skull is not lined up properly when the technicians stitch the skull back up after the autopsy. Is the UID's chest visible in the photograph? The Y incision goes up almost nearly to the shoulders and its presence or absence may help us determine if the bump on her forehead is from the autopsy or not.

No, the bump on the head is also there in the crime scene photos, before she was taken to the morgue.

 

[jessr927]

To me personally, I always felt like the coloring of her skin looked like she was strangled or spent time face down post-mortem to produced the staining on her face.

I agree. However, I was in the hospital room with my friend when he passed away, and not long after, as we were saying goodbye to him, his arms began to develop the same discoloration, like lividity, although his arms were not turned over.

 

[jessr927]

No, the bump on the head is also there in the crime scene photos, before she was taken to the morgue.

Carl, is there a place I can obtain the crime scene photos from? Mt. Vernon PD?

 

[FiveFelines]

No, the bump on the head is also there in the crime scene photos, before she was taken to the morgue.

Oh! Thanks for the clarification. I haven't seen the crime scene photos.

 

[sam spade]

Ok, Sleuthers....let me know what you think....

http://doenetwork.org/cases/343dfmn.html

Right time frame; height; weight; hair and eye color; eyebrows, nose and mouth look similar; and if we're going with the abduction theory...she changed clothes into something "sexier" and got into a car with an unseemly fellow. And with the Valentine's Day line of thinking...maybe he was a serial killer who killed for being jilted. Just some things flopping around my head....

Thanks, guys!

 

[Springrain]

Ok, Sleuthers....let me know what you think....

http://doenetwork.org/cases/343dfmn.html

Right time frame; height; weight; hair and eye color; eyebrows, nose and mouth look similar; and if we're going with the abduction theory...she changed clothes into something "sexier" and got into a car with an unseemly fellow. And with the Valentine's Day line of thinking...maybe he was a serial killer who killed for being jilted. Just some things flopping around my head....

Thanks, guys!

Susan was ruled out by Mount Vernon NY Police in 2010.

 

[Dizzie]

Thanks for all the updates...

This case is one that would certainly benefit from a cold case review, I guess there really isn't much funding/interest out there in finding out who in the hell this poor woman was. Hate the cases where you have perfect pictures of UIDs and nobody claims them.. With all the databases and forensics if this guy killed before you would think he must be in a DNA bank someplace..Did they obtain any forensics from the crimescene for this carl? Didn't she had trace cocaine in her blood? Very popular drug, but back then remarkably expensive - not that that means much in a city so large. But as a pointer could indicate something upscale rather than downmaket. And brocolli is weird? Dieting? Certainly not on any junk food menu.

They should release alot more information on these cases when they are so old. The internet has vast resources compared to the police when it comes to missing/UID work.

 

[wintermute]

Ok, Sleuthers....let me know what you think....

http://doenetwork.org/cases/343dfmn.html

Right time frame; height; weight; hair and eye color; eyebrows, nose and mouth look similar; and if we're going with the abduction theory...she changed clothes into something "sexier" and got into a car with an unseemly fellow. And with the Valentine's Day line of thinking...maybe he was a serial killer who killed for being jilted. Just some things flopping around my head....

Thanks, guys!

Susan had extensive dental work, and the UID didn't have any cavities or fillings. I think that would rule Susan out.

 

[jessr927]

You're so right, Dizzie. Right now I'm working with our local news (Westchester County NY) to get them to air a story on MVJD. The last press coverage was the December 2013 extensive article where George Ossipo and Cathleen Martin's family were interviewed.

 

[sam spade]

Crud! She isn't listed on NAMUS rule-out list....darn it.

 

[Springrain]

For my Thursday blog post, I wrote about her. Entry includes NamUs ruleouts...just click the 2nd link in my signature.

ETA: For whatever reason it didn't publish in its entirety! I just republished it. Hope it works.

 

[leonhardt]

Talk about local! I live (well, go to school) in Westchester county. When I stumbled on her article on wikipedia I immediately went to check if she had a thread here, and I wasn't disappointed!

I have yet to read through the thread, so I apologize if I sound redundant.
I wonder if she's from around the area. If so, she's likely to come from a well to do family that would probably be looking for her. Westchester is a notoriously wealthy area. Of course, there are also a number of colleges too. There's also the possibility that she was a run away. It mentioned on doenet that her underarms weren't shaved for two weeks and her eyebrows look a little unkempt. Of course, I'm just brainstorming, and those things could mean nothing. Not every woman is into doing that.
From what I can guess, I'd say runaway is more likely than being from the area. However she's estimated to be college age? A little old to be a simple runaway.

 

[Springrain]

Talk about local! I live (well, go to school) in Westchester county. When I stumbled on her article on wikipedia I immediately went to check if she had a thread here, and I wasn't disappointed!

I have yet to read through the thread, so I apologize if I sound redundant.
I wonder if she's from around the area. If so, she's likely to come from a well to do family that would probably be looking for her. Westchester is a notoriously wealthy area. Of course, there are also a number of colleges too. There's also the possibility that she was a run away. It mentioned on doenet that her underarms weren't shaved for two weeks and her eyebrows look a little unkempt. Of course, I'm just brainstorming, and those things could mean nothing. Not every woman is into doing that.
From what I can guess, I'd say runaway is more likely than being from the area. However she's estimated to be college age? A little old to be a simple runaway.

Just a quick FYI (you might know some of this info already):
- Broccoli and cocaine was found in her system
- Some speculate her DNA sample is tainted and focus more on MP's dental work when comparing her
- Her pubic area was shaved
- Her fingernails were painted, so she was probably "into that kind of thing"

Personally I don't think she was from the area, but I think her killer was. I think she may have been going to college in a neighboring town (New Rochelle, maybe?) and perhaps was a sex worker to pay her tuition. She maybe shaved the area she thought would help with business, ignored legs/underarms and didn't have access to tweezers. If she had no permanent home, and/or no little time or no access to a shower, she may have shaved with a bar of soap and sink water. If you're a girl and have done that, you know what I mean...you don't want to shave everything under those conditions. Anyway, I think an isotope analysis would be very good for identifying her.

 

[cvaldez1975]

this is what I think too with the exception of her bring in college. I don't think she was, sadly. I think she was likely homeless and a prostitute.

Just a quick FYI (you might know some of this info already):
- Broccoli and cocaine was found in her system
- Some speculate her DNA sample is tainted and focus more on MP's dental work when comparing her
- Her pubic area was shaved
- Her fingernails were painted, so she was probably "into that kind of thing"

Personally I don't think she was from the area, but I think her killer was. I think she may have been going to college in a neighboring town (New Rochelle, maybe?) and perhaps was a sex worker to pay her tuition. She maybe shaved the area she thought would help with business, ignored legs/underarms and didn't have access to tweezers. If she had no permanent home, and/or no little time or no access to a shower, she may have shaved with a bar of soap and sink water. If you're a girl and have done that, you know what I mean...you don't want to shave everything under those conditions. Anyway, I think an isotope analysis would be very good for identifying her.

 

[Springrain]

this is what I think too with the exception of her bring in college. I don't think she was, sadly. I think she was likely homeless and a prostitute.

That's true. Or, she could have entered and dropped out. But I don't think she originated from the area. Although I have no way to prove that, just MOO. Gut feeling. But since her body was dumped in such an obscure location, that's why I think her killer was local.

The whole murder screams "prostitute murder" to me, because most cases of prostitute murder I've seen involved strangulation (except for, I believe he was called, the "Vampire Killer" who drank a prostitute's blood? If anyone knows about that please let me know...will sleuth when I get home).