NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

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CoolJ said:
1) he wasn't selling cigs for less than the stores otherwise he wouldn't be making a profit as he has to buy these cigs from the stores to begin with.
2) do you have any proof WHATSOEVER that he was threatening ANYBODY?
3) you should really watch the video again
4) if you are having trouble breathing, pretty sure you are gonna be able to mutter out the words "I can't breathe"... And it is true he couldn't breathe... I know this BECAUSE HE IS DEAD
5) you should really watch the video again
6) do you have a link that LE in NY do not carry O2
7)pretty sure you are supporting the PO's actions one way or another (more so, one way)
8) there is no resisting at any point in that video let alone while he has 4 cops hanging off of him
9) what are you talking about someone claiming to be a grand juror?

JMO
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What if he bought them out of State for less than local NY Cigs? OR picked them up at a NY Reservation.....cheaper and no tax stamp? Doesn't matter......he was legally arrested by authorized . If a cop has to throw you on the ground you are likely resisting(Garner was by walking away, flailing his arms and avoiding being cuffed plus telling an officer whom has just arrested you "don't touch me" is resisting) or he feels you present a threat and wishes to insure control of said arrested suspect.

This isn't neurosurgery.....simply comply or ALL INVOLVED SUFFER CONSEQUENCES.
 
Archangel7 said:
What if he bought them out of State for less than local NY Cigs? OR picked them up at a NY Reservation.....cheaper and no tax stamp? Doesn't matter......he was legally arrested by authorized . If a cop has to throw you on the ground you are likely resisting(Garner was by walking away, flailing his arms and avoiding being cuffed plus telling an officer whom has just arrested you "don't touch me" is resisting) or he feels you present a threat and wishes to insure control of said arrested suspect.

This isn't neurosurgery.....simply comply or ALL INVOLVED SUFFER CONSEQUENCES.
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Ok fair enough he may have been selling cigs illegally.
IF that was resisting arrest and that is how LE is allowed to deal with someone acting the way EG did, then it needs to change and apparently I ain't the only one who believes that, LE included. Things are about to change big time , and it is long overdue IMO.
 
Archangel7 said:
What if he bought them out of State for less than local NY Cigs? OR picked them up at a NY Reservation.....cheaper and no tax stamp? Doesn't matter......he was legally arrested by authorized . If a cop has to throw you on the ground you are likely resisting(Garner was by walking away, flailing his arms and avoiding being cuffed plus telling an officer whom has just arrested you "don't touch me" is resisting) or he feels you present a threat and wishes to insure control of said arrested suspect.

This isn't neurosurgery.....simply comply or ALL INVOLVED SUFFER CONSEQUENCES.
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bbm It's looking like he did.

Cops said Garner, a 43-year-old father of six, was selling untaxed cigarettes, also known as loosies.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...gal-cigarette-sales-bratton-article-1.1901612

We know why they were there: Garner was known in the Tompkinsville neighborhood of Staten Island for selling illegal loose cigarettes.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/12/4/7...l-pantaleo-police-death-camera-accountability
 
Anyone know the price and taxes for cigarettes in New Jersey? When I visit my friend who lives in NY (Staten Island) it's just a hop to the Jersey airport. If he bought the cigs out of state and then sold them as "loosies" he could make quite a bit.

IMO from what I have seen of the videotape it seems to me that the paramedics and EMS are more liable for this man's death than the PO. They should have put oxygen on this man ASAP. He should have been rolled on a "flatboard" on the sidewalk before being lifted to the stretcher. Pulling this man's heavy body the way they did put further stress on his internal organs and lungs when the opposite would be protocol. Therefor the four medical personnel have been suspended without pay. Seems to me they already know who's going to write the check for the "wrongful death" suit that they know is coming.

I'd bet there is one attorney handling another recent case that is just salivating to get his hands on this case.

JMO's
 
jggordo said:
Anyone know the price and taxes for cigarettes in New Jersey? When I visit my friend who lives in NY (Staten Island) it's just a hop to the Jersey airport. If he bought the cigs out of state and then sold them as "loosies" he could make quite a bit.

IMO from what I have seen of the videotape it seems to me that the paramedics and EMS are more liable for this man's death than the PO. They should have put oxygen on this man ASAP. He should have been rolled on a "flatboard" on the sidewalk before being lifted to the stretcher. Pulling this man's heavy body the way they did put further stress on his internal organs and lungs when the opposite would be protocol. Therefor the four medical personnel have been suspended without pay. Seems to me they already know who's going to write the check for the "wrongful death" suit that they know is coming.

I'd bet there is one attorney handling another recent case that is just salivating to get his hands on this case.

JMO's
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Ha! I bet there are quite a few attorneys salivating to get their hands on this case. Ole BC better get in line!
 
katydid23 said:
I agree that selling cigs should not be a big deal. But I heard something from my friend in NYC that puts a twist in this for the new Mayor. Apparently, he pressured the NYPD to do the special task force against 'tax free' cigs being sold because the Mayor thinks it takes away a big tax bonus from the city. So he was the one wanting them to go after these 'illegal' cig salesmen, and now he is the one having to speak about it to his voter base as well.

Also, the victim had been arrested over 30 times, and made his living selling the tax free cigs. So he should have known how to comply and I am surprised he didn't just stand down....
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sbm

Agreed, one individual selling untaxed ciggies may not be a big deal.
Collectively all the ppl selling and/or buying untaxed ciggies in NY and NYC is a BIG DEAL. Ditto all over US.

"A new report from the Tax Foundation found that 57 percent of cigarettes consumed in New York state in 2012 were smuggled into the state illegally. That's the highest rate of smuggled cigarettes in the country. New York has the highest state tax on cigarettes and
New York City imposes an additional $1.50 levy." per pack of 20 cigs. BBM

2009 "That year, the head the tobacco-diversion division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told The Wall Street Journal that states were losing an estimated $5 billion each year due to cigarette smuggling. New York state alone, according to officials in 2011, was losing $525 million a year." again BBM
^ from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/03/cigarette-smuggling-new-york-_n_5041823.html ^

Interesting & informative article. JM2cts.
 
Do we know for sure EG was even selling loosey cigs that day? Where was he keeping them? Did they seize any cigs from him? Wasn't there some talk that the reason for the police questioning was that he was breaking up a fight?
 
jggordo said:
Anyone know the price and taxes for cigarettes in New Jersey? When I visit my friend who lives in NY (Staten Island) it's just a hop to the Jersey airport. If he bought the cigs out of state and then sold them as "loosies" he could make quite a bit. ... JMO's
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sbm

jggordo. True for loosies, also true, IMO, for packs, cartons.

state tax per pack in 2012
New Jersey

$2.70​
v.
New York

$4.35

[ plus NYC tax of $1.50 /pack, so $ 5.85 tax when sold in NYC v. NJ, where state tax is $2.70 + any local tax.]

2012 est. that 56.9% of cigs consumed in NY state are smuggled from elsewhere.
2012 Smuggling Rank: NY state = #1 of US states.

^ http://taxfoundation.org/article/cigarette-taxes-and-cigarette-smuggling-state ^

Re smuggling untaxed cigs in US, see also
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/03/cigarette-smuggling-new-york-_n_5041823.html
 
I believe the statements about "breaking up a fight" came from the guy who took the video. The reason that LE was there in the first place, IIRC was because storeowners called them and asked to have him removed from their storefronts, making a complaint. In so much that he had been arrested many times before for the same thing leads me to believe he knew the drill, as far as being arrested. Enough to know that if LE wants to cuff you and arrest you that at least you know who is going to win the struggle. Having asthma or breathing problems should tell you that you are not a good candidate to take on the cops in that struggle.

Selling "loosies" is like pandering in front of a business with a product, IMO. Customers don't like to be confronted by a 300# man in front of the store they are going to and feeling hassled. And stores don't like it when their customers have to explain to this man daily why he's not getting any of their money.

JMO's
 
jggordo said:
Anyone know the price and taxes for cigarettes in New Jersey? When I visit my friend who lives in NY (Staten Island) it's just a hop to the Jersey airport. If he bought the cigs out of state and then sold them as "loosies" he could make quite a bit.

IMO from what I have seen of the videotape it seems to me that the paramedics and EMS are more liable for this man's death than the PO. They should have put oxygen on this man ASAP. He should have been rolled on a "flatboard" on the sidewalk before being lifted to the stretcher. Pulling this man's heavy body the way they did put further stress on his internal organs and lungs when the opposite would be protocol. Therefor the four medical personnel have been suspended without pay. Seems to me they already know who's going to write the check for the "wrongful death" suit that they know is coming.

I'd bet there is one attorney handling another recent case that is just salivating to get his hands on this case.

JMO's
Click to expand...

I wonder how it was determined that only ODP would face charges in front of the GJ and that all the other officers would be granted immunity? It seems to me that EG's death was caused by the collective actions of the LE/EMT who were on the scene. MOO
 
CoolJ said:
Ok fair enough he may have been selling cigs illegally.
IF that was resisting arrest and that is how LE is allowed to deal with someone acting the way EG did, then it needs to change and apparently I ain't the only one who believes that, LE included. Things are about to change big time , and it is long overdue IMO.
Click to expand...

I so wish this were true. Godspeed
 
jennapuppy said:
I wonder how it was determined that only ODP would be indicted and that all the other officers would be granted immunity? It seems to me that EG's death was caused by the collective actions of the LE/EMT who were on the scene. MOO
Click to expand...

In my experience he would have to be charged by an agency and the DA, county prosecutor, city prosecutor or however they are organized determines whether the evidence is GJ worthy and then the GJ decides whether there is a possibility that a crime was committed/law broken. They then return a true bill or no bill, indicting or not.
 
Truthy said:
I find it really odd that people here can focus on the cigarettes and ignore the LEOs record. It is deplorable and incredibly dangerous to allow loose cannons out there. What ws he still doing on the force?
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Some might say it's odd that ppl can focus on LEO's record and
ignore Garner's previous recorded interface w various LEOs---
i.e. 30+ arrests including giving false name/ID, and
driving w/out license or on suspended license, and 2 chgs pending in spring/summer.

A person who has bn arrested 30+ times should have some idea of approp behavior, i.e. not resisting arrest.
Not saying he deserved to die then, just saying LEO reaction was predictable (aside from chokehold, if any LEO used it on him) an dlawful.

If any, some, or all of those arrests have bn unlawful, my apologies to and sympathy for Mr G and family;
but dismissals of charges does not necessarily mean arrests were unlawful.

IIRC (I may not be, sorry, no link.) MSM quoted ppl as saying Mr G made a living selling untaxed cigs, i.e., by criminal activity.
He was 'only selling untaxed cigs?'
In doing that, did he mistakenly think he was engaging in a lawful enterprise?
Is it possible he engaged in an(other) unlawful activity at that time, something discussed but not picked up on vid?

RIP Mr G.
 
What needs to change is poverty, more jobs, family responsibility, individual responsibility and to break unions that keep employees that are poor performers and vote out Mayors with politics/policies that cause more issues than they solve. What used to be known as a good person and law abiding citizen and common sense leadership...........
 
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