NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

[popsicle]

Hold on for the ride because we still have the Voderrit Myers case and Tamir Rice shooting.

 

[SCHMAE]

Maybe it's just me, but with other crimes in the city like robbery, rape, car theft, etc, isn't selling loose cigs not too much of a big deal?

Well we need to follow the laws. If it's illegal there and he broke the law then he needed a ticket or whatever it is they do for that. That is not the issue for me. At issue is them piling on like it's a football game. How many LEO's does it take to cuff one man? Yes , he's a big man, but even once on ground , they seem to literally be piling on a football player . How much is too much? To the last 2 or 3 cops who piled on......... do you have so little faith in your fellow officers you did not think they could manage ? Or did a bit of pack mentality take over?

 

[CoolJ]

Only if breathing is extremely shallow or intermittent... say 6-12/min. jmo

Yes, exactly, such as in this case here. IF he was breathing at all it was very shallow breathing, especially after just being taken down by 4 or 5 cops. Honestly I am more disgusted by their lack of action after he is handcuffed than their actions to actually get him handcuffed(those actions happen everyday, just not on camera)
IMO

 

[CoolJ]

Hard to tell from the video angle, but IMO, Garner did not look like he was moving much air. Granted he was morbidly obese, but he did not appear to be gasping. He looked non responsive. I didn't see one cop check for a pulse. They just made sure he was cuffed on on his side. The ideal position would have been flat on his back with attention paid to his airway, by opening it. The folds of his neck and chin in that position, may have limited his breathing and occluded his airway partially or fully. When I saw the EMT arrive, I thought for sure they would give him O2. NOT. Don't cops carry O2 as well?

IMO, as an ER RN for many years,and having coded many an obese person, Mr Garner's condition was not handled well at all. Actually IMO, negligently. JMV

I agree, I haven't seen any medical reports yet, but I am confident that his life could have been saved.

 

[Zuri]

Personally, I don't care <modsnip> what Mr Garner was cuffed for as long as it wasn't for murder. He was in police custody which IMO means that LE was responsible for him as he was cuffed and could not render assistance to himself. If he suffered bronchospasm, due to his medical conditions, air is tight and lungs are not moving air well.

Granted LE are not medical professionals, but they looked to me like they thought Garner was faking. I didn't. When they loaded him on the stretcher, one could tell he was unresponsive. I think LE really misjudged the situation. Selling fake cigs or whatever Garner was doing, did not justify resulting in his death. JMO

 

[CoolJ]

What's your point?
I made a statement followed by IMO.

My point? You asked a question, I answered. Isn't that what we ask questions for?

 

[Zuri]

I am frankly shocked that the GJ did not hold LE culpable for negligence. Did they see the unedited video? And did a medical professional describe what appeared to be going on? Aren't most cops trained in First Aid? I tend to side with LE 99.9% of the time as I know a lot of great cops. I can't side with them here. I can't imagine what evidence would show that LE was not in some way responsible for Mr. Garners death. And yes I recognize he had a lot of risk factors, I am just commenting on face value. No stones please! IMO

 

[XXXXXXXX]

Personally, I don't care <modsnip> what Mr Garner was cuffed for as long as it wasn't for murder. He was in police custody which IMO means that LE was responsible for him as he was cuffed and could not render assistance to himself. If he suffered bronchospasm, due to his medical conditions, air is tight and lungs are not moving air well.

Granted LE are not medical professionals, but they looked to me like they thought Garner was faking. I didn't. When they loaded him on the stretcher, one could tell he was unresponsive. I think LE really misjudged the situation. Selling fake cigs or whatever Garner was doing, did not justify resulting in his death. JMO

It actually seems like the COD is positional asphyxia. Maybe the GJ should have taken a closer look at the EMTs that just stood around staring at Garner?

 

[popsicle]

I agree, I haven't seen any medical reports yet, but I am confident that his life could have been saved.

I read an article this morning... can't find it now. He had been hospitalized multiple times for asthma, even had to be intubated once. When he would talk, at times he would get short of breath and wheeze.

 

[popsicle]

Bolcer says his death was caused by "the compression of his chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police." She says asthma and heart disease were contributing factors.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/0...by-police-officer-caused-death-nyc-man-ruled/

jmo Probably explains the GJ's no indictment.

 

[Zuri]

It actually seems like the COD is positional asphyxia. Maybe the GJ should have taken a closer look at the EMTs that just stood around staring at Garner?

The only EMT I saw was the girl and the guy who brought the stretcher. Maybe it was a BLS unit and they weren't paramedics. But even BLS units know how to reposition an airway. She was the only one I saw check for a pulse, but she didn't even take it. No vital signs at the scene. What I saw was an EMT who seemed more concerned about how she was going to get him on the stretcher and in the ambulance.

First responders tend to pick up on the energy/activity at a scene. There was no urgency that I could see by LE and I think that may have translated to the EMT's. To be fair, I am sure the EMT's put O2 on Garner in the ambulance and may have tried to get a line in which I bet would have been hard. I am thinking he may have gone into cardiac arrest from hypoxia, similar to what happened to Joan Rivers. This is just such ashame. IMO

 

[Ray_of_hope]

My best guess is compressive asphyxia which can occur independent of cardiac or pulmonary disease. I don't agree with the GJ on this one.

 

[leah]

Instead of the one cop, why weren't the others that were on top of EG, also being brought to the grand jury? I don't have it in writing, but someone on CNN said the other cops got immunity, did anyone else hear that?

 

[bwt42]

I'm still confuse about the COD. Many msm outlets reported he died from a heart attack?

 

[Zuri]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/0...by-police-officer-caused-death-nyc-man-ruled/

jmo Probably explains the GJ's no indictment.


[/FONT]

Thanks for posting this. So the chokehold basically obstructed his airway and caused acute bronchospasm is my best guess. And yes, his underlying medical conditions certainly heavily contributed to his death IMO.

I will never forget trying to intubate someone with acute bronchospasm. We couldn't get the tube in as the trachea was in spasm and there was barely an opening in the windpipe. This was on a fellow RN who had severe asthma and it was a nightmare. The ER doc had to do a crich to get her airway open. She was young and thin too. IMO the odds were not in Garner's favor. Just tragic.

 

[popsicle]

The only EMT I saw was the girl and the guy who brought the stretcher. Maybe it was a BLS unit and they weren't paramedics. But even BLS units know how to reposition an airway. She was the only one I saw check for a pulse, but she didn't even take it. No vital signs at the scene. What I saw was an EMT who seemed more concerned about how she was going to get him on the stretcher and in the ambulance.

First responders tend to pick up on the energy/activity at a scene. There was no urgency that I could see by LE and I think that may have translated to the EMT's. To be fair, I am sure the EMT's put O2 on Garner in the ambulance and may have tried to get a line in which I bet would have been hard. I am thinking he may have gone into cardiac arrest from hypoxia, similar to what happened to Joan Rivers. This is just such ashame. IMO

I agree, Zuri. iirc, he went into cardiac arrest in the ambulance and Drs were unable to revive him after trying for an hour.

 

[jennapuppy]

Instead of the one cop, why weren't the others that were on top of EG, also being brought to the grand jury? I don't have it in writing, but someone on CNN said the other cops got immunity, did anyone else hear that?

Yes, that's true. It seems that his death was due to the collective actions of the LE/EMTs who were present at the scene, rather than resulting merely from the initial chokehold. I don't know if that factored into the GJ decision. I'm still waiting to hear more of the evidence. JMO

 

[Zuri]

Ray of Hope can probably add more, but IME, lack of circulating oxygen (hypoxia) causes cardiac arrythmias and cardiac muscle death, along with death to the brain and other major organ systems. Not sure if I am explaining this well. Ultimately, it sounds as though Garner died of cardiac arrest due to lack of oxygen. Popsicle? Ray of Hope? Your thoughts?

 

[bwt42]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/12/04/some-thoughts-on-eric-garner/

Mr. Garner died later from a heart attack.

Maybe I watch too many episodes of COPS & Dog the Bounty Hunter, but the video I watched depicted something that most likely happens many times every day. The difference here was that the perp later died from a heart attack. If he didn't die, this event would not have been noteworthy. JMO.

 

[popsicle]

Ray of Hope can probably add more, but IME, lack of circulating oxygen (hypoxia) causes cardiac arrythmias and cardiac muscle death, along with death to the brain and other major organ systems. Not sure if I am explaining this well. Ultimately, it sounds as though Garner died of cardiac arrest due to lack of oxygen. Popsicle? Ray of Hope? Your thoughts?

That is what I think happened.