NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

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Oceans said:
Mark O'Mara pretty much said the opposite tonight on CNN, that people just should follow LEO's orders and not try to fight them. A lot of problems could be avoided that way (paraphrasing more or less).
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Considering resisting arrest is illegal, I am not sure how anyone figures you have the 'right' to resist. jmo I like MOM.
 
popsicle said:
Considering resisting arrest is illegal, I am not sure how anyone figures you have the 'right' to resist. jmo I like MOM.
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This is like the people who say smoking weed SHOULD be legal, so it's not illegal. ( although that number is dwindling with each election )
 
DeeDeah said:
LOL

Even CNN's commentators don't agree with each other. I am a registered poster on a LE forum and posed that question to the LEOs a few hours ago when I saw someone post that a civilian has the right to resist arrest.

Of course, I can't link to that forum and the responses I got. I'll just say I got laughed at. A LOT. And even asked if I was planning to test that theory and if they should take up a fund for my defense lawyer.
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I believe the actual case law and court rulings are based on an illegal arrest AND with excessive force. Seems the armed citizen was confronted, shot at by an unannounced officer without identifying himself as an officer or stating arrest intent(the officer didn't identify nor advise defendant of arrest intent(which was a misdemeanor, I think). Defendant returned fire fatally killing the officer.

So (in my words)the Courts looked at any crime(i don't remember, maybe a threat about some trees, a misdemeanor) the fact the officer approached without ID and without stating intent to arrest, and then fired on the armed citizen(excessive force).

Summary......illegal arrest resisted under those particular over reaching elements of fact.
 
ETA: replacing the quote with the actual post I meant to reply to. :crazy: not the one about pot. And no, it wasn't a Freudian misquote. I don't do that stuff. :innocent: I'm naturally dopey.
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SCHMAE said:
Well, even when the EMT arrives,t hey do not jump into action immediately by any stretch of the imagination. This is a cluster**** from the word "go''.
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Right. I posted this link last night.

4 EMS Workers Suspended Without Pay in Chokehold Arrest

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Island-Eric-Garner-Video-NYPD-267913291.html



Sent from Tapatalk
 
I'm waiting for the GJ info to be released. (If it will be at all)
I'm back and forth on this one. I need more facts.

That said, wrt to CPR and/or mouth to mouth:

Mouth to mouth is not a requirement for CPR anymore. Actually many places you are taught CPR these days, advise against it.
http://firstaid.about.com/od/cpr/a/07_Y_no_breaths.htm

More importantly, in the video that I saw, EMS and/or LE said he was breathing after placing him on the stretcher. You don't do CPR on someone who is breathing, do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYSnp1UGVGc
 
To me, the facts of this case are along these lines as far as police responses.......

At the Academies across the US there ARE classes on arrest, OR SHOULD HAVE BEEN, and the fact that Courts have ruled on resisting unlawful arrest. That class alone, should ground a Cadet into the proper thought process during an arrest to wit: it is a serious undertaking to arrest a citizen in a free and Democratic society and it will be scrutinized, as it should be and there are criteria that must exist in order to arrest, criteria necessary during arrest AND the appropriate use or lack of force to complete the arrest.

If a LEO is somehow mistaken, it is better most of the time to comply fully and sort it out once he(the officer)feels in control of the situation.
 
JLSChook said:
I'm waiting for the GJ info to be released. (If it will be at all)
I'm back and forth on this one. I need more facts.

That said, wrt to CPR and/or mouth to mouth:

Mouth to mouth is not a requirement for CPR anymore. Actually many places you are taught CPR these days, advise against it.
http://firstaid.about.com/od/cpr/a/07_Y_no_breaths.htm

More importantly, in the video that I saw, EMS and/or LE said he was breathing after placing him on the stretcher. You don't do CPR on someone who is breathing, do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYSnp1UGVGc
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Me too on the GJ release. I do know Academies teach or did, rear takedowns using head and or arms. The issue with a "chokehold"(blood restriction) was the fact not 100% of everyone recovered the same after its application. I believe all USMC cadets still go thru the training on each other, but I could be mistaken.

Likely the issue of the chokehold is with the no apparent locking of the two arms together which is accepted as being needed to constitute a "chokehold." I would be more interested in facts around a "loosely" draped left arm(not necessarily squeezing the neck) with all the weight applied to Garner. IOW....if I have my arm around one's neck and everyone piles on, am I not likely to be placing pressure on Garner's neck anyway regardless? Might explain the unconsciousness yet still breathing.
 
rob said:
http://www.tax.ny.gov/press/rel/2013/rollyourownguiltyplea070313.htm

I kept wondering what the penalty would be for selling the un-taxed cigs, and it looks like NY tkes it seriously. The attached case is in a much larger scale, so I don't know. EC had apparently been caught doing this before, so I guess he probably knew the penalty
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IIRC LE was called by local businesses, not only in this case but cases in the past to remove him from the fronts of their storefronts. <modsnip> I believe that the statements by him on the videotape that "you all are always hassling me" demonstrate that. There is much more to this story than is in the media, IMO. As in some other recent cases once all the facts are known, the actions and reactions of the incident need to be examined fully before making a decision one way or another.

JMO's
 
JLSChook said:
I'm waiting for the GJ info to be released. (If it will be at all)
I'm back and forth on this one. I need more facts.

That said, wrt to CPR and/or mouth to mouth:

Mouth to mouth is not a requirement for CPR anymore. Actually many places you are taught CPR these days, advise against it.
http://firstaid.about.com/od/cpr/a/07_Y_no_breaths.htm

More importantly, in the video that I saw, EMS and/or LE said he was breathing after placing him on the stretcher. You don't do CPR on someone who is breathing, do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYSnp1UGVGc
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But you have to actually check if someone is breathing and continue to do so when dealing with an unresponsive person. Did not look like his stomach or chest were rising at all. Nobody seemed to show any signs of urgency to help him. EMS wasn't much better IMO.
 
I just saw the full, unedited video of the entire incident and it was chilling. Not so much the takedown, but the way LE and EMT reacted after Garner was unresponsive.

Hell's bells. Even when the EMTs arrived they just felt his neck for a pulse and then just stood there looking at him for something like 3 minutes. It made me cry and I don't cry easily.

Yes, I've posted that criminals should expect to be held accountable when finally confronted, but there's now no doubt in my mind, that NOTHING was done after the fact to actually help this man until it was too late.
 
popsicle said:
Considering resisting arrest is illegal, I am not sure how anyone figures you have the 'right' to resist. jmo I like MOM.
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But if it is an illegal arrest I suppose you could legally resist. However it's probably not going to work out to well for you.
 
CHERIE.T said:
Nope. If they are breathing their heart is beating.
If they have no pulse and no breathe you do CPR.
If they have a heartrate and no breathing you do rescue breathing.
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Also, if breathing quality is abnormal you can do rescue breathing.
 
CHERIE.T said:
Nope. If they are breathing their heart is beating.
If they have no pulse and no breathe you do CPR.
If they have a heartrate and no breathing you do rescue breathing.
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He was breathing, but an asthma sufferer's breaths don't carry enough oxygen to the blood. Any pulmonary condition causes reduced oxygen in the sufferer's blood supply. Maybe the EMTs weren't aware he was asthmatic. But they were certainly aware that he was unresponsive and it shouldn't have taken more than 3 minutes to decide to put him on a stretcher and get him to a hospital.

I don't mean that to sound like I'm disagreeing with you, but I've NEVER seen a group of EMTs and LE just stand around staring at an unresponsive person for over three minutes before getting their rears in gear.
 
CHERIE.T said:
Unlike other cases I've followed here at WS, I can't get a feeling about the deceased gentleman's so called wrong doing...did he commit a crime that garnered the treatment he recieved from cops???
Right now, I don't think so. I hope to read GJ facts and info.
I truly hate the protest going on tho after recently following another cop and victim case. IMOO
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There is no crime, from jaywalking to murder that should allow mistreatment from cops. It has nothing to do with the crime or the character of the person involved. JMO
 
Hard to tell from the video angle, but IMO, Garner did not look like he was moving much air. Granted he was morbidly obese, but he did not appear to be gasping. He looked non responsive. I didn't see one cop check for a pulse. They just made sure he was cuffed on on his side. The ideal position would have been flat on his back with attention paid to his airway, by opening it. The folds of his neck and chin in that position, may have limited his breathing and occluded his airway partially or fully. When I saw the EMT arrive, I thought for sure they would give him O2. NOT. Don't cops carry O2 as well?

IMO, as an ER RN for many years,and having coded many an obese person, Mr Garner's condition was not handled well at all. Actually IMO, negligently. JMV
 
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