NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

[Gardenlady]

This decision disgusts me, by the way. Can't even bring myself to say more than that.


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[SStarr33]

NY Post: Man in choke-hold death had no throat damage

http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/man-in-chokehold-death-had-no-throat-damage-autopsy/

According to the autopsy there was no damage to the decedents windpipe or neck-bones.

What this suggests to me is that the so-called "choke-hold" was not an actual "air choke" (referred to as a "true choke") which involves compression of the upper airway (trachea, larynx or laryngopharynx) leading to asphyxia. IMO this calls into question the findings of the autopsy which concluded that the "choke-hold" contributed to Garners death.

More than likely what killed Garner was the compression of his chest as he was face down with about four officers on top of him. This is known as "positional asphyxia"(or postural asphyxia) and it is leading cause of death for persons in police custody.

This is why I believe the GJ voted not to indict. Only one officer was charged - the officer who applied the "choke-hold" and it is very likely that his actions did not cause the death of Garner. Rather it was the other officers whose collective weight bore down on Garner as he lay face down who were most responsible. All of these officers were granted immunity from prosecution in exchange for their testimony.

Interesting, so they might have charged the wrong people. I wonder if they might do another GJ with the other cops.

 

[SStarr33]

This decision disgusts me, by the way. Can't even bring myself to say more than that.


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Read Kevin's post above. They might have charged the wrong person.

 

[SCHMAE]

Now HERE we have a case that I think most Americans can get behind as an excessive use of force. Why so many officers? The video is heartbreaking and even once in the chokehold, he never moves his hands or arms in an aggressive manner towards any of them, not even a DEFENSIVE manner to protect himself. He never once made a move that looked like he was threatening anyone and is clearly unarmed. I don't believe anyone set out to murder that day but negligent homicide ? involuntary manslaughter? Something....... am I seeing something wrong here ?

 

[Gardenlady]

Read Kevin's post above. They might have charged the wrong person.

I don't think the wrong person, but would agree to "not enough people".


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[CoolJ]

In the video they say he was breathing

Oh yes I know, I heard that but I didn't see any of them checking to see if he was breathing. He was unresponsive, somebody should have been continually checking not only to see IF he was breathing, but the quality of breath. I would like to see the autopsy but I am betting that this man could have been saved.

 

[rob]

We have a system in this country, and part of it is law enforcement. If they ask you to do something, you do it. If they want to cuff you, let them.You can scream 'don't touch me' and fight the cuffs, but generally it's not going to end well for you. What would the charges or penality have been for the cigeratte selling?
Another thing is the grand jury and trial system. I believe like 23 people heard the evidence and decided it was justified. No indictment. OK, you don't like it,but that's how it is. If it was now took to court, would the jury of 12, all 12, have seen it any different? Or or we now advocating that black defendants don't go thru the same system as the rest of us?
I'm so tired of all this. I'm tired of news coverage that never uses the phrase 'resisting arrest'. They use the phrase 'unarmed black teen' but never add 'that was allegedly assaulting a police officer' Wake up people, you are not making things better.
I guess we can dismantle LE in this country and let everyone fend for them selves, then I guess whoever has the most weapons will win.

 

[Isabelle]

One inconvenient fact is that chokeholds are against policy in NYC. JMO

That must be a selective policy.

 

[Isabelle]

Oh yes I know, I heard that but I didn't see any of them checking to see if he was breathing. He was unresponsive, somebody should have been continually checking not only to see IF he was breathing, but the quality of breath. I would like to see the autopsy but I am betting that this man could have been saved.

I noticed the same, CoolJ. Does anyone know if he had a history of asthma?

 

[Isabelle]

NY Post: Man in choke-hold death had no throat damage

http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/man-in-chokehold-death-had-no-throat-damage-autopsy/

According to the autopsy there was no damage to the decedents windpipe or neck-bones.

What this suggests to me is that the so-called "choke-hold" was not an actual "air choke" (referred to as a "true choke") which involves compression of the upper airway (trachea, larynx or laryngopharynx) leading to asphyxia. IMO this calls into question the findings of the autopsy which concluded that the "choke-hold" contributed to Garners death.

More than likely what killed Garner was the compression of his chest as he was face down with about four officers on top of him. This is known as "positional asphyxia"(or postural asphyxia) and it is leading cause of death for persons in police custody.

This is why I believe the GJ voted not to indict. Only one officer was charged - the officer who applied the "choke-hold" and it is very likely that his actions did not cause the death of Garner. Rather it was the other officers whose collective weight bore down on Garner as he lay face down who were most responsible. All of these officers were granted immunity from prosecution in exchange for their testimony.

It is also highly likely that blood flow to the brain was restricted and contributed to his death. Regardless, excessive force was used and was not necessary.

 

[Elley Mae]

We have a system in this country, and part of it is law enforcement. If they ask you to do something, you do it. If they want to cuff you, let them.You can scream 'don't touch me' and fight the cuffs, but generally it's not going to end well for you. What would the charges or penality have been for the cigeratte selling?
Another thing is the grand jury and trial system. I believe like 23 people heard the evidence and decided it was justified. No indictment. OK, you don't like it,but that's how it is. If it was now took to court, would the jury of 12, all 12, have seen it any different? Or or we now advocating that black defendants don't go thru the same system as the rest of us?
I'm so tired of all this. I'm tired of news coverage that never uses the phrase 'resisting arrest'. They use the phrase 'unarmed black teen' but never add 'that was allegedly assaulting a police officer' Wake up people, you are not making things better.
I guess we can dismantle LE in this country and let everyone fend for them selves, then I guess whoever has the most weapons will win.

Exactly.

 

[SCHMAE]

Oh yes I know, I heard that but I didn't see any of them checking to see if he was breathing. He was unresponsive, somebody should have been continually checking not only to see IF he was breathing, but the quality of breath. I would like to see the autopsy but I am betting that this man could have been saved.

And why for at least 7 minutes, did no one perform CPR ? I understand they are waiting for the EMTs to arrive but no one could just try a bit of mouth to mouth ? I feel like if someone had given him some air, he may very well have survived. Are LEO's trained in CPR ? Are LEO"s allowed to administer CPR ? Does anyone know ? TIA

 

[leah]

And why for at least 7 minutes, did no one perform CPR ? I understand they are waiting for the EMTs to arrive but no one could just try a bit of mouth to mouth ? I feel like if someone had given him some air, he may very well have survived. Are LEO's trained in CPR ? Are LEO"s allowed to administer CPR ? Does anyone know ? TIA

You would certainly think they would be trained in CPR, someone on here must know that answer. Could it be because of fear of disease, so they wait for the EMTs? I really don't know.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Since none of us were there or personally know the family, I can only rely on reports like this:

"At the time of his death, the Port Richmond resident had three misdemeanor cases pending in Stapleton Criminal Court. He was free on $2,000 bail.


On Aug. 22 of last year, Garner was arrested on School Road and Bay Street, Fort Wadsworth, for allegedly driving without a license, according to a criminal complaint.


Garner, 43, gave cops a phony name and put himself in more hot water when officers allegedly found untaxed cigarettes and a small amount of marijuana in the 1998 Lincoln Navigator he was driving, the complaint said.


He was charged with aggravated unlicensed vehicle operation, false personation, possession or sale of untaxed cigarettes and marijuana possession, according to information from District Attorney Daniel Donovan's office.


Seven months later, while out on $1,000 bail, Garner was busted on March 28 for allegedly selling unstamped cigarettes on the street outside of 200 Bay St., Tompkinsville. He had 24 packs of untaxed smokes in his possession, police said.

Full article here:

http://www.silive.com/northshore/index.ssf/2014/07/eric_garner_who_died_in_police.html

The article is not a blog, but rather a Staten Island news source.

Thanks for bringing up this article. So they stamp boxes to mark they are taxed after you pay for them? I'm a non-smoker so I'm not sure how this works.

 

[ZooSleuth]

Was Eric Garner actually being arrested for selling cigarettes when he died? I know he has a history of that, but when you watch the video he is talking about breaking up a fight.

 

[Nana]

Thanks for bringing up this article. So they stamp boxes to mark they are taxed after you pay for them? I'm a non-smoker so I'm not sure how this works.

He could have rolled his own.

 

[leah]

I have only seen short videos of what happened that day. I have not seen the long video, I may have heard wrong, but it is 14 min. ? I would like to see that, is there something missing that may have swayed the grand jury to come to the conclusion? You have to wonder why when EG was shouting he couldn't breath why at least one of the cops would have stopped. Does a person get so caught up that they don't hear what a person is yelling, are they afraid to stop in fear of their life? Simple questions that are bothering me. But having had asthma since a child, and moments when it was very severe, obviously you panic when you can't get proper air. The more you panic the worse it gets, I can't imagine the panic of not getting proper air, and EG also had problems with his heart, which I'm sure also contributed.

 

[leah]

Was Eric Garner actually being arrested for selling cigarettes when he died? I know he has a history of that, but when you watch the video he is talking about breaking up a fight.

Have to admit that I've never heard of people selling loose cigarettes like this, let alone make a living off of doing that. All of this comes down to money, and the shop owners, I can see their point, but......

 

[Elley Mae]

Thanks for bringing up this article. So they stamp boxes to mark they are taxed after you pay for them? I'm a non-smoker so I'm not sure how this works.

No, not quite like that. On the bottom of each pack of smokes there is a state stamp, that means the states have paid a tax on the smokes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette_tax_stamp

New York State imposes an excise tax on cigarettes at the rate of $4.35 per package of twenty cigarettes. New York City imposes a local excise tax at the rate of $1.50 per package of twenty cigarettes, bringing the combined tax rate in New York City to $5.85. http://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/cig/cigidx.htm The average price per pack in nyc is $12.85 http://www.theawl.com/2014/08/how-much-a-pack-of-cigarettes-costs-state-by-state

IIRC he was selling illegal smokes, which means imo they were purchased in a different state, cheaper. Then he was selling them loose, (one at a time) for probably like a $1.00 a piece, jmo

 

[SCHMAE]

You would certainly think they would be trained in CPR, someone on here must know that answer. Could it be because of fear of disease, so they wait for the EMTs? I really don't know.

Well, even when the EMT arrives,t hey do not jump into action immediately by any stretch of the imagination. This is a cluster**** from the word "go''.