NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

[Zuri]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/05/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Not good.

 

[leah]

Is there a video showing EG actually selling cigarettes? I just saw him there and the cops talking, but didn't see anything else happen? I know shopkeepers called to tell the cops what he was doing, if that is true, he was across the street breaking up a fight, was he selling cigarettes before that?

 

[Zuri]

Forgive my layman's terms... Can you correct my assumptions of what you just said?

1)I did not see any respiratory effort = I can't see him breathing (I can't, his stomach doesn't rise and fall)

2)SG looks cyanotic around his lower face/mouth region = ???????? translation please :blushing:

3)pallor on his forehead = his skin looks grey on his forehead ? It does...what does that mean?? :blushing:

Thank you Zuri for being patient! I'm fascinated by you and your brethren's take on things...

Oh no problem!
Keep in mind, this is going from looking at a few seconds of the camera pointed at SG face in between the camera panning.
Respiratory Effort= Stomach moving, chest moving, visual signs of breathing
Cyanotic= darker color around lower face, bluish in tint. Harder to discern on people of color.
Pallor= Pale comparatively speaking to the rest of the face.

I will have my DH MD look at the video and see what he thinks.

 

[Zuri]

Is there a video showing EG actually selling cigarettes? I just saw him there and the cops talking, but didn't see anything else happen? I know shopkeepers called to tell the cops what he was doing, if that is true, he was across the street breaking up a fight, was he selling cigarettes before that?

They pulled out 2packs of cigs that I could see from his pocket plus a cell phone. Looked like a pack of Marlboro Menthol and another pack I couldn't tell. He may have been selling them prior, don't know. JMV

 

[JLL829]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/05/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Not good.

Its quite scary, I can't understand why they are protesting these cases when these people were criminals. I think this country has gone insane

 

[Gardenlady]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/05/justice/new-york-grand-jury-chokehold/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Not good.

I think it's great. The larger public seems to be waking up to what those who have experienced this sort of treatment first hand have been saying for literally generations.


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[Gardenlady]

Its quite scary, I can't understand why they are protesting these cases when these people were criminals. I think this country has gone insane

Criminal maybe, but not one engaged in any crime at the time. And maybe people protest because even criminals have rights and don't deserve to be choked and smothered to death by those empowered with enforcing the law.


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[bexlex]

Oh no problem!
Keep in mind, this is going from looking at a few seconds of the camera pointed at SG face in between the camera panning.
Respiratory Effort= Stomach moving, chest moving, visual signs of breathing
Cyanotic= darker color around lower face, bluish in tint. Harder to discern on people of color.
Pallor= Pale comparatively speaking to the rest of the face.

I will have my DH MD look at the video and see what he thinks.

Thank you so much!!

 

[bexlex]

No, none whatsoever, I think when that video first started you ca hear him cough/choke once and then that was it. Look at his chest and stomach... No movement at all and this is after he was just man handled by 5 cops, one who is clearly juiced up on roids(personal opinion, but I know what those guys look like). He should be breathing quite heavily under these circumstances.

I thought the cough was someone standing beside the camera-woman.... just after the pink manicure covers the screen a few times....(I shouldn't poke fun, but the first time I saw the video I thought "ewww")

 

[Zuri]

OT:http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.h...ideo_referrer=http://www.cnn.com/?hpt=sitenav

Wonderful example of LE and humanity.

 

[bexlex]

Its quite scary, I can't understand why they are protesting these cases when these people were criminals. I think this country has gone insane

I'm probably jaded after being on this forum for a while and seeing the worst most horrible types of crimes. I'm pleased to see the protests and that they are mostly peaceful.

 

[Nana]

When the LE start not responding or maybe slow down their response time are we going to see the same kind of protests... They took to long or didn't show!
Now all these people in the streets what happens if someone need LE or EMT's and they can't help who will be blamed?
Everyone had better hope and pray the protesters don't set NY on fire!

 

[CHERIE.T]

Criminal maybe, but not one engaged in any crime at the time. And maybe people protest because even criminals have rights and don't deserve to be choked and smothered to death by those empowered with enforcing the law.


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<modsnip>
Apparently Mr. Garner was committing a crime when LE was called...unless the news reports are wrong.

 

[CHERIE.T]

When the LE start not responding or maybe slow down their response time are we going to see the same kind of protests... They took to long or didn't show!
Now all these people in the streets what happens if someone need LE or EMT's and they can't help who will be blamed?
Everyone had better hope and pray the protesters don't set NY on fire!

cbm
You got that right Nana.

 

[cady]

LOL Everyone who considers themselves a law abiding citizen, but has sold something for profit and not reported it as taxable income, please raise both hands and surrender. JK JMO

 

[William N]

I could ask the same question about any number of other cases, with varied victims, varied perps, of every color of the rainbow. There was a particularly heinous one in the Boston area when I was a teen, involving two white boys who killed third brutally, for the admitted thrill of it. So I'm wondering why you picked that one case in particular to highlight, as if it represents some larger issue.

Because I think it's disingenuous to ask why this case is getting a lot of attention. We all know why, and it's kind of defeating the purpose of a discussion thread, IMO, to forbid that reason to be discussed, but oh well. To follow rules I will say what I am sure you already know - this case is garnering loads of national attention not simply because it was videoed, not simply because to so many of us the response of force was patently excessive, but also because it is indicative of a larger, systemic problem that for some reason we are not allowed to discuss here, even though it is one of, if not THE biggest issue at hand in this case.

But again, Id like to know why you chose that particular thrill killing to mention, instead of say, I dunno, Leopold and Loeb?
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First, I've read every book on the Leopold-Loeb case. Second, Leopold-Loeb happened 90 years ago. Third, books and TV specials still periodically appear on the subject.
<modsnip>

By the way, one of the perpetrators of the Christian-Newsom murders comes up for parole this coming Wednesday. Will the national media be there?

 

[katydid23]

When the LE start not responding or maybe slow down their response time are we going to see the same kind of protests... They took to long or didn't show!
Now all these people in the streets what happens if someone need LE or EMT's and they can't help who will be blamed?
Everyone had better hope and pray the protesters don't set NY on fire!

EXACTLY. And that is what I heard first hand from a room full of first responders last night. They are very angry at what they see going on. They feel that many are being very ungrateful for the dangerous things they do on a daily basis. They get calls from people to come help them get their OWN KIDS/GRANDKIDS out of their homes because they are too afraid of them. They get calls about Domestic Violence and armed robberies in the community. And they go and put their own lives at risk, no questions asked.

But they are now feeling like standing down a bit. They do not feel comfortable at this time with the way the public is grandstanding. They feel that the thugs are feeling emboldened and empowered. And it puts the first responders at a great disadvantage.

 

[Zuri]

EXACTLY. And that is what I heard first hand from a room full of first responders last night. They are very angry at what they see going on. They feel that many are being very ungrateful for the dangerous things they do on a daily basis. They get calls from people to come help them get their OWN KIDS/GRANDKIDS out of their homes because they are too afraid of them. They get calls about Domestic Violence and armed robberies in the community. And they go and put their own lives at risk, no questions asked.

But they are now feeling like standing down a bit. They do not feel comfortable at this time with the way the public is grandstanding. They feel that the thugs are feeling emboldened and empowered. And it puts the first responders at a great disadvantage.

What you have posted makes me really sad. And I completely understand why they feel this way. So much has just gotten way out of hand.

 

[leah]

katydid23, I certainly can understand their concern, I know there is no way that I could do that job, ever. Why should they then be accused of something they didn't do? Speaking about the EG case, the lack of compassion and care about a man dying on the sidewalk is what has gotten to me. It looked like excess force to me, but I'm no expert on whether the cops were going by their training or not. But I do understand when people have become hardened, and just see a criminal dying or dead on the ground, as he should have not been doing this or that, or why didn't he do this or that. He had family that loves him, and watching him in that video dying really got to me, and I hope I never become that way, where things like this don't matter.

 

[Gardenlady]

First, I've read every book on the Leopold-Loeb case. Second, Leopold-Loeb happened 90 years ago. Third, books and TV specials still periodically appear on the subject.

Why are there many cases of totally innocent black people murdered without much attention from the media or politicians?

By the way, one of the perpetrators of the Christian-Newsom murders comes up for parole this coming Wednesday. Will the national media be there?

I still don't see what relevance the Christian Newsom case has to Mr Garner's. Pretend I'm dense, could you spell out your point for me?

(For the record, I'm pretty sure I know what it is, but I don't like to assume things, and would rather have you say it forthrightly)


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