GUILTY NY - Orsolya Gaal, 51, body found in duffel bag, Queens, Apr 2022 *Arrest* #3

[Serena Angelique]

The confirmation of the two-year affair came directly from the police press conference (no tabloid media involved):

They have given us a few very shoddy sources for confirming an ongoing 2 year affair. You can’t prove anything like that based on a couple of Facebook comments that she “liked”when her killer has been known to bother several other women too. We hardly know that she reciprocated his affections.

The cops also said that she was texting “several men” to imply that she was probably scouting for male company while her husband was out of town but should you look on my phone now, I have texted 3 men this weekend that I’m not having an affair with. We have no idea what the nature of these texts were and the cops don’t always refrain from jumping to conclusions. The press is prone to twisting what the cops have said into salacious gossip, and pretty soon we are left with an ongoing game of “Telephone.”

My judgement is further influenced from having had personal experience with the NYPD getting facts in a story totally wrong before, yet going with a half baked theory anyway. I once dated a guy who was targeted as a serial rapist here in New York City, and his picture was splashed on the front pages of every tabloid in town for a whole week. Every day the story got progressively worse, and tbe NY Post and the Daily News played it all up for maximum effect, while every day LE seemed to scrape up corroborating “evidence” to support his conviction.

I was wholly surprised and I stuck with my gut instincts. I told LE that my impression was that he wasn’t capable of these crimes, but that was irrelevant. Salacious gossip replaced the truth and it took LE a whole month before they figured out that they had the wrong guy and sheepishly rehearses him from custody. They had been totally wrong but the damage had already been done, and it was irreparable. Nobody remembers that he was cleared anymore either and this is by far an isolated incident.

I also know that this is a different high profile case, with a different set of circumstances. But it’s very telling that this story has been monopolized by the gossip rags when The NY Times won’t touch it.
Meanwhile, she’s being pigeon holed as an adulteress and victim shaming has become par for the course. IMzo it is probably wise to reserve jumping to conclusions based on what we’ve been privy to thus far.

Early on, a neighbor told detectives that OG told her that she was going to the opera at LC, but obviously she was wrong about her seeing an opera.

It's been widely reported since then, included by the NYPD Chief of Detectives at the presser, that OG went with girlfriends to a show (unnamed) at Lincoln Center before returning to Forest Hills.

<snip> The NYPD supervisor said that a neighbor told detectives Gaal headed into Manhattan around 6 p.m. Friday evening, saying she was going to see the opera. She had attended the opera at Lincoln Center in the past and police were able to place her in the vicinity on Friday. But police were not able to establish immediately that she attended that night’s performance of Mozart’s Le Nozze di Figaro (The Marriage of Figaro).

Mystery Deepens in Savage Killing of Mom Left in Hockey Bag

There was no opera at Lincoln Center that night, so we know she didn’t go to the opera (and another example of shoddy investigative journalism). Chick Corea was playing 2 shows at Lincoln Center that night. That show had originally been scheduled for January but had been canceled due to the influx of Corona/Ormicon. This is verifiable on the website and calendar for Lincoln Center’s April schedule.

I’m not sure if she went to the show, but I do know that Chick Corea was playing, and if it is confirmed that she went to a performance at Lincoln Center then it is most likely that Chick Corea was the show that she went to see.

It also makes sense that had she previously purchased tickets in January for a show that had been postponed, that she would have wanted to catch it before joining her husband and older son the next day for tbe remainder of Spring Break vacation. NY city schools were on break for all of last week.

 

[Spartygirl]

Orsolya Gaal’s alleged killer David Bonola hit NYC Chipotle before arrest — NY Post
<snipped & BBM>
A day knifing a Queens mom more than 60 times and shoving her body into a duffel bag, accused killer David Bonola was at one of his usual Forest Hills haunts, a worker told The Post.

Bonola, 44, casually visited the Chipotle on Austin Street on April 20, where an employee said he was as “friendly” as ever.

“He was right here,” the worker said of Bonola, gesturing towards the register. “I think he wanted the bathroom code and a water cup.”

“I was like, ‘Hey, where have you been? I haven’t seen you in a while.’ He was like I’ve been here and there and whatever. He wanted the bathroom code and a water cup and he left. He was no different than when I saw him [the last time].”

[…]

“He would talk about his personal life, like his mom,” the manager said. “He gave my friend his personal guitar pick. He would write his music. He was a regular. It’s pretty unexpected that it would happen.”

It's scary how these monsters walk among us !!

Just everyday routines after stabbing his GF over 50 times then hauling her stabbed body off in a duffel bag. YIKES

 

[JazzCPK]

From Several reports, appears that there was no show on that night. If so what did she do before the trip to the bar?

There was indeed a show at Lincoln Center that night. Aside from the previously mentioned Chick Corea show, there was also a performance by composer Jaime Lozano. An interview with Station House manager Gabe Veras (who spoke with OG that Tuesday) mentioned her stopping in after seeing a favorite composer and she was "elated that she saw this composer live. She was very into the arts and music." If she didn't attend Chick Corea's performance, it's very possible she attended Jaime Lozano's.

That OG attended a show at Lincoln Center was also stated as fact during the NYPD briefing by Chief of Detectives James Essig. Whether OG attended a ticketed event at a major NYC venue would likely be easy to prove and I don't think LE would state it as a matter of record if it wasn't already corroborated. While there are still many unknowns in this case, I don't believe that her attending a show at Lincoln Center is one of them.

 

[aaron44]

MOO. Most likely OG attended the live American Songbook Series, "Songs by an Immigrant" concert by Mexican composer Jaime Lozano @ Lincoln Center Friday evening.

 

[Gemmie]

MOO. Most likely OG attended the live American Songbook Series, "Songs by an Immigrant" concert by Mexican composer Jaime Lozano @ Lincoln Center Friday evening.

Huh. That certainly would be an interesting choice of hers considering DB is a Hispanic immigrant.

 

[wary]

From Several reports, appears that there was no show on that night. If so what did she do before the trip to the bar?

She seems to have gone to Lincoln Center. The Metropolitan Opera was dark that night, but there were several shows.

 

[JazzCPK]

MOO. Most likely OG attended the live American Songbook Series, "Songs by an Immigrant" concert by Mexican composer Jaime Lozano @ Lincoln Center Friday evening.

That was my hunch, as well. Given OG's known like of composers and Jaime Lozano being a really popular current one (lauded by Lin-Manuel Miranda).

 

[chi123]

They have given us a few very shoddy sources for confirming an ongoing 2 year affair. You can’t prove anything like that based on a couple of Facebook comments that she “liked”when her killer has been known to bother several other women too. We hardly know that she reciprocated his affections.

The cops also said that she was texting “several men” to imply that she was probably scouting for male company while her husband was out of town but should you look on my phone now, I have texted 3 men this weekend that I’m not having an affair with. We have no idea what the nature of these texts were and the cops don’t always refrain from jumping to conclusions. The press is prone to twisting what the cops have said into salacious gossip, and pretty soon we are left with an ongoing game of “Telephone.”.

But there is no game of telephone here, we have the NYPD on video stating that they have confirmed the two had an on/off 2 year affair. Confirming that would be as simple as going through phone records. There’s no reason to believe they came to that conclusion based on a FB like from 2 years ago.

On the other hand like somebody said above, those statements about him bothering several woman came from a tabloid rag and not the police.

That comment about her having contact with 3 men that night was also from anonymous sources and not the police directly.

I haven’t seen anyone victim shaming her here, just accepting the facts as NYPD has told them to us. She absolutely did not deserve this no matter what. He’s a monster and I hope he spends the rest of his life in jail.

 

[Strangeworld]

The victim shaming I’ve seen with Orsolya’s murder unfortunately isn’t surprising but it’s definitely disgusting and I’m having real difficulty dealing with the way that this case has been handled thus far. We have all followed enough true crime cases to know how badly stories get botched in the first few weeks of a sensationalized investigation. Just a few days ago, people were insisting that her innocent sons were to blame, based solely on erroneous opinions. Now I’m supposed to believe that the victim brought her death upon herself by engaging in an alleged 2 year “affair” but I call BS on that too. It is in the killer’s best interest to implicate her but it is more probable than not that he is lying.

First, this is still a DEVELOPING story because the only story we have to go with is that of a knife wielding stalker, claiming to be a jilted lover. However, it has been confirmed that David Bonola is known to several other women for repeatedly making unwanted advances, to the extent that the cops have had to be called more than once. (NY Daily News) He made some comments on her FB page that she “liked” but so what? Is that supposed to be proof of a 2 year relationship?

I would also like to add that the NYPD isn’t infallible, and conflicting stories coming from them aren’t helping anything. One officer says that the victim unwittingly let her killer into the house, while another officer has stated that he let himself in with a key found in her barbecue. So which is it? Because it does make a difference.

This story is being covered mostly by tabloid journals like the NY Post and papers like it that make their money in being gossip rags. Just try googling “Orsolya Gaal/NYTimes and see what you get. NOTHING. The NY Times won’t touch this story though this murder happened in Queens. That is because what we know so far isn’t fit to print.

Maybe Gaal did at one point have something to do with Bonola, but I highly doubt it is anything akin to the incendiary scenario that had been painted. I don’t know what really went on, but I do know that the general public don’t know either. In the meantime,victim shaming isn’t a good look and speculation is very different than malicious character attacks.

They have given us a few very shoddy sources for confirming an ongoing 2 year affair. You can’t prove anything like that based on a couple of Facebook comments that she “liked”when her killer has been known to bother several other women too. We hardly know that she reciprocated his affections.

The cops also said that she was texting “several men” to imply that she was probably scouting for male company while her husband was out of town but should you look on my phone now, I have texted 3 men this weekend that I’m not having an affair with. We have no idea what the nature of these texts were and the cops don’t always refrain from jumping to conclusions. The press is prone to twisting what the cops have said into salacious gossip, and pretty soon we are left with an ongoing game of “Telephone.”

My judgement is further influenced from having had personal experience with the NYPD getting facts in a story totally wrong before, yet going with a half baked theory anyway. I once dated a guy who was targeted as a serial rapist here in New York City, and his picture was splashed on the front pages of every tabloid in town for a whole week. Every day the story got progressively worse, and tbe NY Post and the Daily News played it all up for maximum effect, while every day LE seemed to scrape up corroborating “evidence” to support his conviction.

I was wholly surprised and I stuck with my gut instincts. I told LE that my impression was that he wasn’t capable of these crimes, but that was irrelevant. Salacious gossip replaced the truth and it took LE a whole month before they figured out that they had the wrong guy and sheepishly rehearses him from custody. They had been totally wrong but the damage had already been done, and it was irreparable. Nobody remembers that he was cleared anymore either and this is by far an isolated incident.

I also know that this is a different high profile case, with a different set of circumstances. But it’s very telling that this story has been monopolized by the gossip rags when The NY Times won’t touch it.
Meanwhile, she’s being pigeon holed as an adulteress and victim shaming has become par for the course. IMzo it is probably wise to reserve jumping to conclusions based on what we’ve been privy to thus far.

IMO it doesn't matter if she had one, two or 100 affairs, if its truth then I'm interested because of my interest in human behaviour and criminal investigation (not for salacious curiosity). It doesn't change that she is a victim, but sometimes victims have lives that others judge, even when they are actually trying to defend or diffuse the focus on these parts of their lives. There is evidence of an affair, maybe there is evidence of multiple affairs. I just don't see how people discussing her life is any different to understanding where someone was seen prior to disappearing, or whether a perpetrator is married, etc etc etc. I also don't see the media or even the tabloids wholely obsessing over the affairs. I see them presenting a wide range of factors relating to the case, some may be false, but that happens in nearly every case. IMO if I ever read something that I find off topic, offensive, blatantly untrue or irrelevant in the media, I just skip it and read something else

 

[Arkay]

They have given us a few very shoddy sources for confirming an ongoing 2 year affair. You can’t prove anything like that based on a couple of Facebook comments that she “liked”when her killer has been known to bother several other women too. We hardly know that she reciprocated his affections.

The cops also said that she was texting “several men” to imply that she was probably scouting for male company while her husband was out of town but should you look on my phone now, I have texted 3 men this weekend that I’m not having an affair with. We have no idea what the nature of these texts were and the cops don’t always refrain from jumping to conclusions. The press is prone to twisting what the cops have said into salacious gossip, and pretty soon we are left with an ongoing game of “Telephone.”

Of course the NYC police are not giving us, the public, everything they know.
You stated earlier that you're a New Yorker, so I believe you are highly aware that they only tell us the tip of the iceberg. As they should. IMO this does not at all mean that THEY, the detectives, have only "a very few shoddy sources," and they certainly are not making their case based on Facebook likes.

As to OG texting several men, my impression was not that the police were implying that she was "scouting for male company while her husband was out of town." Their job is not to psychoanalyze what her needs were; their job is to investigate the crime and arrest the murderer. They were doing their due diligence to contact whomever she had recently texted, so that they could be thorough in ruling anyone in or out. That is the nuts and bolts of detective work.

The NYPD has solid evidence and so does the Queens D.A., or they would not make declarative statements to the public about the relationship between OG and DB. We don't have the right to know more than they are willing to tell the public, and they don't want to compromise their case.

This evidence will come out in the courtroom. At this point we have been told who did the crime, some basis for a motive, and a reassurance that the suspect is behind bars. That's all we are entitled to know until the trial.

JMO

Peace and blessings on Mr. Klein and his boys. The road ahead will be painful.

 

[SteveP]

Despite many wanting it to be ignored, it is very difficult to discuss this case without acknowledging the elephant in the room, the on again/off again two year affair between OG and DB. If OG had been killed in a random car accident, the affair would not have been part of the story, but given that she was brutally murdered by the very man that she was confirmed to had been in an intimate relationship with, at times over a period of two years, then the affair clearly is an important, even the predominant aspect of the case, not just something salacious to report to get clicks or sell copies. When an affair is brought out into the open, regardless of the persons or circumstances, it is not pretty, and often feels dirty, but it was a key ingredient of this murder, and will be a key ingredient in the prosecution of this killer. JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Check the judgemental attitudes at the door please.

from: The Rules: Etiquette & Information

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing known victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is known to be relevant to the case.

Oh, and stop the back and forth bickering. It's tiresome for other members and guests.

Thank you.

 

[CaliSun]

They have given us a few very shoddy sources for confirming an ongoing 2 year affair. You can’t prove anything like that based on a couple of Facebook comments that she “liked”when her killer has been known to bother several other women too. We hardly know that she reciprocated his affections.

The cops also said that she was texting “several men” to imply that she was probably scouting for male company while her husband was out of town but should you look on my phone now, I have texted 3 men this weekend that I’m not having an affair with. We have no idea what the nature of these texts were and the cops don’t always refrain from jumping to conclusions. The press is prone to twisting what the cops have said into salacious gossip, and pretty soon we are left with an ongoing game of “Telephone.”

My judgement is further influenced from having had personal experience with the NYPD getting facts in a story totally wrong before, yet going with a half baked theory anyway. I once dated a guy who was targeted as a serial rapist here in New York City, and his picture was splashed on the front pages of every tabloid in town for a whole week. Every day the story got progressively worse, and tbe NY Post and the Daily News played it all up for maximum effect, while every day LE seemed to scrape up corroborating “evidence” to support his conviction.

I was wholly surprised and I stuck with my gut instincts. I told LE that my impression was that he wasn’t capable of these crimes, but that was irrelevant. Salacious gossip replaced the truth and it took LE a whole month before they figured out that they had the wrong guy and sheepishly rehearses him from custody. They had been totally wrong but the damage had already been done, and it was irreparable. Nobody remembers that he was cleared anymore either and this is by far an isolated incident.

I also know that this is a different high profile case, with a different set of circumstances. But it’s very telling that this story has been monopolized by the gossip rags when The NY Times won’t touch it.
Meanwhile, she’s being pigeon holed as an adulteress and victim shaming has become par for the course. IMzo it is probably wise to reserve jumping to conclusions based on what we’ve been privy to thus far.

There was no opera at Lincoln Center that night, so we know she didn’t go to the opera (and another example of shoddy investigative journalism). Chick Corea was playing 2 shows at Lincoln Center that night. That show had originally been scheduled for January but had been canceled due to the influx of Corona/Ormicon. This is verifiable on the website and calendar for Lincoln Center’s April schedule.

I’m not sure if she went to the show, but I do know that Chick Corea was playing, and if it is confirmed that she went to a performance at Lincoln Center then it is most likely that Chick Corea was the show that she went to see.

It also makes sense that had she previously purchased tickets in January for a show that had been postponed, that she would have wanted to catch it before joining her husband and older son the next day for tbe remainder of Spring Break vacation. NY city schools were on break for all of last week.

IMO the proof of the affair the NYPD has is not being published to spare the husband and family further humiliation and grief. The sordid details of the affair are irrelevant for the general public, simply stating it was on and off for 2 years must be devastating for all who know her. It’s best the disgusting details stay out of the media. The Facebook likes and perps story are not “proof” at all, much, much more must have been corroborated.

 

[Serena Angelique]

MOO. Most likely OG attended the live American Songbook Series, "Songs by an Immigrant" concert by Mexican composer Jaime Lozano @ Lincoln Center Friday evening.

That is potentially likely too as that artist might have appealed to her, given her apparent appreciation for Latin culture.

I have added the program for Jaime Lozano’s April 15th performance at Lincoln Center. The show was supposed to start at 7:30, and it was 90 minutes long. That means it would have been over by 9pm, but she didn’t go to The Station House until 11:30, which is 2.5 hours after the show was over.

Assuming she took public transportation, it still wouldn’t have taken 2.5 hours to get home, so the timeline for seeing Corea works better for getting to the Station House closer to the time that the staff said she arrived. It is also very possible that she went out with friends in Manhattan right after the show instead of going straight back to Queens, but it would be nice if anyone could definitively verify which show she actually attended.
Jaime Lozano's Songs by an Immigrant · Lincoln Center

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Hi everyone! I just heard about this over the weekend and I came here of course. But this is the third thread. Is there anyone that can give me a brief synopsis of what's going on here?

Thanks!

 

[Electric Sheep]

They have given us a few very shoddy sources for confirming an ongoing 2 year affair. You can’t prove anything like that based on a couple of Facebook comments that she “liked”when her killer has been known to bother several other women too. We hardly know that she reciprocated his affections.

The cops also said that she was texting “several men” to imply that she was probably scouting for male company while her husband was out of town but should you look on my phone now, I have texted 3 men this weekend that I’m not having an affair with. We have no idea what the nature of these texts were and the cops don’t always refrain from jumping to conclusions. The press is prone to twisting what the cops have said into salacious gossip, and pretty soon we are left with an ongoing game of “Telephone.”

My judgement is further influenced from having had personal experience with the NYPD getting facts in a story totally wrong before, yet going with a half baked theory anyway. I once dated a guy who was targeted as a serial rapist here in New York City, and his picture was splashed on the front pages of every tabloid in town for a whole week. Every day the story got progressively worse, and tbe NY Post and the Daily News played it all up for maximum effect, while every day LE seemed to scrape up corroborating “evidence” to support his conviction.

I was wholly surprised and I stuck with my gut instincts. I told LE that my impression was that he wasn’t capable of these crimes, but that was irrelevant. Salacious gossip replaced the truth and it took LE a whole month before they figured out that they had the wrong guy and sheepishly rehearses him from custody. They had been totally wrong but the damage had already been done, and it was irreparable. Nobody remembers that he was cleared anymore either and this is by far an isolated incident.

I also know that this is a different high profile case, with a different set of circumstances. But it’s very telling that this story has been monopolized by the gossip rags when The NY Times won’t touch it.
Meanwhile, she’s being pigeon holed as an adulteress and victim shaming has become par for the course. IMzo it is probably wise to reserve jumping to conclusions based on what we’ve been privy to thus far.

There was no opera at Lincoln Center that night, so we know she didn’t go to the opera (and another example of shoddy investigative journalism). Chick Corea was playing 2 shows at Lincoln Center that night. That show had originally been scheduled for January but had been canceled due to the influx of Corona/Ormicon. This is verifiable on the website and calendar for Lincoln Center’s April schedule.

I’m not sure if she went to the show, but I do know that Chick Corea was playing, and if it is confirmed that she went to a performance at Lincoln Center then it is most likely that Chick Corea was the show that she went to see.

It also makes sense that had she previously purchased tickets in January for a show that had been postponed, that she would have wanted to catch it before joining her husband and older son the next day for tbe remainder of Spring Break vacation. NY city schools were on break for all of last week.

I thought Chick Corea died last year.

 

[JazzCPK]

I thought Chick Corea died last year.

It was a tribute show "Celebrating Chick Corea"

 

[tlcya]

@Kristin Esq. OG well liked housewife, STAHM, with husband and two teen boys. Her body was found stuffed in a hockey bag on a sidewalk by dog walker. Trail of blood led to her home a few blocks away where her 13 year old son was. LE briefly questioned him and then released him to an adult family member. Older teen and dad were out of state scouting college for the 17 year old.

a lot of the case discussion was centered on members of the household because the woman had been stabbed 59 times and clearly put up one heck of a fight. Attack seems to be rage fueled and personally driven.

Press quoted inside sources from within days of the murder about possible affairs with men and one of them having killed her.

A former handyman that LE states victim OG had an affair with in the past has now confessed. That's the nutshell version.

 

[SteveP]

Hi everyone! I just heard about this over the weekend and I came here of course. But this is the third thread. Is there anyone that can give me a brief synopsis of what's going on here?

Thanks!

Shortly after midnight, in the wee minutes of early Sat morning, Apr 16, Orsolya Gaal, a wife and mother of two sons, came back to her upper-middle-class Forest Hills home after allegedly seeing a performance at the Lincoln Center, with friends, and stopping off for a nightcap at a neighborhood restaurant/bar. Her husband and oldest son were out of state doing a college tour, but her 13-year old son was at home, apparently upstairs in his bedroom. Minutes after arriving home, David Bonola, a man that NYPD has confirmed was both a handyman to the family, and her on again/off again intimate partner of two years, allegedly came to her house and was either voluntarily let in, or used a spare key he knew the location of to get in. Apparently an argument ensued over the affair that had again recently ended, yet again, and DB allegedly brandished a kitchen knife, slashed her throat, and stabbed her some 58 times. Most of the attack allegedly took place on the first floor and in the basement, At some point he stuffed her body into a hockey bag that belonged to one of her sons. After staying at her home for some 3 1/2 hours, he left, and was seen on multiple cams, rolling the blood-dripping bag several blocks from her home, where it was found shortly before 8am on Saturday morning. LE were able to follow the trail of blood back to her house, where they found the crime scene, and found her son, who had apparently slept through the entire thing and had no idea what had happened to his mother. He was taken in by LE and questioned, and released. By mid-week, after seeing several multiple cams and videos, LE were seemingly honing in on the handyman, whom they apparently had learned of the affair with, and after finding and testing the clothing he wore and some bloody boots in his trash, he was taken in for questioning, confessed and was charged. That is only the very briefest account of the story, and leaves out many details, but that at least gives you a starting point. HTH.

 

[HilaryHormone]

Shortly after midnight, in the wee minutes of early Sat morning, Apr 16, Orsolya Gaal, a wife and mother of two sons, came back to her upper-middle-class Forest Hills home after allegedly seeing a performance at the Lincoln Center, with friends, and stopping off for a nightcap at a neighborhood restaurant/bar. Her husband and oldest son were out of state doing a college tour, but her 13-year old son was at home, apparently upstairs in his bedroom. Minutes after arriving home, David Bonola, a man that NYPD has confirmed was both a handyman to the family, and her on again/off again intimate partner of two years, allegedly came to her house and was either voluntarily let in, or used a spare key he knew the location of to get in. Apparently an argument ensued over the affair that had again ended, and DB apparently brandished a kitchen knife, slashed her throat, and stabbed her some 58 times. Most of the attack allegedly took place on the first floor and in the basement, At some point he stuffed her body into a hockey bag that belonged to one of her sons. After staying at her home for some 3 1/2 hours, he left, and was seen on multiple cams, rolling the blood-dripping bag several blocks from her home, where it was found shortly before 8am on Saturday morning. LE were able to follow the trail of blood back to her house, where they found the crime scene, and found her son, who had apparently slept through the entire thing and had no idea what had happened to his mother. He was taken in by LE and questioned, and released. By mid-week, after seeing several multiple cams and videos, LE were seemingly honing in on the handyman, whom they apparently had learned of the affair with, and after finding and testing the clothing he wore and somme bloody boots in his trash, he was taken in for questioning, confessed and was charged. That is only the very briefest account of the story, and leaves out many details, but that at least gives you a starting point. HTH.

No disrespect towards OG’s memory at all, this is a tragic story… reading it like this really gives me straight to TV movie vibes though. It’s all just so bizarre.