NY NY - Patrick Alford, 7, Brooklyn, 22 Jan 2010 - #2

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No, polygraphs are not always effective. But it's a start.

And I guarantee you if she had failed people would not let up. She would be accused more than she already is. She'd probably still be at Rikers. Even if it is "just a polygraph".
 
people who pass polygraphs are 1. telling the truth 2. pathological liars or 3. people who have convinced themselves of their own version of the truth.

if bio mom passed a polygraph, I can't say which of the three categories she falls into.
 
SheWhoMustNotBeNamed said:
No, polygraphs are not always effective. But it's a start.

And I guarantee you if she had failed people would not let up. She would be accused more than she already is. She'd probably still be at Rikers. Even if it is "just a polygraph".
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You're right, if she had failed people would automatically assume she was guilty.
 
Fyrecat said:
I believe that polygraphs aren't always effective. I also wonder if perhaps if she didn't do it, if a relative or friend did.

I believe that a child alone would have generated attention at night. I believe really that this child would not have willingly gone away with anyone unless he knew them, even somewhat.

I wonder if there was anyone in the building who knew this child, who might have taken him.

Something odd about this.
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So why isn't LE asking the foster mom what the heck happened here? She was the last one to see this child. She was the one that let him runaway? Did she call LE the minute he ran? I need to refresh my memory. I agree the child would not have run off if he didn't think he could get back to his mom. If he knew his mom was in jail, I think he would have stayed put until someone told him his mother was out.

Yes, someone in the building knew the child - the foster mom and the other children in her care.

I'm frustrated that LE has not appeared to follow through with the foster mom.

Salem
 
Salem said:
So why isn't LE asking the foster mom what the heck happened here? She was the last one to see this child. She was the one that let him runaway? Did she call LE the minute he ran? I need to refresh my memory. I agree the child would not have run off if he didn't think he could get back to his mom. If he knew his mom was in jail, I think he would have stayed put until someone told him his mother was out.

Yes, someone in the building knew the child - the foster mom and the other children in her care.

I'm frustrated that LE has not appeared to follow through with the foster mom.

Salem
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I also wish they would put more pressure on the foster mom. Not only was she the last one to see him, she has changed her story several times. And her story does not match up with what Patrick's sister said happened. (http://blog.silive.com/around_the_b...and_kin_keep_the_faith_for_young_patrick.html)

I'm not sure when she called LE. I know that she was seen on surveillance video looking for him. But they never said if Patrick was seen on that video. Or how long it took between Patrick being gone for her to be out looking. Or how long after that it took for her to make the call.

I don't think biomom was in jail when Patrick presumably ran. They had had a supervised visit just 2 weeks prior. (January 9 - http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/west_brighton_mom_insists_she.html)
 
If I was a Foster parent, and the child I had in my care went missing, I'd look around for him, call building security, call the agency i worked with, and then call the police, not sure in which order.
Kids do wander off. I can't count the number of kids who get seperated from adults in malls around the holidays, or get lost on beaches in the Summer. I just wonder if perhaps this child didn't come in contact with someone in the building who knew him, and perhaps knows more but doesn't want to tell, for whatever reason.

And if I told you the stories of bio parents, who 'stalk' their children and Foster parents, it would take hours. I'm not sure that this mom, or someone she knew was not somehow involved.
 
Fyrecat said:
If I was a Foster parent, and the child I had in my care went missing, I'd look around for him, call building security, call the agency i worked with, and then call the police, not sure in which order.
Kids do wander off. I can't count the number of kids who get seperated from adults in malls around the holidays, or get lost on beaches in the Summer. I just wonder if perhaps this child didn't come in contact with someone in the building who knew him, and perhaps knows more but doesn't want to tell, for whatever reason.

And if I told you the stories of bio parents, who 'stalk' their children and Foster parents, it would take hours. I'm not sure that this mom, or someone she knew was not somehow involved.
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BBM. Yes, kids wander off. But kids do not wander off wearing only a t-shirt when the temperatures are around 0.

Someone in the building may have seen something, though. We just don't know. LE interviewed everyone in the building. We don't know what they saw or said. Someone very well may have already told them they saw Patrick. Just because we haven't been told doesn't mean nobody said anything.
 
Merry Christmas, Patrick!!!

I hope you ARE safe somewhere with family. Getting ready to be tucked into a warm bed and wait for Santa to come. Maybe even watching him on NORAD right now.
 
JLMcKenna83 said:
Thanks SWMNBM, I had read that but it just didn't compute for me.

ACS is not who you would call if you have a drug problem. Even if you wanted to stay clean for your children.

There are 1,000's of programs in the city for drug users who need help. I guess I'm still not understanding her logic in calling them. (ACS) It just opened a whole different can of worms for her than what she actually needed.
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If I needed to call someone tomorrow for the children of a family member with a drug problem, I would have to research who to call. And I have several family members with addictions. If I didn't have the knowledge of not wanting the children to end up in foster care, that is who I would call as well.

What are the odds that Patrick's mother would have sat there and gone "Hmm... maybe there is a better option than ACS? Maybe there are many programs for just this type of thing? Because ACS might take my kid and I might never get him back. Perhaps I should take time to research this more, even though I am desperate enough to call them to begin with."

People have the impression that if you are hospitalized, or go to rehab that your child can go into foster care for a few weeks. Then you can come back and be a happy family again.

I am guessing that was her impression as well. She didn't realize that she was opening a can of worms and not getting the correct assistance. Otherwise, I am guessing she would have called a better option.


Fyrecat said:
I believe that polygraphs aren't always effective. I also wonder if perhaps if she didn't do it, if a relative or friend did.

I believe that a child alone would have generated attention at night. I believe really that this child would not have willingly gone away with anyone unless he knew them, even somewhat.

I wonder if there was anyone in the building who knew this child, who might have taken him.

Something odd about this.
Click to expand...

A barely walking 18 month - 2 year old doesn't generate attention walking out of a store, through a huge parking lot, across a small road, over the sidewalk... and then into the street... the first person who pays attention is the one who runs her over and realizes he just killed a baby.

A 2 year old can get on a bus alone and ride around for a while and not be immediately noticed.

With a 7 year old at night people might go "hmmm he looks a little young to be out alone.... but it's not my place to interfere." It is also entirely possible that people would be afraid of accusations themselves if they approached him...

A toddler walks out of her daycare, over to a park where she stands next to a pond for a while. People see her standing completely alone on the edge of a large body of water. No one does anything. She falls in and drowns. People were afraid they would be accused of hurting or trying to abduct the child if they touched her.

There are so many possibilities. But we have seen too many cases where a neighbor took the child within a matter of a minute or so. A neighboring house, or apartment. He may not have needed to be outside alone for very long at all for something to happen.
 
Court decisions that made news in 2010

[snip]

On January 22, seven-year-old Staten Islander Patrick Alford disappeared from a Brooklyn foster home where he had been temporarily placed by the city’s Administration For Children’s Services following his remand to that agency by the Family Court.

The placement sprang from allegations that his mother, Jennifer Rodriguez, who had been arrested for shoplifting and is struggling with a drug problem, neglected the child and his younger sister.

Although several family members urged Judge Terrence McElrath to place Patrick with them, he opted instead for temporary foster care.

On Jan. 29, McElrath, believing that Rodriguez knew the whereabouts of her son, took the extraordinary step of remanding her to jail. Four days later, however, he released her on condition that she cooperate with efforts to find Patrick. According to the city’s attorney, she fully complied.

In October, Rodriguez initiated a federal lawsuit seeking to hold the city liable for Patrick’s disappearance. Two weeks ago, she was arrested for the third time this year, the latest allegation being that she waved a knife at a man who came to her home to retrieve his wallet.

As the year ends, Patrick remains missing. Still, McElrath’s decision to place him in foster care can’t reasonably be evaluated without knowledge of all the facts and circumstances that prompted it.

Family Court judges make potentially life-altering decisions every day, and they, like the rest of us, do not have the benefit of hindsight.

More: http://www.silive.com/opinion/danielleddy/index.ssf/2010/12/court_decisions_that_made_news.html
 
SheWhoMustNotBeNamed said:
After looking over some bus info, I believe that if IF IF IF Patrick got on a bus, it would have been the #82. This bus has two stops near his apartment complex, one in an under 5 minute walk. The other, toward the Parkway, in a 10-15 minute walk. This bus stops every 15 minutes.

Patrick was reportedly last seen around 9:00 pm. If foster-mom didn't go with Patrick to the trash, it may have been 5-10 minutes before she noticed he was gone. He could have gotten on that bus from just before 9:00 to about 9:15. Or within 15 minutes before or after that, depending on how long before she noticed he was missing.

Another thing about this bus is that it goes to Coney Island as a final destination. Which...isn't Staten Island, but it is in that direction. (I haven't yet looked at bus connections beyond that point into Staten Island, or sex offenders at that location. Hopefully will get to that this weekend, too.)
Click to expand...

Copied a post of mine from Patrick's first thread.

One of my theories has always been that Patrick tried to run away and maybe even made it onto a bus. Does anyone know for sure if the buses in this area have video surveillance? I know many large cities do, but some do not.

I wonder if any of the buses (especially #82) had their videos analyzed as one of the nearly 100 videos looked at? I know they interviewed some bus drivers. And I assume that they would have looked at any video if it was available. Just trying to think out loud again and maybe rule things out.
 
I4G, I just wanted to say here that I appreciate that you post for Patrick and keep his thread up to date.

Prayers that he is found soon.
 
SheWhoMustNotBeNamed said:
Copied a post of mine from Patrick's first thread.

One of my theories has always been that Patrick tried to run away and maybe even made it onto a bus. Does anyone know for sure if the buses in this area have video surveillance? I know many large cities do, but some do not.

I wonder if any of the buses (especially #82) had their videos analyzed as one of the nearly 100 videos looked at? I know they interviewed some bus drivers. And I assume that they would have looked at any video if it was available. Just trying to think out loud again and maybe rule things out.
Click to expand...

good question SWMNBN. I always thought he got picked by a creep posing as a concerned citizen while Patrick was standing at the bus stop. if you think about it, while many New Yorkers have many beefs about city bus drivers, I'd like to think that if a child, underdressed for the winter, got on a bus alone at night, perhaps without bus fare even, that the bus driver would make some contact with police to have them check the kid out.

obviously that did not happen, but we don't know if he ever made it on a bus.
 
webrocket said:
good question SWMNBN. I always thought he got picked by a creep posing as a concerned citizen while Patrick was standing at the bus stop. if you think about it, while many New Yorkers have many beefs about city bus drivers, I'd like to think that if a child, underdressed for the winter, got on a bus alone at night, perhaps without bus fare even, that the bus driver would make some contact with police to have them check the kid out.

obviously that did not happen, but we don't know if he ever made it on a bus.
Click to expand...

Good points. But, I posted a few weeks ago about a TWO year old in Miami (?) who got on a city bus, alone, and no one said anything. Not the bus driver, not any of the other bus patrons. He rode around half the city before someone thought enough of it to tell the driver.

Granted, it was not below zero, and other adults got on the bus at the same time. Getting picked up while waiting for the bus is a good thought, though. The time window for that would have been about 10 minutes...but abductions have happened in far less time than that.
 


I hate how Patrick's case is so sporadic. No news for weeks, then something to garner discussion for a few days. Then back to nothing. But I suppose it's better than nothing at all. :)

Still thinking of you Patrick. May you be found before the 1 year mark.
 
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