NY - Rita Tangredi, 31, and Colleen McNamee, 20, murdered, 1993-94, John Biltroff *GUILTY* - #2

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LR1 said:
I agree about the profile being off on the low side. Late 40's early 50's is where I would guess he would be today. I've seen where the average first kill for serial killers is around 28. There's a lot about this guy that would make him a good candidate for the other murders. age, race, opportunity, location, nice guy, nondescript, and the big one, killed more than one young white sex worker with a cooling off period in between. I'll hold off for now but I'm about ready to declare that I will be surprised if this is not the guy.

Is that a horse corral directly behind his house? sure looks like one, maybe his neighbors.
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In one of the articles I read, his neighbor said Bittrolff helped him clear his yard so the neighbor could make room for his horses.
 
Gospelized reporting in Bittrolff’s case,

“woodchips were found in both crime scenes”...

Assistant District Attorney Robert Biancavilla; the similarities between these two crimes, your honor, are remarkable." He added later that the significance of the wood chips "is that for his entire adult life Mr. Bittrolff has been a carpenter.

Yes, Woodchips point to Bittrolff’s guilt. Only Bittrolff’s?

Rita Tangredi murdered 1993, Colleen McNamee murdered 1994.

It took them 20 years to solve that crime. Despite they had DNA.

Let’s take a look at the word “Solve”.... How did they solve it? Did they develop Bittrolff’s name as a suspect based on the “significance” of woodchips? Of course not.

The fire extinguished itself. Brother was arrested and his DNA set off an alarm on the database. Simple as that.

They didn’t even know who Bittrolff was, they did not pursue the obvious significance of woodchips evidence, they did not even bother to make that piece of information public, so that someone could tip. Just think, if they made the woodchips detail public, the pages of websleuths would be flooded with comments like “look at a woodworker guy, look at a carpenter”.

They sat on the evidence for twenty years, and now they are sitting on the GB4 evidence.

Yes, woodchips tell a lot about guilt.
 
Emre E said:
Gospelized reporting in Bittrolff’s case,

“woodchips were found in both crime scenes”...

Assistant District Attorney Robert Biancavilla; the similarities between these two crimes, your honor, are remarkable." He added later that the significance of the wood chips "is that for his entire adult life Mr. Bittrolff has been a carpenter.

Yes, Woodchips point to Bittrolff’s guilt. Only Bittrolff’s?

Rita Tangredi murdered 1993, Colleen McNamee murdered 1994.

It took them 20 years to solve that crime. Despite they had DNA.

Let’s take a look at the word “Solve”.... How did they solve it? Did they develop Bittrolff’s name as a suspect based on the “significance” of woodchips? Of course not.

The fire extinguished itself. Brother was arrested and his DNA set off an alarm on the database. Simple as that.

They didn’t even know who Bittrolff was, they did not pursue the obvious significance of woodchips evidence, they did not even bother to make that piece of information public, so that someone could tip. Just think, if they made the woodchips detail public, the pages of websleuths would be flooded with comments like “look at a woodworker guy, look at a carpenter”.

They sat on the evidence for twenty years, and now they are sitting on the GB4 evidence.

Yes, woodchips tell a lot about guilt.
Click to expand...

Have to say that I agree with you to a point, Emre. They have Bittrolff on the DNA, that much is cut and dry. But even the worst defense attorney would argue that dna obtained from semen means simply that Bittrolff was the last person to sleep with both of these women. Prove that they were prostitutes and local, and that easily becomes another point in Bittrolff's favor...he frequently solicited the services of local prostitutes, two that he slept with just happened to end up dead. Unusual coincidence, sure. Still doesn't prove he killed them, only that he slept with them. If the state argues that woodchips were found near both bodies, and Bittrolff is a carpenter, a good defense attorney is going to throw a big "so what?" at the jury. He's already admitted he slept with these women, hell, maybe he hired them for a car date in his work vehicle. Or maybe woodchips are just woodchips and could have come from anywhere or anyone these women came in contact with after Bittrolff had sex with them and went on his merry way.

Do I believe Bittrolff committed the murders of McNamee and Tangredi? Yes, I think he probably did. But if you put me on a jury and offered me nothing but dna obtained from semen and woodchips found on the bodies, the only thing I could conclude with any certainty was that Bittrolff was the last person to sleep with two murdered prostitutes. To get me to convict on a murder charge, I would need proof that he committed murder, not just sex for hire.

Hopefully, the state has a lot more on Bittrolff then what they are telling the press. In fact, I think they must if they are bothering to take him to trial for two murders that occurred 20 years ago. I do know that Spota has said Bittrolff made statements after his arrest that were significant. Let's hope those statements were VERY significant.
 
Mountain_Kat said:
The only thing the term "half-breed" says to me is that LISK is probably older than most profilers believe him to be. Honestly, I can't imagine a phrase life that coming out of the mouth of someone under 50.

ETA: Then again, I can't imagine someone in their 40's saying that the murders of 4 women was "mean", so what do I know? :dunno:
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Cher's number one song in 1973…Half-Breed
 
Mountain_Kat said:
Have to say that I agree with you to a point, Emre. They have Bittrolff on the DNA, that much is cut and dry. But even the worst defense attorney would argue that dna obtained from semen means simply that Bittrolff was the last person to sleep with both of these women. Prove that they were prostitutes and local, and that easily becomes another point in Bittrolff's favor...he frequently solicited the services of local prostitutes, two that he slept with just happened to end up dead. Unusual coincidence, sure. Still doesn't prove he killed them, only that he slept with them. If the state argues that woodchips were found near both bodies, and Bittrolff is a carpenter, a good defense attorney is going to throw a big "so what?" at the jury. He's already admitted he slept with these women, hell, maybe he hired them for a car date in his work vehicle. Or maybe woodchips are just woodchips and could have come from anywhere or anyone these women came in contact with after Bittrolff had sex with them and went on his merry way.

Do I believe Bittrolff committed the murders of McNamee and Tangredi? Yes, I think he probably did. But if you put me on a jury and offered me nothing but dna obtained from semen and woodchips found on the bodies, the only thing I could conclude with any certainty was that Bittrolff was the last person to sleep with two murdered prostitutes. To get me to convict on a murder charge, I would need proof that he committed murder, not just sex for hire.

Hopefully, the state has a lot more on Bittrolff then what they are telling the press. In fact, I think they must if they are bothering to take him to trial for two murders that occurred 20 years ago. I do know that Spota has said Bittrolff made statements after his arrest that were significant. Let's hope those statements were VERY significant.
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If I recall it right, in a report (in a video report a blonde mid age correspondent is saying) state claims woodchips is "IN" the bodies, implying sexual battery perhaps? I strongly doubt a young man doing that unless he is uncontrollably sick, sexual battery is mostly a crime for 35+. I think they mean wood chips got there somehow. (I'll try to find that for you)

They also say they have the mystery trophy evidence, more precisely as to what I heard exactly on the press conference; Spota says the women have a piece of their wardrobe missing, curious enough he doesn't conclude saying they found the pieces in Bitrolff's possession. It's more like an open ended information.

Did they find it? I discussed that in an earlier post and found very interesting why the prosecution is not going for first degree. Which would make it a piece of cake, to land on a second degree plea deal, provided your hand is so strong.

The disturbing part in my above recap is they did not know what to make of wood chips for twenty years. Here's an idea, show the wood chips to Blue the dog and he’ll go like; “Woof, woof, it’s a carpenter.” But they are saying he is a carpenter, after he is apprehended. Nice.

There is something called recidivism. Meaning, perps will be perps. For New York State it is above 65% in sexual crimes. That means you have a rape case, the perp already did time (i.e. convicted) for it. If you include offenses that are not brought to court, not charged etc, recidivism rate goes way higher than 65%.

In McNamee and Tangredi cases you need to find a rapist, with a very high probability of past (violent) offense, in the age bracket 20-30 (depending on the nature of the sex acts), you probably have his pubic hair and guess what, he is a woodworker...

In reality? They could not develop Bittrolff's name in twenty years, they did not make a piece of information public, like saying; “we may be looking for a carpenter” so that people could run though their recollections about him. “Wood chips” is probably the next best thing to his biz card. You know what, if just a slight piece of that information was made public, I seriously believe that TheForeigner could come up with his exact name and criminal history running through some online carpenters' guild.

But they couldn't find him, they couldn’t name him, until he fell on their lap.

Now let’s go theoretical, say Bittrolff is LISK, that he killed at least 4, perhaps 10 more people including a baby.

You are LE, you were too lazy/idiot to make a productive work out of wood chips evidence and start the whole cigarette butt scavenging years ago. Put yourself in shoes of someone in Law Enforcement, say Spota, wouldn’t you be wishing that he is not LISK.

Waiting for the trial and hoping to see the mystery evidence.
 
Mountain_Kat said:
Have to say that I agree with you to a point, Emre. They have Bittrolff on the DNA, that much is cut and dry. But even the worst defense attorney would argue that dna obtained from semen means simply that Bittrolff was the last person to sleep with both of these women. Prove that they were prostitutes and local, and that easily becomes another point in Bittrolff's favor...he frequently solicited the services of local prostitutes, two that he slept with just happened to end up dead. Unusual coincidence, sure. Still doesn't prove he killed them, only that he slept with them. If the state argues that woodchips were found near both bodies, and Bittrolff is a carpenter, a good defense attorney is going to throw a big "so what?" at the jury. He's already admitted he slept with these women, hell, maybe he hired them for a car date in his work vehicle. Or maybe woodchips are just woodchips and could have come from anywhere or anyone these women came in contact with after Bittrolff had sex with them and went on his merry way.

Do I believe Bittrolff committed the murders of McNamee and Tangredi? Yes, I think he probably did. But if you put me on a jury and offered me nothing but dna obtained from semen and woodchips found on the bodies, the only thing I could conclude with any certainty was that Bittrolff was the last person to sleep with two murdered prostitutes. To get me to convict on a murder charge, I would need proof that he committed murder, not just sex for hire.

Hopefully, the state has a lot more on Bittrolff then what they are telling the press. In fact, I think they must if they are bothering to take him to trial for two murders that occurred 20 years ago. I do know that Spota has said Bittrolff made statements after his arrest that were significant. Let's hope those statements were VERY significant.
Click to expand...

Agree with you on the probable defense but I don't think he will get away with murder, two to be more accurate, because he doesn't look *advertiser censored* enough.
 
Don't you think this will light a fire under LE's A55 to start releasing some information on other cases? The whole wood chip thing might have had this guy caught 20 years ago if they released that information. It would have at least narrowed down who the community was looking at and forced them to think about people in that profession. Strength in numbers.
 
The pose, along with the possible woodworker info and the fact that one of the victims was found near an abandoned housing development would have given the public something to jog someone's memory. Add to that the fact that Rita was hitchhiking and Colleen got into a blue car... This case may have been solved YEARS AGO.
 
mcme said:
In the body could mean in the open wound in the head that the brain came out of, not necessarily because of sexual assault. Maybe showing they were killed the same way in the same place.
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....and therefore not a SK "Calling Card" but completely incidental due to the place where these two particular murders were carried out.
 
Emre E said:
They could not develop Bittrolff's name in twenty years, they did not make a piece of information public, like saying; “we may be looking for a carpenter” so that people could run though their recollections about him. “Wood chips” is probably the next best thing to his biz card. You know what, if just a slight piece of that information was made public, I seriously believe that TheForeigner could come up with his exact name and criminal history running through some online carpenters' guild.
Click to expand...

I doubt it; as he was probably only a two-bit handyman anyway, I'll bet Bittrolff wasn't in a carpenter's guild or anything similar (doesn't seem like the sort to join clubs). I'm no fan of the way LE gets things done (or, rather, doesn't) out in Suffolk County, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that they didn't float the wood chip info to the public for the same reason that they don't play, for the public, tapes of LISK calling Melissa Barthelemy's sister, i.e. a huge response from the public that would lead to nothing. There's nothing LE has a reasonable capacity to act on when faced with 500 responses of "I know a carpenter who lives on Long Island and who is really creepy!".
 
topratedsleuth said:
I doubt it; as he was probably only a two-bit handyman anyway, I'll bet Bittrolff wasn't in a carpenter's guild or anything similar (doesn't seem like the sort to join clubs). I'm no fan of the way LE gets things done (or, rather, doesn't) out in Suffolk County, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that they didn't float the wood chip info to the public for the same reason that they don't play, for the public, tapes of LISK calling Melissa Barthelemy's sister, i.e. a huge response from the public that would lead to nothing. There's nothing LE has a reasonable capacity to act on when faced with 500 responses of "I know a carpenter who lives on Long Island and who is really creepy!".
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Sometimes hundreds of persons of interest are interviewed in murder investigations when there are no leads. If LE looked at carpenters living within a couple mile radius of manorville dump site they would have come up with bittrolff fairly quickly. I'm sure there are plenty of carpenters in Manorville but he would have stood out for his prior arrests.
 
topratedsleuth said:
for the same reason that they don't play, for the public, tapes of LISK calling Melissa Barthelemy's sister".
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I don't agree. Though he may not have been caught even his name was given to police. Look at Gacy, and Dahmer police was one the scene while he was committing one of his crimes. Regarding the sound bytes of calls to Sis Amanda. I'll get to that.
 
mcme said:
In the body could mean in the open wound in the head that the brain came out of, not necessarily because of sexual assault. Maybe showing they were killed the same way in the same place.
Click to expand...

Wood material inside the skull is of course another possibility, or maybe they were forced down and inhaled the material. These alternatives make the situation way worse for Mr. Bittrolff.
 
LindsayLohan6 said:
If LE looked at carpenters living within a couple mile radius of manorville dump site they would have come up with bittrolff fairly quickly.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing there was no "Carpenters" section in the local yellow pages but that, if there were, Bittrolff wasn't listed there. He was a handyman with a truck, and some people might call that a "carpenter"; there were undoubtedly several hundred people in the area who were at least as much "carpenters" as Bittrollf was. And there was no John Bittrolff DNA on file, of course. So I guess they could have asked for DNA samples from the relevant hundreds of people who it might be. Pretty expensive, with no reasonable expectation of success.
 
Emre E said:
Wood material inside the skull is of course another possibility, or maybe they were forced down and inhaled the material. These alternatives make the situation way worse for Mr. Bittrolff.
Click to expand...
Everyone, with the exception of that one CBS reporter and one citation I saw in print, says "on", not "in".
 
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