NY NY - Robert Mayer, 46, Dix Hills, 14 Jun 2013 - # 4

[McSpy]

I just think the cameras were working and that JMO
If they were not id expect LE to do a search of the scrap yard. Dogs and all!

LE would need probable cause (warrant) or the scrap yard owner's permission to do a search. Suspicions alone are not allowed for a search of someone's property. There needs to be more evidence a crime had occurred there.

JMO

 

[Eileen730]

I see talk about the scrap yard on FB.

IIRC the "let LE take care of the scrap yard" was because of talk about going to the scrap yard/surrounding area, which is private property. Average Joe Citizen can't go searching or snooping around private property. IMO that's why the admins say let LE handle the scrap yard.

I wasn't talking about going there im here in Florida and was told not to mention the scrap yard !
They then deleted ALL the posts in that conversation.
Just so ya know!

 

[Eileen730]

LE would need probable cause (warrant) or the scrap yard owner's permission to do a search. Suspicions alone are not allowed for a search of someone's property. There needs to be more evidence a crime had occurred there.

JMO

Exactly, If they had a suspicion they would have gotten a warrant.
They know he left there.
This is why I believe the cameras were working!

 

[Eileen730]

I just think this guy left Home!
He took the cowards way out but maybe thought hey after 5 yrs they can collect his insurance and pension..

 

[Eileen730]

Ok Off to the beach !

have a good day all!

 

[McSpy]

Exactly, If they had a suspicion they would have gotten a warrant.
They know he left there.
This is why I believe the cameras were working!

No, that is not what I said. I was probably not clear. LE cannot do a search because they are suspicious. They can't get a warrant on suspicion alone. They need evidence to back it up. For example, a hot tip from the scrap yard employee who witnessed the crime, or he overheard an incriminating statement from a fellow employee about the crime or he saw blood seeping from a locker in the facility, etc. Lots of examples here, but a suspicion with no evidence is not good enough for a warrant.


IMO, sometimes some of these examples are not even good enough for a warrant. They also have to thoroughly check out the source of the info before applying for the warrant.

JMO and I'm not an expert.

 

[Eileen730]

No, that is not what I said. I was probably not clear. LE cannot do a search because they are suspicious. They can't get a warrant on suspicion alone. They need evidence to back it up. For example, a hot tip from the scrap yard employee who witnessed the crime, or he overheard an incriminating statement from a fellow employee about the crime or he saw blood seeping from a locker in the facility, etc. Lots of examples here, but a suspicion with no evidence is not good enough for a warrant.


JMO

What about Probable Cause?

 

[windstorm]

I keep going back to the original facts. He went to work. His phone was pinged. He was at Arrow Scrap. His car was at the train station.

Taking out all of the other stuff - what happened to Robert???

Somebody did something with him or he did something with himself. The fact that there is no evidence of a crime, leads one to believe that he did something to himself. But, why? There would have to be a motive (on his part or somebody else's part).

And, he did a "minimal" transaction at Arrow Scrap. He didn't have his ID and I believe, without ID the transaction has to be less than $50.00. However, since he was a somewhat regular customer, they could have done a larger transaction. But, sticking with policy, he had to go to Arrow Scrap for $50.00 - what would be the point of that on such a busy weekend???

 

[Vedder]

What about Probable Cause?

From what I understand, probable cause is when LE suspects a crime has been committed, and criminal charges are considered. No probable cause, no search warrant.

 

[Eileen730]

I think he had his ID and left his wallet when he went back to the house because .....I think the receipt from the scrap yard was there with his stuff

 

[Vedder]

I keep going back to the original facts. He went to work. His phone was pinged. He was at Arrow Scrap. His car was at the train station.

Taking out all of the other stuff - what happened to Robert???

Somebody did something with him or he did something with himself. The fact that there is no evidence of a crime, leads one to believe that he did something to himself. But, why? There would have to be a motive (on his part or somebody else's part).

And, he did a "minimal" transaction at Arrow Scrap. He didn't have his ID and I believe, without ID the transaction has to be less than $50.00. However, since he was a somewhat regular customer, they could have done a larger transaction. But, sticking with policy, he had to go to Arrow Scrap for $50.00 - what would be the point of that on such a busy weekend???

BBM - a customer of Arrow posted on the FB page that the first time you go to Arrow, they copy your ID and keep it on file. According to this poster, you don't have to show your ID every time you go.

 

[windstorm]

BBM - a customer of Arrow posted on the FB page that the first time you go to Arrow, they copy your ID and keep it on file. According to this poster, you don't have to show your ID every time you go.

Okay, so, did I.M. say "minimal transaction"? There was some discussion of that previously.

 

[Vedder]

Okay, so, did I.M. say "minimal transaction"? There was some discussion of that previously.

Yes, when questioned how much the transaction was.

 

[hot cawfeee]

LE would need probable cause (warrant) or the scrap yard owner's permission to do a search. Suspicions alone are not allowed for a search of someone's property. There needs to be more evidence a crime had occurred there.

JMO

Good point McSpy--a reason for proving RM arrived and RM left are very different than a reason for proving RM arrived with an individual and/or left with an individual.

 

[windstorm]

Yes, when questioned how much the transaction was.

So, that isn't an absolute "fact" either. Dang, we don't have much at all to go on. I guess since LE doesn't have evidence of a crime, they aren't releasing many details. Or don't have many details to release.

So, he went by Arrow Scrap with his wallet/ID and then he went to the house (neighbor's camera), was there 10 minutes and then left again in the car. Car was located at the train station. So, assuming he had his wallet out at Arrow Scrap and possibly just laid it on the seat of the car when he left there, it stands to reason that he could have grabbed it and laid it on something in the garage when he got out of the car at the house. Does anybody remember if he pulled into the garage when he got home that afternoon (when the neighbor's camera filmed him)? Since wallet/ID was in garage, I am going to assume that he did pull into the garage.

What if somebody was waiting in the garage??? I don't know about anybody else, but if I'm just stopping by my house to grab something and leave again, I usually don't go through the process of using the garage. I usually just pull up, jump out of my truck, run in and back out. Is it fair to say that if somebody pulls into the garage, they are there to stay for the evening? Or at least a couple hours?

 

[CuriousAmI]

Cuoco--my concern with the scrap yard ( and I am not accusing them of anything) is that RM going there (or could have possibly gone there that June day) is info that did not come to light until a couple of weeks (IIRC) after the disappearance. I believe a co-worker told IM that RM could have possibly gone there. And other questions: was RM alone at Arrow making the transaction, did he arrive/leave in THE CAR (glitter....jazz hands--could not resist), did something happen in the parking lot---lots of questions came from the trip to Arrow.

Also, IM reported on the minimum transaction.

 

[JustyThoughts]

..." Unless there are direct quotes from the detectives, a written article can leave a little up to the reader's imagination and how the reader interprets the message. ..."

Quote was snipped and bolded by me.

Agree, I was hoping to find a reporter/writer giving a quote from a named person with LE or seeing a filmed statement from an officer or detective. It has been 2 months now! Whatever the case, there appears to be no statement from LE in any way communicating they have evidence of a crime. This seems to be one of the most consistent things reported in the case. :twocents:

I think he had his ID and left his wallet when he went back to the house because .....I think the receipt from the scrap yard was there with his stuff

BBM: May be the case; however if so it poses the question - why nearly a 2 week delay having contact or having LE contact Arrow?? As I recall, Arrow was reportedly mentioned to RM's wife as a place to contact by RM's co-workers and it was well over a week from day he went missing. If the receipt had been near the wallet it would have been noticed. I guess.

Does anybody remember if he pulled into the garage when he got home that afternoon (when the neighbor's camera filmed him)? Since wallet/ID was in garage, I am going to assume that he did pull into the garage.

Snipped and BBM.

As far as I have determined, this had not been reported in any official way. I recall the reported (by NCNY) neighbor's video caught the car on the street; but I do not recall if it was observed in the driveway or garage. There has been much discussion and theories - but I do not think it has been stated factually whether the car was in the driveway or in the garage. Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this.

 

[cluciano63]

The visit to the scrapyard for a minor exchange seems to point away from his leaving on his own, to me. Why bother? Sounds like he was just going there to grab an extra $40-50 for the weekend before heading home.

 

[McSpy]

What about Probable Cause?

Here is a link which explains "probable cause" pretty well:

http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/probable-cause/

All in all, the police need more than suspicion to do a search without permission from the property owner. It applies to cars, boats, houses, businesses, land, etc.

Just because it was the last place RM was seen doesn't mean LE has the right to search their property without permission. There has to be more than that for a Judge to sign off on a search warrant, IMO. This is what I am saying . . .

 

[windstorm]

The visit to the scrapyard for a minor exchange seems to point away from his leaving on his own, to me. Why bother? Sounds like he was just going there to grab an extra $40-50 for the weekend before heading home.

Agree! The scrap yard doesn't fit for me either. This was going to be such a busy weekend (oysters and lobster and such, remember), why take the time to stop by a scrapyard for a minimal transaction? And, if he left of his own accord, what good is, say, $50.00 going to do him? Wonder if the cash from the scrapyard was with the receipt or in his wallet?