NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[rosemadderlake]

-Posting a couple of items I came across in my historic wanderings…

bbm: Could this be true, they didn't keep records of homicides until 1975???

Staten Island Advance - January 30, 2012 at 2:24 PM,
ALBANY, N.Y. -- New York officials say there were roughly 750 homicides statewide last year, about one-third the number during the deadliest year and the least since records were kept starting in 1975.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/01/ny_state_saw_fewest_homicides.html


Imo- Some great images of New York back in the 70’s, in this short youtube video. -- I wonder if Sylvia loved Manhattan? It was exhilarating and terrifying but I loved NYC back then, all edgy and rough contrasted with the finest art and music...

New York City 1970s
New York City 1970s - YouTube

 

[Dushi]

More info to add to what we know

From PR

Sylvia was not employed
Sylvia was not in school at this time

 

[Jmoose]

Rose, thanks for bringing this forward!

BBM 1&2: JMoose, if you can cite your sources that show Biegenwald wasn't actually out until later than 9/1974, we might be able to put speculation about Biegenwald to rest. I think there should be decisive info on this somewhere. Also, Biegenwald placed his bodies just so ... people found them. No one found Sylvia, and no unidentified Biegenwald bodies await ID -- correct?

BBM 3: Fresh Kills landfill, Fresh Kills landfill ....

BBM 4: We do need more info ... SWO, did you ever get a chance to look at the local newspaper archives?

BBM 5: The silence around this is dramatic. Looking at the term "depressed" again. Do we have any information about medical history or psychiatric treatment for SL? One reason for the silence could be that the family suspected suicide. Of course, dead people can't hide their own bodies ... but there is harbor access to consider, and the sea below Tottenville.

During those fights at home with her father, maybe SL said something that made everyone suspect she ran away. For example, "If he kicks me out, you'll NEVER see me again!" This also provides an explanation for why a family member would want to find her now. The family legend may be that she left on her own.

BBM 6: Random serial death is certainly a possibility, and it wouldn't be the first time that a woman who had just had a fight with her BF was selected for that fate. But I am still not ready to let go of "disappeared" and "suicide."

I am not sure how to link the info-I will try, though. In any event, several sources say that he was indeed paroled in Oct of 1974, but not actually released until June of 1975. I am not sure if it matters, except that it seems like killers jump right back into it when they're out, and Sylvia's disappearance was less than 3 months after he got out. Also, he is suspected in at least one other murder of a person that they haven't found. His mother lived on Clove Ave., not far at all from College Ave, where the fiance's family home was-I am not convinced that she actually jumped out of the car at the K-Mart. His usual victims were dark haired women, but who's to say he wouldn't deviate? I am not stuck on this notion, though-my mind is certainly open to different scenarios, including death at the hands of her BF/F.

 

[Jmoose]

I know that anything is possible

I can't wrap my head around suicide
She would have had to hide herself really well, a lot of thought would go into a hiding place like that

As far as Harbour/sea, always a possibility but nothing AFAIK has ever been recovered.. no handbag etc.

I tend to agree about suicide-she could theoretically have gone into a dense woods and committed suicide, but I mean, it's Staten Island-I find it hard to believe that there are places that nobody has gone in 38 years. It is otherwise very difficult to hide your body in the commission of suicide. Maybe by water, but unless you are way out to sea, don't the remains and accompanying clothing and stuff usually wash up somewhere? Forgive me for being insensitive. This is lower on my radar, unless there are unidentified remains that we aren't aware of.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I think it's important to note that nowhere on the report does it say that publicity was not desired BY THE FAMILY. It appears the family WAS concerned, the mother going to report her daughter to the police after waiting the well known "24 hours" almost to the minute, the hiring of a private investigator..for a family who we can only hypothesis was middle-class (a few wealthy chefs, like Gordon Ramsey, but generally? Runs the gamut from lower blue-collar class to five star restaurant comfortable living middle class), would mean that they cared.
Imho, the "no publicity" was a judgement call by the police officer who took the report, who thought it was the story of a hysterical girl who was hiding out In her bff s dorm room complaining about men and parents. Imho, their negligence was due to believing the financee's version of events over her mother's, with her mother knowing her daughter, and her daughter's behavior well enough to know this was not typical behavior.

Imho of course, sorry for butting in

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

Indicajane – Thank you for chiming in! My first interpretation of the police report was the “Publicity: No” was an internal department classification or judgment call as you say. Something like a domestic dispute classification, and the hysterical woman runs off, runs away, etc. is perhaps quite accurate. –“Will not handle”. –Seems to make sense, here.

In thinking about the circumstances – if the fiancé wanted her disappeared, why didn’t he say – she went to the ladies room and never came back? We went shopping and I lost her and could not find her? I have been searching for her? Why would he place himself in the suspicious light of an argument? What purpose would that serve if it wasn’t true?

Bbm: You make a very good point. How close were mother and daughter? She describes her as depressed. How did this manifest in Sylvia? Was she secluded and want to be alone? Or did she reach out to her parents and friends? Did she ever threaten to do herself in?

What happened to these relationships after Sylvia’s disappearance? The toll on the family is not hard to imagine. Some have said (speculated) the fiancé was not helpful? What was the reaction of her friends, high school and college? Was the private investigator helpful?

And, I agree, of course they cared and did everything by the book in filing reports (must have been just awful), hiring a PI, and hoping, praying, looking for signs and clues, and the waiting…..

 

[rosemadderlake]

More info to add to what we know

From PR

Sylvia was not employed
Sylvia was not in school at this time

Labor Day 1975 was September 1st. --So, this was first week back for schools and most colleges... If she had a friend at college, there would have been a place to go... And definitely hide out if she wanted to...

Was she just taking a year off? Or, as someone said before, leaving school because she might have been pregnant?

 

[Dushi]

Indicajane – Thank you for chiming in! My first interpretation of the police report was the “Publicity: No” was an internal department classification or judgment call as you say. Something like a domestic dispute classification, and the hysterical woman runs off, runs away, etc. is perhaps quite accurate. –“Will not handle”. –Seems to make sense, here.

In thinking about the circumstances – if the fiancé wanted her disappeared, why didn’t he say – she went to the ladies room and never came back? We went shopping and I lost her and could not find her? I have been searching for her? Why would he place himself in the suspicious light of an argument? What purpose would that serve if it wasn’t true?
Bbm: You make a very good point. How close were mother and daughter? She describes her as depressed. How did this manifest in Sylvia? Was she secluded and want to be alone? Or did she reach out to her parents and friends? Did she ever threaten to do herself in?

What happened to these relationships after Sylvia’s disappearance? The toll on the family is not hard to imagine. Some have said (speculated) the fiancé was not helpful? What was the reaction of her friends, high school and college? Was the private investigator helpful?

And, I agree, of course they cared and did everything by the book in filing reports (must have been just awful), hiring a PI, and hoping, praying, looking for signs and clues, and the waiting…..

I have also wondered why there was mention of an argument
It was light out when she went missing as per the PR, 6pm
Someone could have witnessed her getting out of the car?
Or at least thought was given to the fact that someone saw her depart?

sometimes people just fill out a story with small facts like threw her glasses

Just thoughts..........

 

[Dushi]

Labor Day 1975 was September 1st. --So, this was first week back for schools and most colleges... If she had a friend at college, there would have been a place to go... And definitely hide out if she wanted to...

Was she just taking a year off? Or, as someone said before, leaving school because she might have been pregnant?

Its been said Mom went to Wagner to look for her, so I assume she had friends there

 

[Jmoose]

Indicajane – Thank you for chiming in! My first interpretation of the police report was the “Publicity: No” was an internal department classification or judgment call as you say. Something like a domestic dispute classification, and the hysterical woman runs off, runs away, etc. is perhaps quite accurate. –“Will not handle”. –Seems to make sense, here.

In thinking about the circumstances – if the fiancé wanted her disappeared, why didn’t he say – she went to the ladies room and never came back? We went shopping and I lost her and could not find her? I have been searching for her? Why would he place himself in the suspicious light of an argument? What purpose would that serve if it wasn’t true?

Bbm: You make a very good point. How close were mother and daughter? She describes her as depressed. How did this manifest in Sylvia? Was she secluded and want to be alone? Or did she reach out to her parents and friends? Did she ever threaten to do herself in?

What happened to these relationships after Sylvia’s disappearance? The toll on the family is not hard to imagine. Some have said (speculated) the fiancé was not helpful? What was the reaction of her friends, high school and college? Was the private investigator helpful?

And, I agree, of course they cared and did everything by the book in filing reports (must have been just awful), hiring a PI, and hoping, praying, looking for signs and clues, and the waiting…..

You make a good point about the fiance placing himself in the middle of this disapearance needlessly, if he has no knowlege of what happened to her. We see that as curious now, but maybe not then? I was still in high school when this happened, so I didn't pay all that close attention to these kinds of things, but it seemed to me that domestic disputes between engaged couples weren't looked at as closely in those days. We are more highly evolved now, or at least better informed than we used to be. I would bet that he didn't appear to be a typical "wife beater" type, and the police may have tended to take his word for what happened..."she ran off without her glasses, and I don't know where she went". Sounds fishy to me, now, but maybe at the time, the police took these statements at face value-and assumed she would eventually turn up. We are, I think, more suspicious when somebody disappears, than we used to be, and I think it's because we see so much on tv-dateline, ID, etc.

 

[Dushi]

If sylvia got out of the car as is stated in the PR, WHERE would she go?

 

[epiphany]

I think it's important to note that nowhere on the report does it say that publicity was not desired BY THE FAMILY. It appears the family WAS concerned, the mother going to report her daughter to the police after waiting the well known "24 hours" almost to the minute, the hiring of a private investigator..for a family who we can only hypothesis was middle-class (a few wealthy chefs, like Gordon Ramsey, but generally? Runs the gamut from lower blue-collar class to five star restaurant comfortable living middle class), would mean that they cared.
Imho, the "no publicity" was a judgement call by the police officer who took the report, who thought it was the story of a hysterical girl who was hiding out In her bff s dorm room complaining about men and parents. Imho, their negligence was due to believing the financee's version of events over her mother's, with her mother knowing her daughter, and her daughter's behavior well enough to know this was not typical behavior.

Imho of course, sorry for butting in

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

Respectfully BBM

Hi Indica, just using your post as a jumping-off point.

Even though a private investigator may have been hired, at the moment we have no verified source, nor local insider information to confirm when this may have occurred, and what was learned by any PI.

Re friends living in dorm rooms...I wonder whether or not Wagner College had off-campus apartment buildings used as dorms in 1975, situated on or near Grymes Hill, in addition to traditional on-campus dorms.

I would think LE would have spoken with these friends when Sylvia disappeared.

I would also think that the photo below, used on the Missing Person Poster, would have been one of the most recent photos of Sylvia available prior to her disappearance. It appears to be a candid shot, possibly taken outside in the evening. Note dress, lighting, etc.

And again, on Missing Person Poster available below: Missing Sunday, September 7, 1975 (not Saturday, Sept. 6, 1975).

I am stuck on this. Was information learned that Sylvia was last seen by someone, and hours later than originally thought? Is this newly released information, recently discovered information or simply an error that ought to be corrected?

PDF of image: https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/poster/7574

 

[Dushi]

I am trying to make sense out of "there was an argument and she threw her glasses" per PR

Is this a busy area, where it was supposed to take place?
Was it busy at 6pm on a Sat night?

 

[Dushi]

Could it be Sept 7th was used because that is the date of the official missing persons report?

The Namus link says missing since, not last seen

 

[epiphany]

Could it be Sept 7th was used because that is the date of the official missing persons report?

The Namus link says missing since, not last seen

NamUs links states Last Seen: September 7, 1975

NamUs link describes Circumstances: movie w/fiance occurred on September 6, 1975

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/7574/157

 

[Dushi]

NamUs links states Last Seen: September 7, 1975

NamUs links describe Circumstances: movie w/fiance occurred on September 6, 1975

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/7574/157

Thanks

The one above said Missing since

 

[rosemadderlake]

Respectfully BBM

Hi Indica, just using your post as a jumping-off point.

Even though a private investigator may have been hired, at the moment we have no verified source, nor local insider information to confirm when this may have occurred, and what was learned by any PI.

Re friends living in dorm rooms...I wonder whether or not Wagner College had off-campus apartment buildings used as dorms in 1975, situated on or near Grymes Hill, in addition to traditional on-campus dorms.

I would think LE would have spoken with these friends when Sylvia disappeared.

I would also think that the photo below, used on the Missing Person Poster, would have been one of the most recent photos of Sylvia available prior to her disappearance. It appears to be a candid shot, possibly taken outside in the evening. Note dress, lighting, etc.

And again, on Missing Person Poster available below: Missing Sunday, September 7, 1975 (not Saturday, Sept. 6, 1975).

I am stuck on this. Was information learned that Sylvia was last seen by someone, and hours later than originally thought? Is this newly released information, recently discovered information or simply an error that ought to be corrected?

PDF of image: https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/poster/7574

bbm: I wonder about this too but Detective says: "will not handle" on PR. Still, there has to be more than one page in that police file....

Re: picture - imo -that looks like it was a candid photo taken at a club, or wedding, or party event. - She looks beautiful and I want to say she is wearing a Halston top. -Very stylish.

 

[Odyssey]

You make a good point about the fiance placing himself in the middle of this disapearance needlessly, if he has no knowlege of what happened to her. We see that as curious now, but maybe not then? I was still in high school when this happened, so I didn't pay all that close attention to these kinds of things, but it seemed to me that domestic disputes between engaged couples weren't looked at as closely in those days. We are more highly evolved now, or at least better informed than we used to be. I would bet that he didn't appear to be a typical "wife beater" type, and the police may have tended to take his word for what happened..."she ran off without her glasses, and I don't know where she went". Sounds fishy to me, now, but maybe at the time, the police took these statements at face value-and assumed she would eventually turn up. We are, I think, more suspicious when somebody disappears, than we used to be, and I think it's because we see so much on tv-dateline, ID, etc.

bbm

Especially since it was stated that she "ran from the car".

You don't run from a car if you're angry, you run if you're scared.
JMO

 

[epiphany]

If sylvia got out of the car as is stated in the PR, WHERE would she go?

If she ran out of the car after a big argument with her fiance, she may have sought out a girlfriend/s...at a dorm, at an apartment, at a local place the GFs frequented. I would have done that, but I don't know what Sylvia would have typically done after such an argument with her fiance. Using the 6/6:30 PM hour last seen by BF, I certainly would not have headed back home (in this case, her parents' home) at that hour on a Saturday night.

 

[Dushi]

If she ran out of the car after a big argument with her fiance, she may have sought out a girlfriend/s...at a dorm, at an apartment, at a local place they frequented. I would have done that, but I don't know what Sylvia would have typically done after such an argument with her fiance.

Thats what I would have done also

But it doesn't seem that she did as I have not heard that anyone came forward as of yet

 

[epiphany]

Thats what I would have done also

But it doesn't seem that she did as I have not heard that anyone came forward as of yet

It's just me...I'm not ready to dismiss that someone else did not see her later until the 2010 NamUs report reflects that she was last seen on the 6th.