NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[Jmoose]

Jamaking me hungry! I've been juicing. I'm drooling at the pate! Made some liver-n-onions this week and I thought they were great. I eat one meal and juice the other two. Lost about 15 pounds in 6 weeks. Whoo hoo! I'm shopping the back of the closet.

That must be so hard! Keep up the good work!

 

[Jmoose]

Raised Catholic

Wait-who was raised Catholic? Why did I think Sylvia was Jewish?

 

[Jmoose]

I'll be all ears! What time is the broadcast?

I believe it's 8:00pm eastern time

 

[rosemadderlake]

That would be a BIG NO!

MMQC: Re: abortion - this makes sense with what we know about the events and lack of LE questions to those who knew SL, in 1975. Was the abortion mentioned to the cold case detective in 2010? Does LE know this piece?

 

[epiphany]

MMQC: Re: abortion - this makes sense with what we know about the events and lack of LE questions to those who knew SL, in 1975. Was the abortion mentioned to the cold case detective in 2010? Does LE know this piece?

And when did remaining family discover there was another serious BF prior to this fiancee/engagement?

When did remaining family discover info about the termination?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Raised Catholic

So, father was Catholic I am guessing.

MMQC: Do you know if Sylvia ever discussed the abortion with her BF/F? I am guessing maybe not if he was a practicing Catholic? Maybe yes if more liberal?

It could be a bigger piece than perhaps realized at first because of our engrained beliefs. Especially if his family was very Catholic with all the traditional expectations?

And I am just wondering out loud here, if this was a piece that the BF/F found out from another source, what perception would he have of SL? If he was liberal, he may understand her not wanting to share a painful part of her past and be ok with it. --But if not.... then maybe not.

 

[epiphany]

We were really good at keeping our mouths shut. Me, now? Not so much.

My gut tells me other men were interested in SL. Perhaps, it was mutual. Perhaps, it was not.

My gut tells me that was likely...whether SL wanted them interested in her or not.

That's not unusual with attractive women, engaged or not (married or not--doesn't prevent attraction).

Were past BFs or any other male interests or males interested in her (mutual feelings or not)...Were their names provided to family, or to LE when SL disappeared?

This could be motive for ANY male, or for a huge argument that evening.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Wait-who was raised Catholic? Why did I think Sylvia was Jewish?

I did too -- just reread those thread pages this afternoon in fact when I was looking for the info about the CP update. Remember ASWDH gave two answers to my Q confirming that she was a survivor. Fisrt this one, then this one. I think ASWDH was being sarcastic in the second one for some reason. At the end of it all, I am not sure what the truth is about the camp survivor story. I don't really get why, but I think the meaning of the second linked post is, "I'll say it's so if it will help." Not sure.

My sense is that this part is true, but the part about EL being in the camps is not. Whether the rest of the family died as a result of interment is unclear to me as well.

Was her family originally Jewish? Not sure. In any case, it wasn't unusual for Jewish people to convert after WWII to separate themselves from the travesty. Heck, it's not unusual today for one spouse to convert to the other spouse's religion, right? Maybe the father, JL, was Catholic. I do believe that someone with the religious values the of the BF/F (which I am assuming are Catholic) could be upset by learning SL had a Jewish background (obvi not saying it would be right), but the sense I get from ASWDH's posts is that he thinks it's irrelevant.

 

[rosemadderlake]

My gut tells me other men were interested in SL. Perhaps, it was mutual. Perhaps, it was not.

My gut tells me that was likely...whether SL wanted them interested in her or not.

That's not unusual with attractive women, engaged or not (married or not--doesn't prevent attraction).

Were past BFs or any other male interests or males interested in her (mutual feelings or not)...Were their names provided to family, or to LE when SL disappeared?

This could be motive for ANY male, or for a huge argument that evening.

bbm: Does the BF/F have a brother?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I did too -- just reread those thread pages this afternoon in fact when I was looking for the info about the CP update. Remember ASWDH gave two answers to my Q confirming that she was a survivor. Fisrt this one, then this one. I think ASWDH was being sarcastic in the second one for some reason. At the end of it all, I am not sure what the truth is about the camp survivor story. I don't really get why, but I think the meaning of the second linked post is, "I'll say it's so if it will help." Not sure.

My sense is that this part is true, but the part about EL being in the camps is not. Whether the rest of the family died as a result of interment is unclear to me as well.

Was her family originally Jewish? It wasn't unusual for Jewish people to convert after WWII to separate themselves from the travesty. Heck, it's not unusual today for one spouse to convert to the other spouse's religion, right? Maybe the father, JL, was Catholic. I do believe that someone with the religious values the of the BF/F (which I am assuming are Catholic) could be upset by learning SL had a Jewish background (obvi not saying it would be right), but the sense I get from ASWDH's posts is that he thinks it's irrelevant.

You raise an interesting point about how those questions were answered.

bbm: some tattooed numbers meant the individual was not to be sent to the camps.

 

[gajonka]

Note to File: MEGA - SLEUTHs [a/k/a heavy hitters)



RE: ^T's Show



In order to maximize multiple moving sets of needs, we have received a green-light to our qualification report - we have qualified for T's True Crime on Sunday, June 16, 2013. The Deerhunter and the Gajonka will be in tow - please tune in and share with your friends. This is a fantastic opportunity for us to re-energize Sylvia's case.

The format will be Q+A - and we will update current efforts - and offer a glimpse into the action plan being rolled out. Remember, none of this would be possible ( getting an approval to qualify for T's show is a big deal) without your contributions - all of you - to the Thread. I cannot put to words how grateful I am. \\
I have inserted the timeline Going By My Gut prepped with everyone's support - please offer currency if needed.

Here's a new piece of info:



Rose Madder Lake asked a great question: In the aftermath of her disappearance, was there any contact between BF's parents and Sylvia's parents? (paraphrased from memory).

It appears, after some due dili, that all attempts to contact the parental units ( let's remember , at that age, parental involvement would be expected, or one would expect it to be normal and acceptable).... but all attempts to reach out and form some type of contact - communication - cooperation - obtain, perhaps some type of propensity to offer help.... all of it had been dismissed,,,, with radio silence being the prevailing object...the results of these efforts.
COLD!!!!!!!

\


Here is the timeline of events:

September 6, 1975

Sat. afternoon-4-ish: MMQC & SL spend afternoon together. MMQC: “Mall shopping running errands etc. Dropped her off at home so she could get ready for date with BF/F. That was the last time I saw her.”

Sat. 5 or 6 PM: BF/F picks SL up at home for their date. ASWDeerHunter: “Charles came over to the residents around 5pm to see a movie Sylvia at a cinema about 20 min away.” Alternate time of “6 PM” added as per PR.

5/6-10 PM: Window of uncertainty. Date details unverified. Mall? Movie? Fight? Bus stop?

Sat. 10 PM: BF/F shows up at MMQC’s house, tells her about fight, asks her to pick SL up from the bus stop. MMQC: “I did not know exact time of DATE. What I do know is that BF/F did say after movie they had fight she got out of the car and would take the bus home.” and “He did say they had a fight and she stormed out of the car by the mall. He seemed angry.”

10-11 PM: MMQC & her father drive around the mall area, trying to find SL, but they do not find her. MMQC: “We guessed that the bus came in the time between.”

10:30 PM: BF/F drives to SL’s residence and explains what happened. ASWDeerHunter: “Charles returned to the house approx. 10:30 stating that during an argument Sylvia had thrown her glasses against the dash board of the car and ran off.” (MMQC: “I truly don't remember BF/F EVER going to parents home that night.” and re EL: “She never mentioned to me that BF/F ever came by.”)

10:45 PM-Midnight (?): EL searches for SL by car. ASWDeerHunter: “Eva then got in the car and drove around the Staten Island Mall, but didn’t see her.”

11 PM (?): MMQC talks with her parents and decides not to alarm SL’s family with her concerns about SL -- “...did not want to worry SL's parents or raise a red flag if not warrented.” She calls under the guise of needing to talk to SL for personal reasons. “I called SL home stating I needed to talk to my friend. Saying that I had an issue that I had to talk to my best friend about. No matter what time.”

Around Midnight (?): EL calls LE. ASWDeerHunter: “Eva Lwowski called the 122pct and tried to report a missing person but could not because see wasn't missing for 24 hrs. yet.” and “... it was after Eva returned from the Mall that she called the 122pct.”

2 AM-7 AM (?): EL calls MMQC. MMQC: “Then after several hours passed SL's mother called my home asking WHAT HAPPENED? SL did not return home. It was then I told her about BF/F coming to my home telling me about the fight etc.” and “She called me asking what was up as SL never came home and it was very early the next morning.”

Sun. AM: MMQC & EL search Wagner, local area. “I took her to the Wagner campus then in the morning and cruised around at our local haunts to see if she was there or if anyone had seen her.”

Sun. 6 PM: EL reports her missing to LE (time as per PR). ASWDeerhunter: “The following day, Eva went to 122 pct to make a formal missing persons report and the police basically said she was over 21 and didn’t really spend to much time or resources in locating her.” MMQC: “LE informed her that SL was an adult and was not considered missing until missing for more than 48 hours as I recall. Then they were to bring current photo and a list of what she was wearing etc. Then LE would contact them at their home to follow up and investigate.”

Mon-Tues. (?): MMQC and EL stay in touch. “For a day or two. I was in contact with SL's mother about this.”

Wed. (?): MMQC & father request help from ADA. “My parents lived next door to an ADA. I then asked my dad to come with me to ask ADA to do something. It was then someone finally contacted parents from LE.”

UNSPECIFIED: MMQC calls BF/F about SL. “I called BF/F to see if SL contacted him. He was VERY RUDE to me on phone stating he had been made a sucker of he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off, and don't call again. His mother was having a breakdown about it and not to call again.”

“Days and weeks” after SL disappears: ASWDeerHunter: “Charles wouldn't answer and more questions concerning Sylvia.”

1-2 Weeks after disappearance: ASWDeerHunter: “A week or two later the family hired a privet investigator and am not sure of the outcome of that investigation except a different version of her running off came out.”

Just before Xmas '75: MMQC calls BF/F. MMQC: “I last spoke to BF/F just before Xmas '75. Told him Fifi died (SL's pet poodle) and he said (insert my real name) who. I reminded BF/F who I was and he cursed me and said don't ever call here again ...”

Sometime in 1979-84: MMQC hears about ring when she meets a fellow SI’er: Convo turns to SL, fellow SI’er tells MMQC that knows BF/F through his brother/band and claims BF/F is in possession of the engagement ring he gave Sl.

2010: Cold Case contacts MMQC. “Other than the cold case Det. Savage calling me in 2010 that I never spoke to LE.”

 

[MMQC]

Wait-who was raised Catholic? Why did I think Sylvia was Jewish?

Polish and German

 

[MMQC]

MMQC: Re: abortion - this makes sense with what we know about the events and lack of LE questions to those who knew SL, in 1975. Was the abortion mentioned to the cold case detective in 2010? Does LE know this piece?

I can't remember if I mentioned that piece of the puzzle.

 

[MMQC]

So, father was Catholic I am guessing.

MMQC: Do you know if Sylvia ever discussed the abortion with her BF/F? I am guessing maybe not if he was a practicing Catholic? Maybe yes if more liberal?

It could be a bigger piece than perhaps realized at first because of our engrained beliefs. Especially if his family was very Catholic with all the traditional expectations?

And I am just wondering out loud here, if this was a piece that the BF/F found out from another source, what perception would he have of SL? If he was liberal, he may understand her not wanting to share a painful part of her past and be ok with it. --But if not.... then maybe not.

Wonder away! I can't really say. Don't know.

 

[MMQC]

I believe it's 8:00pm eastern time

TY, A Duh! When I log on it says when Tricia's program is on....It was right in front of my nose!

 

[MMQC]

And when did remaining family discover there was another serious BF prior to this fiancee/engagement?

When did remaining family discover info about the termination?

Can't say for sure about when but from a conversation we had I did mention it. It was OH SO HARD doing so. I felt like I had betrayed a confidence that I swore to keep. I still feel guilty about doing so. I'm no judge. We are judged by our maker. God gives us free will. We can choose what to do with our lives. What I choose now is to try to be a better person. Give of myself when I can and try to be a good example to others. Coming to a fork in the road in my life. Good or not so good are the signs in front of me and my turn signals are not on yet. OH MY, I'm rambling again! Sorry.

 

[Jmoose]

Can't say for sure about when but from a conversation we had I did mention it. It was OH SO HARD doing so. I felt like I had betrayed a confidence that I swore to keep. I still feel guilty about doing so. I'm no judge. We are judged by our maker. God gives us free will. We can choose what to do with our lives. What I choose now is to try to be a better person. Give of myself when I can and try to be a good example to others. Coming to a fork in the road in my life. Good or not so good are the signs in front of me and my turn signals are not on yet. OH MY, I'm rambling again! Sorry.

Telling the family long after the event, and after her disappearance isn't judging-this is a piece of the puzzle that the family would need-try not to feel guilty about it. (I know it's difficult not to, though)

 

[MMQC]

Telling the family long after the event, and after her disappearance isn't judging-this is a piece of the puzzle that the family would need-try not to feel guilty about it. (I know it's difficult not to, though)

Guilt is a result of being raised by an Italian Catholic mother. It's a part of my DNA.

It's also hard for me to accept kindness from others.

I'll be listening in tonight! Good luck Deerhunter! Maybe this will shake some trees.

 

[Jmoose]

Guilt is a result of being raised by an Italian Catholic mother. It's a part of my DNA.

It's also hard for me to accept kindness from others.

I'll be listening in tonight! Good luck Deerhunter! Maybe this will shake some trees.

Lol-seems like many of us have mothers who raise us to feel guilty! I miss mine today...in any event, you did the right, and only thing you could do.

 

[Jmoose]

Guilt is a result of being raised by an Italian Catholic mother. It's a part of my DNA.

It's also hard for me to accept kindness from others.

I'll be listening in tonight! Good luck Deerhunter! Maybe this will shake some trees.

Are we actually going to be on next week (June 16th)? Or are we on tonight, too?