NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[Jmoose]

That was in 72 right? Wonder if their relationship ended mutually because of this or was it because he was deported somewhere else because of the Navy? Wonder if he was a hometown boy or someone she met in college, maybe in music class?

Abortion wasn't legal until after the decision in January of 1973...not that this is the most important piece of info...but the timing is very interesting. And she must have started dating BF/F immediately! I am assuming that this was a legal abortion, though

 

[alliemay]

Abortion wasn't legal until 1973...not that this is the most important piece of info...but the timing is very interesting. And she must have started dating BF/F immediately! I am assuming that this was a legal abortion, though

Yes you are right, not the most important part but if this happened in 1972 it was a definite reason (as well as other reasons) to keep it a secret since it was not legal yet. If her parents didn't know about this she had to probably rely on other people to help her find out which doctor's took the risk of doing this type of procedure. Maybe the Navy BF's family knew someone? Did she go in the front door as if it was just a regular doctor's office? Did she have any complications afterwards? Did she have any fears afterwards that she might have trouble getting pregnant in the future? MMQC, do you remember her talking about it afterwards?

 

[epiphany]

I think it's possible that, simply because BF/F told the family and MMQC that she bolted from the car, and they had no particular reason to doubt him, that this is why everyone expected Sylvia to return. I don't get the sense that any of them knew him very well, and so, true or not, they believed him (and, it may be true...)

It would really help to know what the couple fought about, I think. This might well help to explain what happened to her.

BBM

I would think he had to provide an explanation of what the argument was about to NYPD, as well as to SL's Mother.

That info appears to have been withheld from the public. May very well have been contributing factor to Publicity desired: None. MOO

 

[epiphany]

Recall MMQC stating occurred in early Spring of 1973.

 

[Jmoose]

Recall MMQC stating occurred in early Spring of 1973.

That's what I had in my head, but wasn't sure I had that right. Good thing for me that you are paying attention!

 

[epiphany]

Not convinced a pregnancy (when she went missing) would have been dismissed quickly by both NYPD and Mother when she disappeared (Even though Mother may not have verbalized that thought aloud to others.).

 

[GoingByMyGut]

That was in 72 right? Wonder if their relationship ended mutually because of this or was it because he was deported somewhere else because of the Navy? Wonder if he was a hometown boy or someone she met in college, maybe in music class?

Here's MMQC's response to post 8 of this thread, which answers some of our questions about this, including mine above about age when he was at Wagner (BBM):

I'll try to answer parragraph by parragraph here...
1. Yes, more toward the early spring '73. As for another pregnancy, I seriously doubt it.

2. The length of time seems about right.

3. I did not know him. He was an upper classman and joined the military. I don't know if she ever kept in touch with him. The day of the termination was to my knowledge the last time she saw him. Not to forget. It was a time for sexual exploration. Now what the women of the 70's went through in late teens early 20's kids today do at 12. I blush when I hear conversations of kids when they think no one is listening.

4. I can't say weather she ever told BF/F about past. To me past is past.

 

[Jmoose]

Not convinced a pregnancy (when she went missing) would have been dismissed quickly by both NYPD and Mother when she disappeared (Even though Mother may not have verbalized that thought to others.).

I'm not sure what you mean-are you referrring to the pregnancy that we know she terminated, or a potential second one, with BF/F?

 

[Jmoose]

Not convinced a pregnancy (when she went missing) would have been dismissed quickly by both NYPD and Mother when she disappeared (Even though Mother may not have verbalized that thought aloud to others.).

Sorry-I re-read your post. You are referring to a second pregnancy, at the time of her disappearance

 

[epiphany]

I'm not sure what you mean-are you referrring to the pregnancy that we know she terminated, or a potential second one, with BF/F?

A second one at time of her disappearance.

 

[epiphany]

I would think given their ages, an engagement, the times, etc...would have been among the first thoughts of NYPD and Mother as to one possible explanation as to why she went missing and/or an argument occurred.

Would have been asked of Mother and of BF/F:

Do you know whether or not they are sexually active, and to BF/F: are you sexually intimate w/ea other.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Recall MMQC stating occurred in early Spring of 1973.

Yes, and that the Navy guy was an upper classman, at Wagner I presume. MMQC: do you recall if he grew up on SI?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I think MMQC stated that SL's BF/F was not at the pool party with the Wagner group and MMQC.

Wondering whether there was any male in attendance (in hindsight) that showed an interest in SL or vice versa.

MMQC: Do you recall why the BF/F was not at the pool party?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Abortion wasn't legal until after the decision in January of 1973...not that this is the most important piece of info...but the timing is very interesting. And she must have started dating BF/F immediately! I am assuming that this was a legal abortion, though

BBM: Must have. And I think somewhere MMQC confirmed that. I couldn't find it, just this partial post by MMQC in thread 1, which talks about MMQC and SL going to summer concerts together in 73 to see SL's future BF/F perform:

"The summer of 1973 I remember going with her to the outdoor concerts because BF/F was playing in them. At the time he was only BF not BF/F. That is when my BF/F, just BF at the time met him. Thought SL's BF looked down his nose at him as he was not a college man. Below his standards so to speak. That is when my BF decided not to double date. Outdoor concerts yes as there were lots of people around so not direct contact for a prolonged period of time. I remember bringing SL to those concerts. She would sit and swoon. If swoon is the right word? "

 

[alliemay]

Ok so the navy BF was older. Thanks for finding that GBMG.....I keep going back to the "no publicity", what did Eva know or speculate?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Not convinced a pregnancy (when she went missing) would have been dismissed quickly by both NYPD and Mother when she disappeared (Even though Mother may not have verbalized that thought aloud to others.).

How big a deal would this have been? They were engaged. Just move up the date? Happened all the time ... Are you suggesting pregnancy as a motive for murder? -- Unless you are suggesting it might not have been his, thus the Qs about whether they were sexually active?

A second pregnancy is certainly possible, I'm just not sure it's plausible. I keep going back to her being a bio major (i.e., she understands conception risk) and to thinking that once she had an abortion, she'd never want to make that mistake again.

 

[epiphany]

How big a deal would this have been? They were engaged. Just move up the date? Happened all the time ... Are you suggesting pregnancy as a motive for murder? -- Unless you are suggesting it might not have been his, thus the Qs about whether they were sexually active?

A second pregnancy is certainly possible, I'm just not sure it's plausible. I keep going back to her being a bio major (i.e., she understands conception risk) and to thinking that once she had an abortion, she'd never want to make that mistake again.

Suggesting pregnancy as one of the possible motives for the argument that evening, but not necessarily any higher up there than another male, learning about an indiscretion on her part (or the perception that she had committed one), or discovering the details of her prior relationship (earlier termination).

IF a second pregnancy scenario>No, not from another. With BF/F.

In this case, I lean towards argument that evening was related to any of the above, rather than which movie to see, their future wedding plans, prior argument with her father, etc.

 

[Jmoose]

How big a deal would this have been? They were engaged. Just move up the date? Happened all the time ... Are you suggesting pregnancy as a motive for murder? -- Unless you are suggesting it might not have been his, thus the Qs about whether they were sexually active?

A second pregnancy is certainly possible, I'm just not sure it's plausible. I keep going back to her being a bio major (i.e., she understands conception risk) and to thinking that once she had an abortion, she'd never want to make that mistake again.

Or...a second pregnancy that WAS his, that Sylvia again isn't ready for-abortion, for him, is out of the question, but not for her. I actually don't believe she was pregnant again at the time she disappeared, mostly because the two here who knew her best are discounting the possibility, although it isn't impossible. I wish we coud find out the name of the private investigator who was hired by the Lwowskis-not that this particular piece of info was part of what he discovered. I wonder if he actually was able to dig up anything, or if he just took their money?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I would think given their ages, an engagement, the times, etc...would have been among the first thoughts of NYPD and Mother as to one possible explanation as to why she went missing and/or an argument occurred.

Would have been asked of Mother and of BF/F:

Do you know whether or not they are sexually active, and to BF/F: are you sexually intimate w/ea other.

---Jumping off Epiphany's post-

MMQC: I think that we all withheld a lot from our parents back in the 70's but I keep coming back to EL's reaction that night, flying out of the house to go look for her daughter. Makes me think she knew something wasn't right, or that her daughter was distraught about something and was panicked for her.

IMO - this was no ordinary movie date and no ordinary argument. If this was a couple that argued, and made up, and professed their crazy love for each other - then a parent's reaction might different? Like, oh she'll go to so and so's house, call later, etc...

So I am guessing that it is very possible that EL knew that her daughter was distressed about something beforehand. Mothers have a way of knowing these things... Whatever the BF/F may have said about the argument perhaps it confirmed something she knew or suspected?

So, to echo jmoose and the others; the argument is a key piece to the puzzle. So, I guess I am wondering if you don't know directly what the argument was about, was there a rumor? I mean what did people think?

And, yes, BF/F's mother knew a lot more than anyone else. And, we only know that the BF/F said she was having a breakdown...

 

[epiphany]

---Jumping off Epiphany's post-

MMQC: I think that we all withheld a lot from our parents back in the 70's but I keep coming back to EL's reaction that night, flying out of the house to go look for her daughter. Makes me think she knew something wasn't right, or that her daughter was distraught about something and was panicked for her.

IMO - this was no ordinary movie date and no ordinary argument. If this was a couple that argued, and made up, and professed their crazy love for each other - then a parent's reaction might different? Like, oh she'll go to so and so's house, call later, etc...

So I am guessing that it is very possible that EL knew that her daughter was distressed about something beforehand. Mother's have a way of knowing these things... Whatever the BF/F may have said about the argument perhaps it confirmed something she knew or suspected?

So, to echo jmoose and the others; the argument is a key piece to the puzzle. So, I guess I am wondering if you don't know directly what the argument was about, was there a rumor? I mean what did people think?

And, yes, BF/F's mother knew a lot more than anyone else. And, we only know that the BF/F said she was having a breakdown...

Agree with everything except BBM.

MO of Mother having a breakdown line is it was an expression he used to describe that his Mother was very distraught that SL went missing and her son was the last to see her. The equivalent of My mother's freaking out...crying, emotional, etc.

Posters of Italian heritage have attributed other behaviors as seemingly more common to same ancestry...why would this be any different.